Tilly V mortgage express repo

[gizmo111]

Once they are in possession, the depreciating asset becomes their responsibility.

 

But the final shortfall still becomes Tilly's responsibility.

[Thailand]

Hiya Hun:)

 

Thanks thai, you want to start that bee buzzing, let me know if you need post code,either way im going to have a shortfall, so i may as well drop the price and

do my best to to sell it myself.Times ticking.

 

I went to your party remember Can't miss that car in the drive.

 

I'll have a good look round later and see how your offer compares. I hope you gave the estate agent a rollocking for advertising your property as detached!

 

20th Jun 2008

• Subtitle changed: from '3 bedroom detached' to '3 bedroom terraced'
  

[**Tilly**]

But the final shortfall still becomes Tilly's responsibility.

 

yep the way things stand at the moment its all mine

[**Tilly**]

I went to your party remember Can't miss that car in the drive.

 

 

I'll have a good look round later and see how your offer compares. I hope you gave the estate agent a rollocking for advertising your property as detached!

 

 

yes i did don,t tell me they still havn't changed it

20th Jun 2008

• Subtitle changed: from '3 bedroom detached' to '3 bedroom terraced'
  

 

Cheers hun mwahhh xx

[**Tilly**]

But the final shortfall still becomes Tilly's responsibility.

 

The more i think about the more i get annoyed, i can feel a rant coming on,

[**Tilly**]

Ok rant over cat booted into orbit, sooo saved being cagbotted

[**Tilly**]

The shortfall is going to get bigger the more i drop the price

and this is now worrying the hell out me how i am going to pay it,

sheeesh what a mess

[gizmo111]

The shortfall is going to get bigger the more i drop the price

and this is now worrying the hell out me how i am going to pay it,

sheeesh what a mess

 

No point worrying about it - wait and see how much it is and then consider your options then.

[**Tilly**]

I know your right Giz just having one of my moments

[honey5]

how do they go about "clawing" back any shortfall, as obviously it couldnt be paid all in one go

 

would an order be made to pay back a certain amount on a monthly basis

 

keep your chin up tills xxx;)

 

 

honey x

[gizmo111]

how do they go about "clawing" back any shortfall, as obviously it couldnt be paid all in one go

 

would an order be made to pay back a certain amount on a monthly basis

 

keep your chin up tills xxx;)

 

 

honey x

 

It's just another unsecured debt honey - and should be treated as such. There are options, bankruptcy being one of them, and if the amount is high, probably the most likely in Tilly's case. But at the moment the amount is not known and probably won't be for some months.

[honey5]

thanks for the reply, was something that was niggling me

 

honey x

[TideTurner]

The point I was trying to make is that, at present, liability for any decrease lies with Tills. Once possession is taken by ME, any depreciation will be their responsibility. You should make a note of the value (possibly get a valuation immediately prior to possession), and use this information to defend any claim for a shortfall. If they repossess and then fail to sell for 12 months, and the property halves in value, the depreciation within those 12 months must be their loss, surely, as they had possession whist it depreciated.

 

eg.

Property value at possession £160,000

Property value at sale £80,000

Loss AFTER repo £80,000

 

Where TITLE has been transferred, surely any depreciation/appreciation is the responsibility of the asset owner. Also, look out for a monetary judgement, they will have to return to Court to obtain this AFTER the sale. I suspect they will be very sneaky about obtaining your new address too.

 

Make sure ALL charges applied to the account are justified fully.

 

May need to check the T&C's on this

Edited June 20, 2008 by TideTurner
Clarification

[gizmo111]

The difference between what he asset raises and what Tilly owes is her responsibility, the only way to challenge the amount would be if ME sold the property way below market value with no reasonable explanation.

Just because ME take possesion of the property the debt doesnt stop at that day. Interest, legal fees etc will still be the responsibility of the borrower. This is about debt, not title to the property.

 

To simplify, if you sent your credit card back to the credit company you would still owe the amount borrowed and interest accruing, until you paid it off, even though you no longer have the card.

 

I understand this is a joint mortgage and in theory both parties could be chased for the next 12 years, but if it is appropriate for Tilly to go bankrupt, then she will be clear of the debt, and her husband will either have to do the same or make arrrangements to pay it off.

 

As I have said until the house is sold, by either Tilly or ME we do not now what the shortfall will be and it is pointless speculating or worrying until the final figures are known.

[**Tilly**]

Thats made it clearer thanks giz and tide

 

One question, or maybe 2 , like you said Giz it is a joint mortgage, now if the other xpart of the joint mortgage cant say it sticks in my throat is not working or likely too he will not be able to pay toward shortfall.i know he wont go bankrupt

so is that likely to leave me with total shortfall,

[gizmo111]

They will chase whoever looks likely to be able to pay, either one or both.

 

At some point he will have to face up to the reality, he can't ignore it, and as said before if it makes sense for you to bankrupt at the time, then he will be the only one they can chase. It will then be up to him to assess his options. With no assets, and little income, he would foolish not to consider BR. But that's all the future not now, and we don't know what that will bring.

[**Tilly**]

Right until then

[TideTurner]

The difference between what he asset raises and what Tilly owes is her responsibility, the only way to challenge the amount would be if ME sold the property way below market value with no reasonable explanation.

Just because ME take possesion of the property the debt doesnt stop at that day. Interest, legal fees etc will still be the responsibility of the borrower. This is about debt, not title to the property.

 

To simplify, if you sent your credit card back to the credit company you would still owe the amount borrowed and interest accruing, until you paid it off, even though you no longer have the card.

 

I understand this is a joint mortgage and in theory both parties could be chased for the next 12 years, but if it is appropriate for Tilly to go bankrupt, then she will be clear of the debt, and her husband will either have to do the same or make arrrangements to pay it off.

 

As I have said until the house is sold, by either Tilly or ME we do not now what the shortfall will be and it is pointless speculating or worrying until the final figures are known.

 

Gizmo, I am not disputing the shortfall, interest or legal charges. Unless there is a specific clause in the contract which covers shortfall following repossession, they will be responsible for any depreciation. Else, they could simply keep hold of the property for 12 months at Tillys expense.

 

However, if they do so, they will run the risk of not having the debt paid, and Tills going bankrupt.

 

They will be fully aware that there is a downturn in the market. They also have a duty to obtain the best possible price for the property. If they repossess now and the property remains empty, they are contributing to the depreciation without Tills receiving any benefit from the property.

 

The only way they can fulfil their duty in a depreciating market is to have a ready buyer, which is becoming more and more difficult.

 

By repossessing now they would deliberately cause damage, as they could not achieve the best price possible.

 

Times this by 1000 (they are only underwriters) and they have a serious problem.

 

No doubt the vultures will be circling waiting for the opportunity to increase their portfolio.

 

Agreed, the shortfall debt will not disappear, however, the interest will cease following any monetary judgement.

 

Tide

[Goldlady]

The house down the road from us was repossessed about three months ago and it is still for sale. So maybe they are hedging their bets - in which case if you can make some sort of payments you might buy a bit more time.

[MilkTrayMan]

The difference between what he asset raises and what Tilly owes is her responsibility, the only way to challenge the amount would be if ME sold the property way below market value with no reasonable explanation.

Methinks it is a responsibility equally shared between the OP + her husband gizmo111...

 

 

 

 

Just because ME take possesion of the property the debt doesnt stop at that day. Interest, legal fees etc will still be the responsibility of the borrower. This is about debt, not title to the property.

Agreed.

But the 12yrs in which the Mortgagae Lender has to recover any debt begins from when the OP last makes ANY acknowledgement of the debt...i.e. A £1 token payment, NOT from when the Possession Order was granted.

 

Given that each + EVERY payment to the Mortgage Lender re-starts the 12yr period + that a bankrupcy pettion is seeming more likey every day the OP's house (...which is now owned by the Mortgage Lender btw) remains unsold, ANY further payment by the OP would appear to be 'Dead Money'??...

 

Would it be MORE advantagous to the OP, if NO further payments on the Mortgage were made + the monies kept to go towards future Bond/Deposit/Rent payments on private rental property??...

 

If the answer to the above is YES, the longer the OP remains in the current property, until an Eviction Notice is served, the longer the OP is able to enjoy RENT FREE accomodation, IF bankrupcy is sought + obtained??...

 

 

 

To simplify, if you sent your credit card back to the credit company you would still owe the amount borrowed and interest accruing, until you paid it off, even though you no longer have the card.

Methinks an over simplification gizmo111.

A Credit Card is just a token + remains the property of the Credit Card Company even though it has been issued to the Card Holder.

A house becomes the property of the Mortgage Lender ONLY when a Possession Order is obtained.

 

 

 

 

As I have said until the house is sold, by either Tilly or ME we do not now what the shortfall will be and it is pointless speculating or worrying until the final figures are known.

Methinks that it IS important for the OP, that ALL options are explored for ALL scenarios + for EACH stage.

 

To clarify...

 

A Joint Mortgage is held by the OP + her husband.

The Mortgage is of a normal Repayment type.

Arrears have accrued on the Mortgage.

(...3months arrears allows the Mortgage Lender to instigate Court proceedings to recover possession btw)

The OP's husband has suffered a disabilitaing accident + is unlikely to be able to regain the level of income that he previously enjoyed through employment.

The OP alone can NOT afford to service the current Mortgage, let alone be in a position to make arrangements to enter into an agreement to 'catch up' with the arrears.

 

The above would signify the OP would either have to Re-mortgage or consider 'downsizing'.

The OP has stated that the level of her current Mortgage means that there is NO equity.

Therefore selling the house is the ONLY feasible option.

 

The Mortgage Lender has ALREADY obtained an intially undefended Possession Order.

IMHO, to try to have the Possession Order suspended serves NO purpose to the OP...

The OP would just be delaying the enevitable given her expected income levels.

The general housing market is in freefall + has yet to reach its bottom.

It would appear prudent, for the OP, to discharge her obligation to the debt asap.

 

It has been acknowledged that there going to be a shortfall regardless of who sells the OP's house.

If the Mortgage Lender does it, the shortfall would be expected to be ££zillions.

If the OP retains the right to be able to sell her house the shortfall COULD be limited.

 

If the shortfall is limited to such a minimal extent, the OP's financial position could be recovered, over a period of time, without the need to enter into bankrupcy.

 

Methinks the OP would be best advised by realistic options about what her 'cut-off' point should be.

If the OP were to enter into bankrupcy, ££zillions as opposed to ££thousands is neither here nor there IMHO.

 

The following questions also NEED to be addressed...

 

1/ The level of the OP's other debts + what type of debt they are.

2/ What level of repayment the OP realistically feels that she could comfortably afford to repay to recover her financial position if bankruptcy was NOT to be considered.

(...This enables the 'cut-off' point to be fixed)

3/ How bankrupcy could be successfully achieved.

4/ What being a bankrupt person would actually mean for the OP, during the period of bankruptcy.

5/ How + when the bankruptcy period could be ended.

6/ What the long term ramification of having been bankrupt would there be for the OP.

7/ Although NOT specifically mentioned by the OP, methinks that it is also important to consider the OP's husband's position...e.g. Would a JOINT bankruptcy application be a possible option?

...Or would a complete severance of financial ties asap be better for BOTH the OP + her husband + seperate applications made?

 

 

...

[honey5]

"OPs OH has now left the building"

 

honey x

[jansus]

I agree with MTM post to a certain extent but as for paying no money towards the arrears or shortfall it should be considered that if BR was not obtained then interest on the debt and interest on that interest would be accruing.That is why when they do eventually chase for the money the debt has increased so much.I do think this is unfair by the institutions and as a general rule they should be encouraging payments towards the shortfall asap if there is the income.

[gizmo111]

Methinks it is a responsibility equally shared between the OP + her husband gizmo111...

 

He seems to have left and is not taking responsibility, forthe purposes of this now, we are just looking at Tillys options and future. His are discussed briefly above.

 

Agreed.

But the 12yrs in which the Mortgagae Lender has to recover any debt begins from when the OP last makes ANY acknowledgement of the debt...i.e. A £1 token payment, NOT from when the Possession Order was granted.

Any acknowledgement in writing also, but not really relevant as it is doubtful that they would leave it for 12 years to chase them for what looks is going to be a large sum.

 

Given that each + EVERY payment to the Mortgage Lender re-starts the 12yr period + that a bankrupcy pettion is seeming more likey every day the OP's house (...which is now owned by the Mortgage Lender btw) remains unsold, ANY further payment by the OP would appear to be 'Dead Money'??...

Would it be MORE advantagous to the OP, if NO further payments on the Mortgage were made + the monies kept to go towards future Bond/Deposit/Rent payments on private rental property??...

Yes - I thought that was what she had decided, a month or so ago.

 

If the answer to the above is YES, the longer the OP remains in the current property, until an Eviction Notice is served, the longer the OP is able to enjoy RENT FREE accomodation, IF bankrupcy is sought + obtained??...

Yes, also the bankruptcy fees need to be found and any savings until eviction can be used towards that.

 

Methinks an over simplification gizmo111.

A Credit Card is just a token + remains the property of the Credit Card Company even though it has been issued to the Card Holder.

A house becomes the property of the Mortgage Lender ONLY when a Possession Order is obtained.

 

It was meant to be very simple.

 

 

 

Methinks that it IS important for the OP, that ALL options are explored for ALL scenarios + for EACH stage.

 

To clarify...

 

A Joint Mortgage is held by the OP + her husband. Yes

The Mortgage is of a normal Repayment type. No - It is inerest only, with no investment vehicle to pay the capital at the end of the term.

Arrears have accrued on the Mortgage. Yes - quite high arrears now

(...3months arrears allows the Mortgage Lender to instigate Court proceedings to recover possession btw) Yes we know.

The OP's husband has suffered a disabilitaing accident + is unlikely to be able to regain the level of income that he previously enjoyed through employment.

They are seperated so - his income s irrelevant now.

The OP alone can NOT afford to service the current Mortgage, let alone be in a position to make arrangements to enter into an agreement to 'catch up' with the arrears.

 

The above would signify the OP would either have to Re-mortgage or consider 'downsizing'.

No equity - so a re-mortgage would not be possible, in the current climate sub prime lenders are going as low as 60% LTV. No equity to downsize and put a deposit on another property.

The OP has stated that the level of her current Mortgage means that there is NO equity.

Therefore selling the house is the ONLY feasible option.

 

The Mortgage Lender has ALREADY obtained an intially undefended Possession Order.

IMHO, to try to have the Possession Order suspended serves NO purpose to the OP...

The OP would just be delaying the enevitable given her expected income levels.

The general housing market is in freefall + has yet to reach its bottom.

It would appear prudent, for the OP, to discharge her obligation to the debt asap.

She cannot discharge her obligation to the debt, until she knows how much it is goig to be and then looks at her options.

 

It has been acknowledged that there going to be a shortfall regardless of who sells the OP's house.

If the Mortgage Lender does it, the shortfall would be expected to be ££zillions.

They still have to make best endeavours to accept a reasonable market price.

If the OP retains the right to be able to sell her house the shortfall COULD be limited.

 

If the shortfall is limited to such a minimal extent, the OP's financial position could be recovered, over a period of time, without the need to enter into bankrupcy.

At the moment if she is not paying then the arrears are accruing at a rate of around £1K per month. She then has to add on ME's costs, Estate Agent and other legal costs - at this point even she were to find a buyer today, it is likely she would be looking at somewhere in the region of £19k, calculated from dropping the price from the beginning of the thread where she said she had no equity.

Methinks the OP would be best advised by realistic options about what her 'cut-off' point should be.

If the OP were to enter into bankrupcy, ££zillions as opposed to ££thousands is neither here nor there IMHO.

 

The following questions also NEED to be addressed...

 

1/ The level of the OP's other debts + what type of debt they are.

2/ What level of repayment the OP realistically feels that she could comfortably afford to repay to recover her financial position if bankruptcy was NOT to be considered.

(...This enables the 'cut-off' point to be fixed)

3/ How bankrupcy could be successfully achieved.

You fill in forms, get a court date and attend the hearing, a relatively simple process. There are people here who could help her with the forms if she needed it.

4/ What being a bankrupt person would actually mean for the OP, during the period of bankruptcy.

5/ How + when the bankruptcy period could be ended.

Within a year she woul be discharged, depending on level of income a IPA may be in place for 3 years.

6/ What the long term ramification of having been bankrupt would there be for the OP.

She'll have problems getting a mortgage, and any form of credit it may impact when she wants to rent somewhere if the landlord/agent does a credit check. It will stay on CRA for 6 years (butthe repo would anyhow), she could not be a director of a company whilst bankrupt, and certain professions would bar her from working in their field - eg accountancy, solicitors.

But the plus side is it would be a fresh start and she will benefitfrom having her whole income (less any IPA) to budget.

7/ Although NOT specifically mentioned by the OP, methinks that it is also important to consider the OP's husband's position...e.g. Would a JOINT bankruptcy application be a possible option?

Joint bankruptcy is not something I have ever heard of, my understanding is it is an individual thing, but they could do it on the same day if he so wished.

...Or would a complete severance of financial ties asap be better for BOTH the OP + her husband + seperate applications made?

As above.

 

 

...

 

There is some more information here on bankruptcy.

[MilkTrayMan]

12yrs in which the Mortgage Lender has to recover any debt begins from when the OP last makes ANY acknowledgement of the debt...i.e. A £1 token payment, NOT from when the Possession Order was granted.

Any acknowledgement in writing also, but not really relevant as it is doubtful that they would leave it for 12 years to chase them for what looks is going to be a large sum

???????????????????????????

U ARE kidding aren't U gizmo111??...

 

The WHOLE of the CAG website is riddled with Threads about peeps being chased by Original Creditors/DCA's etc, well into the period in which they are legally entitled to start Court Claim against....:eek:

 

Indeed, janus even refers to this types of DELAY in her Post preceding yours...

 

 

If a person has JUST been re-possessed, it will 99.99% of the time be cos of LACK of income.

It therefore makes MORE sense for the Creditor to wait as long as possible before attempting to regain the monies owed, surely?

A/ Interest etc could have accrued on the original outstanding balance, thus increasing the debt.

B/ The Debtor would hopefully have recovered from their financial setback + be back on their feet enough to repay the debt.

 

 

 

I myself am facing impending legal action on an 'alleged' Mortgage Shortfall from 11yrs ago.

From MY own personal experience, MY Mortgage Lender has had more than ample opportunity to take me to Court, but has chosen NOT to do so, so far...

[TideTurner]

More interesting stories here Tills

 

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