Urgent advice leaving local authority housing

[stu007]

Hi Rich44

 

This is shocking behaviour of your housing association oh I would so love you to name but that not important right now.

 

The issue here is you have am email from then stating that they were not going to contiune court action then

today you recieve that phone call from HA stating they are continuing you dont need to submit defence as its to recover cost.

 

Who the hell are they kidding as you only have there word that its only costs its not in writing so they can deny that conversation on the phone.

 

Wish I new the HA to do some digging but thats your choice and understand fully if you dont want to name.

 

I would seriously err caution here, if you dont put a defence in and dont attend they win and you dont know what they will win until after.

 

You really need to seek urgent advice on this from CAB or Shelter.

 

Your other option is to attend at the housing office and demand to speak to a SENIOR HOUSING MANAGER not a housing officer you want a manager and tell them your concerns about the handling of this case be very apologetic but show them a copy of the email and tell them exactly the phone conversation and who it was that called and your concerns.

 

During this please dont mention the rent setting as that is a seperate issue and this is more important as you need to know exactly where you stand.

 

some questions I would ask are:

 

1. Why has the HA sent an Email dated xx/xx/xx confirming the HA is not continuing with court action then on 18/10/2012 telephoned to state the HA were continuing with court action to recover costs but that I do not need to submit a defence.

2. Why are the HA informing tenants that they do not need to submit a defence and is this the correct procedure that the HA is following and if so you would like a copy of that policy and procedure.

3. Does the HA have a welfare officer and if so why have i not been referred to that welfare officer, who is that welfare officer and can an appointment be arranged.

[Rich44]

Well they have said they will put what was said tonight into writing so we'll see if they follow through on that one.

 

We'll try to get hold of Shelter/CAB tomorrow - well the wife will i'll be at work but the point is the same.

 

I'm incredibly disappointed about this to be told unequivocally that no further action is being taken to this with 6 working days notice is a joke. I'm not going to say anything to the HA immediately as I want to see if they put in writing (via email) what was said tonight first as I believe that will be interesting to have as evidence.

 

I'm very concerned that people are giving this advice to tenants seems farcical to me.

 

Once I have that in writing I will go back to them with those questions.

 

I'm not moaning about the rent that was more of an observation regarding the rent increases and as you say it's not a part of this issue, aside from the fact of putting the rent up so much has made it hard to pay.

 

On the plus side I got my job regraded backdated to Sept 1st it's not a huge amount but it all helps.

[45002]

Hi Rich44

I would so love you to name

 

Disgruntled_Employee

[Rich44]

Disgruntled_Employee

 

Friends laptop didn't realise it was logged in as someone else until posts started disappearing. Bit worked up over everything tbh

 

Nothing nefarious just my mistake

[Rich44]

Had an email from the person we spoke to yesterday it doesn't say anything about not seeking possession, i've emailed back to ask about what was said last night so we'll see what comes back from that.

[Rich44]

Ok I now have it in writing that: They are NOT seeking possesson We do NOT need to attend court We do NOT need to file court papers Wife is phoning Shelter this morning to get further advice. To recap: Housing officer wrote no further action to be taken court action ceased dated 15/10/12 Senior housing officer (line manager of our housing officer) phoned last night 18/10/12 17:00 Court action will continue, no longer seeking possession just costs, no need to attend, no need to file a defence Above confirmed via 2 emails this morning

[45002]

Ok I now have it in writing that: They are NOT seeking possession We do NOT need to attend court We do NOT need to file court papers Wife is phoning Shelter this morning to get further advice. To recap: Housing officer wrote no further action to be taken court action ceased dated 15/10/12 Senior housing officer (line manager of our housing officer) phoned last night 18/10/12 17:00 Court action will continue, no longer seeking possession just costs, no need to attend, no need to file a defense Above confirmed via 2 emails this morning

 

Do not take the word of Any housing officers that you dont need to file a defense,speak to CAB or a Solicitor.........

[Rich44]

We are doing later this morning wife is calling CAB/shelter as soon as she's home. What has really thrown a spanner in the works is the notice now, we had it in writing that there was to be no further action taken so we didn't until now get any advice, hope there's going to be enough time to get an appt to see these people. When I return the defense to I include copies of these emails as part of any defense do you think or not? I know will take legal advice as well but just asking

[45002]

We are doing later this morning wife is calling CAB/shelter as soon as she's home. What has really thrown a spanner in the works is the notice now, we had it in writing that there was to be no further action taken so we didn't until now get any advice, hope there's going to be enough time to get an appt to see these people. When I return the defense to I include copies of these emails as part of any defense do you think or not? I know will take legal advice as well but just asking

 

Without seeing any documents no can really advise you on CAG

 

That's why you need to speak or see CAB or a Solicitor and show them All the documents you have and do not take advice from any Housing officer...

 

Good luck....

[Rich44]

Yup will do I was just meaning in principle whether those emails are something to present to the court or whether that forms part of an official complaint to the HA? Housing officer and her line manager (who is the one named on the court documents) have emails confirming this from both of them. Waiting to hear from wife on how she's got on with CAB now

[Lea_HTH]

First, you can stop panicking. The route you take now is really simple.

 

You go along to the court on the day of the hearing taking with you the two confirmations you have of no further court action. You inform the judge that you have cleared the arrears in full. The judge will ask the HA to confirm they have been paid, and when - and will then strike out the case with no costs awarded. The worst the judge will do is reserve costs, but he will NOT award costs, so the HA are wasting their time going in to court to ask for them. In the normal course of a private tenancy agreement, costs are usually part of the contract, so will automatically be payable, but that is not the case with social landlords, only the court can award them their costs, and with no arrears, and no reason for the court action to proceed, there is nothing more the HA can do without the court's permission - and that permission just will not be forthcoming. (I say this with the proviso that if you repeatedly run up arrears and pay them off when court action is threatened or proceeded with, then the judge may take a different view and award costs - you have not suggested this is the case though.)

 

Do attend the hearing, take your evidence with you, plus run up a schedule of your own costs as a litigant in person, e.g. time researching, time off work, travel etc. to deal with this unexpected court hearing, and present that to the judge and request that you be awarded costs against the HA for your time. Dependent on the judge, you may just be awarded costs which will make the HA think twice before being so stupid in future.

[45002]

First, you can stop panicking. The route you take now is really simple.

 

 

Would have been much more easier to say let CAB/shelter or solicitor see all the documents and let them advise the OP than what you posted

Edited October 19, 2012 by 45002

[Lea_HTH]

Would have been much more easier to say let CAB/shelter or solicitor see all the documents and let them advise the OP than what you posted

 

You mean as opposed to all the extraneous information that doesn't help at all?

 

OP: it really is as straightforward as I said above. I should know, I deal with cases like yours in court every week.

[Rich44]

You mean as opposed to all the extraneous information that doesn't help at all?

 

OP: it really is as straightforward as I said above. I should know, I deal with cases like yours in court every week.

 

Thanks. Have spoken to Shelter they basically said come to see us unfortunately nearest session is booked until mid November next nearest is 30 miles away.

 

Phoned up legal helpline from home insurance. Really helpful they suggested speaking to the court see if anything has been cancelled or not.

 

Spoke to court nothing cancelled as far as they are concerned its seeking possession still.

 

Gone back to HA asked for most senior housing manager, all gone home but they found a senior housing person who was very helpful asked for copies of all the emails and is going to come back to us on Monday. In the meantime we'll try to get to CAB or shelter next week at a drop in session.

 

Court person said file a defence online this weekend include the emails they have sent and everything that has happened.

 

Other than that there's not much we can do now its the weekend but feeling better about this mess.

 

Thanks to everyone who has replied really appreciate the suggestions of what'd likely ho happen its very reassuring

[stu007]

Hi Rich

 

I really cant believe the Housing Association had the cheek to put that in writing you dont need to attend court I am sure the MP you saw would be shocked to read that advice given by a housing association.

 

As advised by others please do put a defence in and attend court as Im sure the judge wont be amussed when he reads that letter and the advice about not attending court.

 

As well as stopping the court action Formal Complaint to Housing Association on there actions especially informing tenants they do not need to attend court proceedings.

 

Due to this you require further clarification as to why Housing Officers are giving out this information and the copies of the policy and procedure which gives your Housing Officers this authority.

 

I also request a copy of your Rent Arrears Policy and Procedure.

[Rich44]

Well this is interesting just logged on to the Possession Claim website to file the defence and see the following:

 

Claim has been withdrawn or Struck Out. No actions available

 

 

• 19-10-2012 Court Telephone Message
  
• 08-10-2012 Court Notice Of Adjourned/Restored Hearing
  
• 08-10-2012 Claimant Claim Withdrawn Pre Judgment
  
• 05-10-2012 Court Statement/Pleading Filed
  
• 01-10-2012 Court Miscellaneous
  
• 01-10-2012 Court Hearing
  
• 01-10-2012 Claimant Claim Created
  

Well this is interesting as we were originally told it was cancelled on the phone on 5th October which would tally with the above so what has happened to cause the staff to phone up again to say court action was back on???

Will find out more tomorrow.

[Rich44]

Still no further forward. No one knows what's going on.

 

The court have no clue why the above says withdrawn they say it isn't

 

Haven't managed to see cab or shelter as they're too busy will try again at drop in this week.

 

can't file a defence online for above reason will now have to post and hope they're OK with that despite it being way after the 14 days.

 

Might get my MP involved today see if that helps

 

Still making phone calls.....

.

[Rich44]

Spoken to them again, they're adamant that they have to go to court to get costs awarded (although they did admit that the judge might not award them anyway). We're going to file a defence and we're going to attend.

[mariner51]

Why not write down your defence statement and take it to Court in person. on apparent date of hearing?

 

OK,. hearing may have been cancelled & you waste a day - or it may not be cancelled, HA don't expect you to attend or prepared, but you do and are. HA on back foot. Time well spent IMO

[Rich44]

Court papers now all done and in the post tomorrow along with copies of all emails and payment receipts, all marked up for the court

[stu007]

Hi Rich44

 

Thats good you have put a defence in as the housing association will not be expecting that and I hope it goes ok.

 

What I would also consider doing but after the court stuffs all sorted is making a Formal Complaint in writing to the Chief Executive of the Housing Association concerned as there actions are disgraceful as they are meant to be helping people in circumstances like your to maintain your tenancy.

 

But I am still appauled at there advice especially in writing to tell you that you dont need to put a defence in to a court proceeding to me that is the sting in the tail for the housing association as what policy or procedure gives them the right to give such advice.

 

Good Luck

[Rich44]

Yup already got the letter ready to go off to the HA instigating formal complaints procedure. Funny how they have said to us today that they are going to have to change their advice/procedures after this. Seriously are we the first people to have gone through this situation?

 

Will keep this thread updated with what happens. I feel quite prepared now so lets get it over and done with...

 

Thanks

[Rich44]

Well well well. Went to court thus morning despite being away on holiday, came back especially arranged childcare. We went to sign in with the court usher and...... there's no case listed.

 

Usher goes off to investigate finds another member of the HA staff and asks her she phones the lady dealing with our case who is just walking in the building.

 

After a chat with her we go down to the court office and she's told by a rather annoyed supervisor/manager that the case was withdrawn by the HA on 8th Oct AND he said (looking at us) this happens a LOT with thus HA. The HA have no individual logins to the court system so they can't trace it back.

 

On the plus side the HA rep was so embarrassed by the whole thing that she's not going to reschedule to go for costs after all.

 

My thoughts are given the circumstances I don't believe they would have gotten them anyway.

 

Formal complaint will be instigated next week over this but it appears to be a huge mess!

 

Anyone have any further thoughts on this, whole thing seems a joke to me

[stu007]

Hi Rich44

 

Complete miss-management, poor communication, wasting tenants money (court costs and staff time) and defendants costs for court attendance as directed by HA who had actually withdrawn proceeding on 8th Oct 2012 and finally you were given completely conflicting information by the HA the most serious.

 

1. That the HA is continuing proceedings and that you do not have to attend court to defend the claim - you require to know exactly which policy/procedure/legislation/act of parliment states this information given to tenants.

 

2. That the HA Communication was at time not just inaccurate but completely incorrect and the proof lie in being informed court proceedings comtinuing, given court date, attending court to be informed by court that proceeding were dropped by HA on 8th Oct 2012 with HA officer present.

 

You really want to get then on this shocking behaviour of a HA remember Arrears policy, Customer Care Standards Policy and where was there duty of care of assisting tenants to maintain there tenancy.

 

I am sure your local MP wont be impressed

 

Could you please PM the name of HA and i can do a bit of digging for info for you but up to you

 

this link to the Housing Ombudsman Service may be of use: http://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/ (this is for England Only)

 

This PDF as well:

Edited October 31, 2012 by stu007

[stu007]

Hi Rich44

 

Couple of Questions:

 

1. Were you provided with a copy of the "Residents Handbook" (available on website under - Publication - Residents Handbook)?

 

2. Did they as per that Handbook take early action and advise you of any Arrears on Your Account?

 

3. Did they as per that Handbook support you so you can pay your rent, and offer you the support of a Debt Management Officer to give advice and support?

 

4. Have they followed their "Payment Procedure" as per that Handbook - (Ask for a copy of that Procedure)

 

Tenancy Policy - Approved 26th June 2012 - (available on website under - Housing Services - Your Tenancy Agreement)

 

1. As Per the Tenancy Policy - Section 1.12 Ending Tenancies, part 1.12.2 were you given the appropriate housing options advice and assistance?

 

Dealing with Debt

 

1. Were you given a copy of this leaflet? (available on website under - rents & charges - managing your money)

 

Customer Care and Feedback Policy - (Available on website under - contact (first part of housings name - feedback and complaints)

 

1. Please download this policy and have a good read but think of what happened from beginning till now and as you read it think did they actually follow this policy and mark each part. (when I read through it there were numerous parts you could use against them)

 

 

Another part for you to have a look at on the website is:

 

Home - Charity Requirements and Guidance - Charity Governance, Have a good read you well see why.

 

Now remember if you are going to use these documents in a complaint that you exactly name them and even better provide them with a copy with your complaint and if not request that they provide you with a copy of the document whether it be policy/procedure/leaflets/legislation etc.

Edited November 2, 2012 by stu007