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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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rossendales - unpaid Council Tax. **Now back with Council**


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Hi folks.

 

I have had the misfortune to deal with Rossendales due to unpaid Council Tax.

 

The tax is for this current year, and they have slapped £90 fees on top, I signed a walking possession on my car, and offered them £100 per month.

 

THey have sent me a letter today saying they have agreed £92.00 per week, which I can't pay.

 

Any ideas on the best course of action?

 

Thanks

 

Jason

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  • 6 months later...

I have put this in an existing thread and am starting a new one.

 

I could not keep up with my council tax this year. The bailiff arrived, I sat in his car and he levied distress on my vehicle.

 

 

I rang the council, who took it out of the bailiff's hands and agreed a payment plan, but unfortunately, could not keep up with it.

 

The bailiffs are now back, acting on the original documentation, and have charged me over £240.00 on top of what I owe.

 

The council are refusing to take money from me. They tell me to complain to the bailiff about the charges; nothing to do with them. He has not been in my house, but has asigned walking possession on my car.

 

Question

 

I have an amount of money in my account, but if I pay the full amount, we don't eat or heat the house, simple as that.

 

Can I dispute the charges? Can the bailiffs chase me for charges? Can the council refuse to take my money?

 

Thanks in advance

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Call the national debtline 0808 808 4000 its free, as it was done so long ago and the bailiff never acted on it then perhaps it could be seen as being abandoned by the bailiff...if this is the case then the bailiff would need a new walking posession.

 

In the meantime hide your car.

 

Let us know how you get on.

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Call the national debtline 0808 808 4000 its free, as it was done so long ago and the bailiff never acted on it then perhaps it could be seen as being abandoned by the bailiff...if this is the case then the bailiff would need a new walking posession.

 

In the meantime hide your car.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Thanks

 

Have justpaid the council direct in full online, thus circumnavigating their crap about not being able to pay them.

 

What is the law on Bailiff charges? Can they chase me for them? I have a receipt from the council now saying the year is paid for in full. If I had underpaid Rossendales, they would have taken their charges first.

 

What is the best course of action, as I am assuming the bailiff is going to be naffed off that I have manouvered around him?

 

Thanks

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I take it you live in England? wales fees are slightly less.

 

The Council Tax Administration & Enforcement (Amendment) 1993. Si 773 amended by Si 295 0f 1998, Si 768 of 2003 and Si 3395 of 2006

 

First visit fee: £24.50 This is for a first attendance to levy but where a levy does not takes place. (For example where you are not in)

 

The bailiff can charge a levy fee if they levy but he cannot charge both amounts on the same occasion.

 

Second visit fee: £18.00 Despite any further visits, the bailiff can only charge for a maximum of 2 visits.

 

Levy Fee: Under this heading the bailiff can charge £24.50 for the first £100, and 4% on the next £400 etc.

 

First £100 £24.50

Next £400 @ 4%

Remaining £100 @ 2.5%

 

Walking posession order £12

For other fees see the link below:

 

This is the link to the nationaldebtline website, which shows the complete fees a bailiff can charge whilst collecting council tax are at the bottom of the page.

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.u k/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=02_bai liffs_and_council_tax

 

 

You need to give it a few days then double check that the bill is definately paid, as the bailiff fees would normally be deducted first.

 

If I was you I would call the national debtline, my question is that if the bill was returned to the council then the bailiff technically has to start all over again with the process.i.e the previous levy wouldnt stand etc and if you have paid the bill in full before the bailiff has visited then you owe the bailiff nothing.

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No bailiffs fees will have been deducted if you paid the council direct on line.

I believe the only way the bailiffs can get there fees now that you have paid the council direct is to take you to the small claims court.

 

if they turn up they will still try to scare you into paying them, just give them a copy of the receipt and tell them to get off your property before you call the police.

Ignore any threats they give you they no longer have any power now you have paid.

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  • 1 month later...

I paid my council tax bill from under the noses of Rossendales last month direct to the council online.

 

The bailiff rang me threatening fire storm petulance and brimstone amongst other things.

 

The very fact that my wife would not be able to deal with these numpties if they turned up

and I wasnt here forced me to pay him £130 towards the charges, when they had actually charged me £205.

I told him that was what I considered to be fair based on the price of van hire locally.

 

I now come home today to find a letter asking for £75 threatening me with a van and removal if I dont pay.

 

two questions

 

i. What colour is the sky on their particular chosen planet?

 

ii. Do any of you great people have a letter that will send them away?

 

Many thanks

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I paid my council tax bill from under the noses of Rossendales last month direct to the council online.

 

The bailiff rang me threatening fire storm petulance and brimstone amongst other things. The very fact that my wife would not be able to deal with these numpties if they turned up and I wasnt here forced me to pay him £130 towards the charges, when they had actually charged me £205. I told him that was what I considered to be fair based on the price of van hire locally.

 

I now come home today to find a letter asking for £75 threatening me with a van and removal if I dont pay.

 

two questions

 

i. What colour is the sky on their particular chosen planet?

 

ii. Do any of you great people have a letter that will send them away?

 

Many thanks

]

 

FIRST QUESTION: Have you ever let them into your home, threby allowing them to 'levy', i.e. make a list of your goods?

 

Second, have you ever signed a Walking Possession Order?

 

If you haven't done either of these, then there's probably nothing they can do, especially if you find out that they have tried to overcharge you, which bailiffs often do -so write to them, and get a breakdown of their charges.and take it from there.

 

For a more detailed answer, you need to tell us whether they have ever set foot in your home and whether you have signed a Walking Possession Order.

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I signed a walking possession order on my car. This was in July last year. The council took it back on after I contacted them, only for me to fall behind again.

 

He has not been in my property, and I was told by someone who used to be a bailiff that they are not allowed to chase you for their charges, so this came as a bit of a surprise!

 

(I've sold the car by the way-thought it was dead and buried when the council took the debt back)

 

Thank you again

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I signed a walking possession order on my car. This was in July last year. The council took it back on after I contacted them

 

Well that means that they had abandoned the goods

 

He has not been in my property

 

That means that they can't come in now.

 

I was told by someone who used to be a bailiff that they are not allowed to chase you for their charges

 

That's absolutely true, but unfortunately it doesn't ever stop them trying -- and that's because they are playing the numbers game -- there will be some people who will pay them exactly what they say they should pay them.

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There is no magic letter that will make them go away.

The bailiffs will only leave you alone if they think that further action will gain them nothing, and they will form that opinion based on the kind of contact they have with you.

 

That's why we use template letters, and pick them up on every mistake that they are bound to make.

And that's also why when bailiffs are likely to be about, that we have to behave in a very special way. Parking cars away from the house, keeping doors and windows closed, not opening the door to anyone unless we know who they are, checking who's outside before leaving the house.

 

It all sounds very difficult, but it's not... after a while it becomes a habit, all that you do is develop habits to keep your stuff safe.

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Rossendales have recently tried to fleece me with unlawful fees.

 

Go over EVERYTHING with a fine toothed comb and work out exactly what fees can be charged. My bailiff 'friend' got backed into a corner when I made it clear he was acting unlawfully and was not going to get away with it.

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  • 1 year later...

Thank you to everyone who helped me fight off GE repossession....one last problem, which I need some clarification on please.

 

My wife and I seperated 18 months ago, and in all the stress and strain, coupled with depression and counselling she is going through,

Council Tax went unpaid. It is in her name alone.

 

Rossendales have their hands on it, and have pushed various letters through the door.

They levied on MY car, which my ex had borrowed for three days to ferry kids around

 

I have an authority with the council to deal with her account, because of her illness.

The council refused to take it back, who have given a deadline of tomorrow to find £1060, which of course is impossible.

They say enforcement will be carried out tomorrow if cash is not received, and gave me a meeting place and time.

 

Here's what I need clear in my mind.

 

i. Is it true that they are not allowed to force entry if they have not been in the property?

ii. Does the levy on my car change the above?

iii. They appear to have added about £500 in fees and charges. Is this correct?

iv. I have read that bailiffs code warns them against approaching vulnerable people.

The definition for vuilnerable people includes single parents and people with illnesses.

Given that my ex is receiving counselling for years of systematic parental abuse and is on anti-depressants, thats about as vulnerable as it gets.

I also know if they turn up when she is there, she will fold like wet cardboard because of her state of mind.

How do I get the relevant people to listen to me?

 

I have tried to raise the money, but it isnt happening. Please help me make sense of this

 

Thank you

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Hi there

just tell them to Foxtrot Oscar -- ZERO rights of entry.

 

edited Actually they CANNOT legally levy ANYTHING until they've made the requisite two visits so if the car is on your property you don't even have to admit them if they want their clamp back.

 

I HATE these people --but they don't like it "when the Natives start getting restless".

 

NEVER give in to these people -- eventually the council WILL have to take the debt back in any case.

 

NEVER EVER EVER pay bailiff's -- especially Rossendales.

 

Cheers

jimbo

Edited by IdaInFife
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Here's what I need clear in my mind.

 

i. Is it true that they are not allowed to force entry if they have not been in the property? They cannot force entry if they have not been into the property.

 

ii. Does the levy on my car change the above? If they have levied your car, it is classed as an unlawful levy and cannot charge a levy fee for this. You need to send proof of ownership to the bailiff company with a letter stating this.

iii. They appear to have added about £500 in fees and charges. Is this correct?

No certainly not correct at all, all they can charge at this time is £42.50 for two visits. Cannot charge for a levy fee as the levy was unlawful.

iv. I have read that bailiffs code warns them against approaching vulnerable people. The definition for vuilnerable people includes single parents and people with illnesses. Given that my ex is receiving counselling for years of systematic parental abuse and is on anti-depressants, thats about as vulnerable as it gets. I also know if they turn up when she is there, she will fold like wet cardboard because of her state of mind. How do I get the relevant people to listen to me?

You need to get straight back on to the council, speak to the 'Manager' at the benefits and revenues department. Under the national standards of enforcement agents your wife is clearly vulnerable. read here http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10

 

I have tried to raise the money, but it isnt happening. Please help me make sense of this

 

Thank you

You can also get in touch with your local councillor who may be able to help you. Your wife does not have to deal with these people at all. she can start making payments to the LO by way of making payments online via their website. Or if your wife is on benefits she can request that they take out payments from her income support/JSA etc. It may also help if you can contact her councillor/doctor to get a letter written on her behalf stating her illness.

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thank you, I'm on it as we speak.

 

The bailiff rang me today, and when told there was no way he could have such a large amount of money, he got nasty.

 

I told him my mortgage is on a suspended eviction order and I have no choice but pay it,

 

he said "I have plenty of choices, and am now going to use them against your wife"

 

Lucky I didnt go to meet him,

 

Thank you again for your help, this site is an absolute godsend

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Because of what he has said I would now write a formal complaint to the Chief Executive of the council with regards to threatening behavour. Please remember if and when he turns up tell your wife NOT to answer the door. Keep all windows and doors locked. She does not have to communicate with them at all !!

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Because of what he has said I would now write a formal complaint to the Chief Executive of the council with regards to threatening behavour. Please remember if and when he turns up tell your wife NOT to answer the door. Keep all windows and doors locked. She does not have to communicate with them at all !!

 

Make also a complaint to Local Govt Ombudsman -- the Local Council will then have to explain WHAT HAPPENED, what control they have in place to ensure their agents behave ACCORDING TO THE LAW and what steps they are taking to ensure this doesn't happen again.

 

This information has to be posted PUBLICLY as well --Councils HATE that more than anything else.

 

You WILL have had to make a complaint to the CEO of the council first so do that and THEN complain to the Local Govt Ombudsman.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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