Threat of bailiffs - Help please!

[Anonguy]

Hi Everyone

 

I have an outstanding amount of overpaid Housing benefit to repay - the debt is mine, and I have no issue with that. I have contacted the DCA involved three times in the past three weeks offering a repayment schedule (by letter - "signed for"), but have only today received a reply stating that I need to contact them by phone in order to resolve my enquiry and if I do not do so as a matter of urgency then it will

 

"...result in further recovery action being taken and a certified bailiff will be instructed to call at your premises..."

 

(1) - I surely don't have to contact the DCA by phone do I (I have no wish to talk to these people and I understand that this is the correct thing to do?

 

(2) Can they really order a bailiff to call if I don't phone, or do they have to get a court order first (which I should be made aware of)?

 

Any advice would be welcome as I am scared stiff of this happening....

 

Thanks in advance for anyone's quick advice....

[PossVox]

Hi,

 

NEVER SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE!!!

as far as I'm aware, bailiffs cannot be sent unless you have been given a CCJ and then failed to pay it.

Have you checked that your previous letters to them were actually delivered?

[boyboynova]

Might I ask is it housing benefit from social.

If so they should have picked up on it,and gave you the option to have overpayment taken direct from your benefits.

[zazen.warrior]

Many years ago I was overpaid HB for quite a lengthy period despite me advising them of the error repeatedly.

 

To cut a long story short I eventually let it go to court and then paid it back at a rate I could afford.

 

I would contact the DCA and advise you will do the same unless they accept your offer, pointing out if it does go to court you will then make a much lower offer which the court will oblige them to accept.

 

I would also enclose your first payment advising that you will view it as acceptance of your offer if they do not return the money to you.

 

I would guess the average DCA is too greedy to give any payment back.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Failing to pass on offers of payment is a breach of the OFT Guidance, too.

[Anonguy]

Thanks for all the help so far - much appreciated.

 

All my letters have been received (according to "track and trace" on the Royal mail website), so I know they have been getting them. I like the idea of sending my first payment with the next letter; I'm sure they will cash it, so I'll do that with the express statement that I will view it as acceptance of my offer if they do not return the money to me.

 

My main worry is regarding the bailiff "threat". As far as I am aware, I have no CCJ aganst me, and have received no notifcatio of any imoending action. Can anyone confirm that this HAS to be done before a bailiff can be instructed to call?

 

Thanks again everyone, this site has allowed me to be much stronger on these issues, now I know that I have rights...

[Anonguy]

Bump

 

Sorry for being selfish....just worried

 

Thanks

[BellaGoth]

I see several things wrong here, first of all as ScarletPimpernal said, they've failed to pass on offers of repayment, secondly, by mentioning bailiffs they are implying authority they simply don't have, they can't just send court appointed bailiffs out on a whim, they have to have a court order which you would have received.

 

If I were you I would seriously consider complaining to the Office of Fair Trading.

[Anonguy]

Hi all - update...

 

Sent suggested letter with notice that "failure to return my money would allode to accpetance of my monthly payment offer..."

 

Well, cheque was cashed, but today I recieved two letters threatening bailiff action as before, and possible County Court involvement.

 

What should I do? Apparently they had broken OFT guidelines by not offering my repayment plan to their client.....should I write to the OFT to complain, and if so, what should I say? In addition, what do I reply with to the DCA (if anything) - or should I just send my next payment (due next week).

 

To be honest, I'm panicing a bt, so all suggestions would be greatfully received.

 

Thanks a lot for all your help....

David

[zazen.warrior]

I would send them the next payment with a cheery little covering note, which makes no referance whatsoever to their threats, using the phrase 'as agreed I enclose my payment of...'.

 

If and when they take you to court you will have proof of your willingness to pay which will make their action vexatious, admit the debt and provide the court with copies of your proof payments and the nice friendly covering letters you sent with them; offer to continue paying at the same rate, in the meantime keep paying

[Anonguy]

I see several things wrong here, first of all as ScarletPimpernal said, they've failed to pass on offers of repayment, secondly, by mentioning bailiffs they are implying authority they simply don't have, they can't just send court appointed bailiffs out on a whim, they have to have a court order which you would have received.

 

If I were you I would seriously consider complaining to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Thanks for all the help so far. As an aside, if I wanted to report these chaps to the OFT, how would I go about it, I was under the impression that they didn't deal with individual consumer complaints? BUT, i'd love to copy them on a cimplaint to someone in authority, just because ther're being a total pain in the a**e!!

[Anonguy]

Hi all - update...

 

Sent suggested letter with notice that "failure to return my money would allode to accpetance of my monthly payment offer..."

 

Well, cheque was cashed, but today I recieved two letters threatening bailiff action as before, and possible County Court involvement.

 

What should I do? Apparently they had broken OFT guidelines by not offering my repayment plan to their client.....should I write to the OFT to complain, and if so, what should I say? In addition, what do I reply with to the DCA (if anything) - or should I just send my next payment (due next week).

 

To be honest, I'm panicing a bt, so all suggestions would be greatfully received.

 

Thanks a lot for all your help....

David

 

So, second payment sent (waiting for cheque to be cashed as we speak). Received ANOTHER letter from these clowns informing me that if I don't contact them immediately (as apparently I have not responeded to any of their letters(!)), I will receive a "home visit".

 

So, the question is, does anyone have any idea how best to tell these chumps they're (1) Lying - I have obviously responded as they cashed the first cheque and have wriiten to me "regarding my recent correspondance), (2) Politely inform them I will not welcome a "home visit", and (3) Should I now ask for a copy of their complaints procedures and/or write to Trading Standards to complain?

 

Any help welcomed, because I'm getting a tad hacked off by their stupidity and total disregard to any guidelines they should be adhering to. As far as I know they havent even discussed my repayment proposal wit their client, which, I am led to believe, is against OFT guidelines...

 

Sorry, rant over!

[babybear39]

Call Trading Standards ASAP, here's the link:

 

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

Send the DCA this by recorded post:

 

Dear xxxx

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully/sincerely,

 

And here's the link to the OFT guidlines:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

False representation of authority and/or legal position

2.3 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority

and/or the correct legal position.

2.4 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. falsely implying or claiming authority, for example, claiming to work on

instructions from the courts, claiming to be bailiffs or, in Scotland,

sheriff officers or messenger-at-arms

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

e. operating a policy, without reason, of refusing to negotiate with

debt management companies

f. passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the

debtors' informed prior consent

g. failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments

 

The highlighted bits apply to you and make sure you firmly but politely inform TS that they have broken these.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[Anonguy]

Call Trading Standards ASAP, here's the link:

 

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

Send the DCA this by recorded post:

 

Dear xxxx

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing. I have noted your repeated attempts to contact me by telephone over the past few weeks/months and these have been duly logged by time and date.

 

Furthermore, should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully/sincerely,

 

And here's the link to the OFT guidlines:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

 

False representation of authority and/or legal position

2.3 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority

and/or the correct legal position.

2.4 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. falsely implying or claiming authority, for example, claiming to work on

instructions from the courts, claiming to be bailiffs or, in Scotland,

sheriff officers or messenger-at-arms

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made.

b. disclosing debt details to an individual when it is uncertain that they are

the debtor in question, for example, disclosing details to 'the occupier' of

an address.

c. refusing to deal with appointed or authorised third parties, such

as Citizens Advice Bureaux, independent advice centres or money

advisers

d. contacting debtors directly and bypassing their appointed representatives

e. operating a policy, without reason, of refusing to negotiate with

debt management companies

f. passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the

debtors' informed prior consent

g. failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments

 

The highlighted bits apply to you and make sure you firmly but politely inform TS that they have broken these.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

 

That's a great help BabyBear, much appreciated. I will use the "doorstep call" paragraph for sure. I was also going to point out that their comment about not responding was factually incorrect as they have signed for letters I sent them (electronic proof available), plus they have cashed a cheque, possibly two by now.

 

Should I advise them I am reporting them to the TS, or should I first, ask for a copy of their complaints proceedure, or just report them to TS and not let them know?

 

Thanks again everyone for your help...

[babybear39]

You're welcome

 

Do both

 

They have 8 weeks to reply to your complaint in a satisfactory manner and if they don't, complain to FOS.

[Anonguy]

Hi all,

 

Sent a letter to complain about the treatment received in terms of "standard" letters being sent continually in response to mine, all asking for me to contact them, and the lack of response from their client (local council regarding Overpaid Housing benefit).

 

I received the attatched letter in response; what concerns me is the statement that they do not have to follow OFT guidelines as they do not need a consumer credit license to collect the type of debt they do. What comeback (if any) do I have to this then if OFT does not apply in this case?

 

I am fed up with their "junk mail" asking me to call; I have no wish to talk to them, correspondance in writing is the only way I wish to deal with these guys.

 

Any advice would be gratefully received; I feel like they have the upper hand now and it irks me enormously!

 

Thanks as ever....

LET.pdf

[ScarletPimpernel]

According to the OFT's website, any business that collects debts requires a Consumer Credit Licence, unless they only collect from limited companies.

 

Which DCA is this? If you don't want to put it on the forum, pm me and I'll check with the OFT database.

[ScarletPimpernel]

For some reason, the edit function doesn't work for me.

 

I wouldn't reply to their rather badly-written letter until their status has been confirmed with OFT.

 

Poor dears, it seems that

I will only communicate with you in writing

has confused them, so that they keep asking you to phone them.

[Anonguy]

Hi SP,

 

Sent you a PM...

 

Thanks

[nicklea]

Hi,

 

Have a look here for some more information:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/91929-council-tax-bailiffs-2-a.html#post841212

 

The council will have got a liability order in the magistrates court against you. This is the one area of debt that still comes under the criminal system rather than the civil system.

 

Once they've got a liability order then yes they can send the bailiffs in.

 

I would suggest that you need to speak to the council directly if you're not getting anywhere with the DCA

[ScarletPimpernel]

I agree that you should contact the council directly and establish exactly what's happened. Most councils will accept repayment of overpaid benefit by instalments, and should have a clear and accessible policy on overpayments. Only if this, and other attempts to recover the money (such as by dedcution from existing benefits etc.), have failed should they go to court.

 

HB overpayment is a County Court matter rather than Magistrates, and a civil matter rather than criminal, incidentally (look on Council websites for confirmation). This is why I think the DCA in this case has got it wrong - they are treating this like non-payment of council tax, or a PCN.

 

Just making some enquiries on the DCA's liability to be licenced.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Quelle surprise - DCA speaks with forked tongue...

 

In their letter, the DCA says:

 

We would advise that the OFT guidelines are only applicable if a consumer credit licence is necessary. We do not require this for the type of debts that we recover and so OFT have nothing to do with us.

 

So, they say they don't require a licence, and therefore the guidance doesn't apply. Curious, because OFT confirms that they do need a licence - and the DCA knows it, because they have one (I've pm'd details to OP). It follows, then, that they should be complying with the guidance.

 

Their statement that 'we are not trading and you are not a customer' is just bullsh1t; if they are collecting debt, they need a licence.

 

Incidentally, their entry on ICO's register of data controllers shows that they process data relating to the tracing of consumers and collection of debt on behalf of creditors - so, a debt collection business that requires a licence, then.

 

The company concerned has featured on CAG before, and has a reputation for being a little, well, non-conformist. So, whilst you should definately ask them for a copy of their complaint procedure - as holders of a consumer credit licence they are obliged by the CCA 2006 to have one - and submit a formal complaint, (add 'communicating in a deceitful and misleading manner' to the existing complaints), escalating to FOS as required.

 

However, I suspect that a complaint to the council about their DCA's conduct is likely to be more fruitful. If they need to focus their minds, mention that you will complain to the Local Government Ombudsman.

[nicklea]

HB overpayment is a County Court matter rather than Magistrates, and a civil matter rather than criminal, incidentally (look on Council websites for confirmation). This is why I think the DCA in this case has got it wrong - they are treating this like non-payment of council tax, or a PCN.

 

 

Sorry - you're right. I was getting mixed up with council tax. Didn't read the thread properly

[Anonguy]

Quelle surprise - DCA speaks with forked tongue...

 

In their letter, the DCA says:

 

 

 

So, they say they don't require a licence, and therefore the guidance doesn't apply. Curious, because OFT confirms that they do need a licence - and the DCA knows it, because they have one (I've pm'd details to OP). It follows, then, that they should be complying with the guidance.

 

Their statement that 'we are not trading and you are not a customer' is just bullsh1t; if they are collecting debt, they need a licence.

 

Incidentally, their entry on Information Commissioners Office's register of data controllers shows that they process data relating to the tracing of consumers and collection of debt on behalf of creditors - so, a debt collection business that requires a licence, then.

 

The company concerned has featured on CAG before, and has a reputation for being a little, well, non-conformist. So, whilst you should definately ask them for a copy of their complaint procedure - as holders of a consumer credit licence they are obliged by the CCA 2006 to have one - and submit a formal complaint, (add 'communicating in a deceitful and misleading manner' to the existing complaints), escalating to FOS as required.

 

However, I suspect that a complaint to the council about their DCA's conduct is likely to be more fruitful. If they need to focus their minds, mention that you will complain to the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

Thanks SP for the research and for this. I will draft something and put it on here for comment as I want the letter to (1) Let them know I (well, you lot) know your rights, (2) They have behaved in an unprofessional manner and (3) Have basically lied to me regarding credit license, as they stated in writing, they don't need one!

 

I have a copy of their complaints procedure, and informed them I was escalating this to OFT, when I received the reply I posted, so this is the opportunity to try and put them in their place a litttle. The ironic thing is I'm not even trying to avoid paying, and have sent several payments already!! In addition, I will contact the council involved directly, and send them a copy of the letter to these guys, to show them the sort of company they are dealing with...i.e.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help.

AG

[babybear39]

Complain and copy everything to TS, FOS, OFT, the council and your MP.