Dispute with garage

[dave882]

Can anyone advise me?

 

I drive a MG ZT, the 2.5 ltr model with the V6 engine. I bought it when Rover MG folded due to the large discount. It has been very reliable with minimal service costs at my local garage but it started overheating. The believed diagnostic was the thermostat but due to the possible head gasget problem my local garage was reluctant to do the work, especially as they rang my main dealer first who told them not to change the thermostat in case it was the engine.

 

I telephoned the main dealer and was quoted £28 for the thermostat and about £100 or so to fit. I stopped using the car but then made a short journey in which it overheated so I intructed the RAC to take it directly to the main dealer. I was told a diagnostic check would be made and would cost the hourly rate of about £78. I agreed and was told by 'phone that the engine was fine but the price for the thermostat was £60 and fitting £306 with vat to be added. (4.5 hrs work). I disputed this price but was over the barrel in that I could not really collect the car. I asked how much it would cost with a cam belt change as it is now six years old and was quoted £1255. I told the garage that the work had to be done but that I would dispute the cost. The engine was being taken apart for the thermostat so they may as well replace the cam/timing belt. I have been told independantly that it is a large job on this car.

 

The end result was that the thermostat was confirmed as £24.51 and the bill was reduced to £900 in full. The final bill is for 13.5 hours labour at £68 plus vat totalling on the bill £765.96. The parts are quoted price by price but the final bill is the £900 (vat of £134.04).

 

I believe that the garage has known that the car was brought in the RAC and increased the prices. I do know that this year I was quoted £750 for a full service and £1000 for a full service and cam belt change. My own garage charged £160 for a full service.

 

Does anyone know if 13.5 hrs labour for the two jobs appear correct? I note on their notes that the 4.5 hrs for the thermostat was separate to the 1 hr diagnostic charge but they were quick enough to drop the price when I argued.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Bookworm
personal info removed

[buzby]

They charge what they charge. You could just as easily have taken it to a franchised repairer (like Fast-Fit / ExpressFit) and their hourly charge is HALF that of the main dealer. I really doubt they'd massage the prices simply because you were over a barrell - they make their money purely on the hourly cost and the mark-up on parts, you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. For the work you outlined, I would expect the cost of a non-dealership to be around £650 including OEM parts, £520 for non-OEM.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Hello

 

I think the labour hours are about right for this type of work on your particular car.

 

I had an MGF and spent money like water on it.

 

Get rid as soon as possible as MG's are cash cows.

[dave882]

Buzby, W.A.Y.,

 

Thank you for your advice. If the labour is about right then I will probably accept the bill as due. I do not recognise Fast Fit/Express Fit and being a non mechanic cannot quote OEM or non OEM in full but accept that it probably means standard parts or not.

 

I will keep an eye out in future for these garages should anything happen as I do not really want to change the vehicle now. It is paid for and, apart from this, has not been a money pit. I do accept, however, that after a certain age problems can start so I will keep an eye on it.

 

Once again thank you for your help.

[buzby]

As the vehicle gets older (and the standard warranty expires) it is often worthwhile to look at these non-franchised garages as you can save considerably on the manpower charges (£30 instead of £80) whilst still getting the same level of technical expertise, and most importantly, professional servicing!

[Conniff]

If I am correct, you have the Honda V6 as fitted to the Rover 800 series. If that is correct then you have been well and truely taken to the cleaners.

 

Thermostat change on the Honda V6 is remove of air intake hose between filter and throttle body, undo jubilee clip on the rad hose to thermostat housing and push aside the hose, undo two bolts holding the thermostat housing in place and remove. Take out the thermostat, clean up the area and housing, renew the gasket, plug in new stat replace cover and tighten the two housing bolts, reconnect the water hose and air intake hose.

 

One hour at most, for somone who has done it regulary, 30-45 mins.

 

Can you just confirm that it is the Honda donk?

 

As for the cam belt, was it a kit that included pullies etc?

 

I have been told independantly that it is a large job on this car.

 

I take it you are refering to the cambelt in the above?

 

P.S. The job is not timed, it is taken from a schedule giving timings so even if it took 20 mins, you would still be charged the 13.5 hours.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Conniff

[The Plough]

The engine was being taken apart for the thermostat

 

That sounds a bit drastic, did the grage tell you that?

[buzby]

Aren't you demolishing your own argument? As you correctly point out, you are charged the hours the manufacturer says it will take to do the job, whether it does or it doesn't. (The overlooked scenario is when a mechanic who hasn't done it before takes twice as long, the garage cannot charge his time if it is over the specified schedule, also in many cases time is rounded to up to the hour. This may also inclue a 'courtesy' car wash by the apprentice.

 

This is how franchised dealerships make their money - which is why the non-franchised workshops are doing very nicely on the back of their 'inflexibility'/

 

I'm unfamiliar with the Rover, but on my Espace the pollen filter (a lump of cardboard with wings) costs £65 plus VAT, and takes 1 hour. My ExpressFit charges £30 plus VAT for an OEM replacement, and fitted it free (it took them 2 minutes, only because for the 1st minute the bonnet latch stuck).

[Conniff]

Yeh I suppose I have contradicted myself, but went back to check that is was a main dealer after I had written the post so thought I had better add the P.S. to clarify things.

 

There are a lot of very good independent garages out there and no reason at all to use the dealer except for purchasing a new car and the first free oil change that goes with a new car.

 

An independent would probably have charged £40-50 including parts for the stat change, says it all really.

[dave882]

Thank you for your help. I do not think that it is a Honda engine but I will have to check. I have just looked now and it just says V6 24 Quad cam but nothing else so I will make further checks in the morning.

 

The bill stated; replace thermostat and replenish antifreeze replace timing belt followed by

 

13.50 @ 68 + vat £765.96

Belt-engine timing (2) £37.26 each plus vat

Gasget-inlet manifold (1) £4.39

Gasget-inlet manifold (1) £4.39

Hose-breather-cam cvr (1) £13.99

Thermostat-engine (1) £24.51

Pipe assy-coolant (1) £3.67

Pipe assy-coolant (1) £8.11

Clip-plastic (2) £2.97 each

Anti freeze 1 ltr (3) £3.56 each

 

£765.96

vat £134.04

 

Total £900.00

 

Normally I do not use the main dealer apart from when the fuel cut out about 18 months ago. Apparently there was to be a recall just before MG Rover folded as the fuel pump becomes detached in the tank. A clip was to be fitted. It cost me just over £100 but at the same time my windscreen wash was a bit weak. They fixed this under warranty which I did not even know I had. I normally use a local garage which is a situated in a country barn and does a good job.

[dave882]

AS for taken apart for the thermostat, it was the impression I had when they told me that it would be 4.5 hours labour

[Bookworm]

Overheating and unexpected stuff, Dave? It's not been your week, has it?

[Janet-M]

if I have read this right ... you was given one price on the phone and then once you got it towed in they shot the price up but by then you had no choice but to get it fixed by them ? is that your main gripe ?

Edited July 21, 2008 by Janet-M
tired and talking rubbish

[dave882]

Yes

[dave882]

I think that the work did not take 4.5 hours. I called and spoke to a mechanic and he appeared rather sheepish as to the charge and put me through to service/sales. I am making a few more enquiries at the moment.

[dave882]

I have since spoken to my garage, the engine is a Honda but the job is awkward. That was their reply.

[Rob S]

Dave,

 

I think you'll find the engine in your ZT is the Rover KV6 V6 engine. If you want to find more specialised advice about the car then MG-Rover.org is a very good site to post about the queries you have regarding the amount of time to carry out the work. Just do a Google search on it and you should find it. It is free to register and full of useful info.

 

I would also ignore the comment made earlier in this thread about MG's being cash cows.

[majik]

Hi

 

Not sure if this will help but i have recently changed a cam belt on my partners car and also the thermostat. (took me 4.5 hours for both)

 

I am not a mechanic or have i had any experiance doing this, i just followed a haynes manual. Parts for the car were about (£50 including : Cam belt,Tensioner,anti-freeze,Thermostat and a tube of uinstant gasket.)

 

I also did a few other jobs within the 4.5 hours so a garage at most should only be charging that.

 

Could try giving NVS a call (Google them stands for National Vehicle Servicing) they are alike a mobile car servicing company that can do all sorts. I kow they charged me £169 + vat for a cam belt change on my 106 if it helps.

[dave882]

Thank you for your help with these answers. I will be making further enquiries.

[dave882]

I did wonder about the engine. I have, over the years, owned about 10 Rover/MG vehicles (including Austin Morris, etc) and note that my second car, a Rover 25 has 'Rover' across the engine.

[legalpickle]

Unless you received a written quote previously a claim wouldn't stand up.

 

I do know that some garages charge more expensive prices when RAC or AA bring the car in as they claim it's 'emergency' service. If you bring it in yourself you may be able to haggle, and if you send it to a smaller garage or franchised garage you will get better prices.

 

Unless the time is excessive [like 40 hours for something that was originally estimated at 4 hours] proving that you were overcharged is going to be a nightmare. Even if you received an independent report after the event, it would be costly. You would also not be guaranteed a refund of that cost.

 

This is one of those cases where I would say let it swing and learn for the future. I hate these muppets as much as the next guy on the street but your sanity will be non-existent if you try a case like this.