Help! need further advise...

[nelix]

Hey everyone,

Long story short, and that'll be a first for me! You help my hand though advising before, I send a CCA request prior to christmas, got a letter back saying they were having problems locating the orignal paperwork, but the froze the amount, which they,carbot, knocked off a clear £600 while going back and forth.

Then, on a few days ago we got something back. We were informed the debt had been sold on in 2004 from B/C to carbot, we have little to none paper work, and NO indication as to when the last payment was made. The original card was dated 1996 and we ran into trouble a couple of years later. They, carbot, seem to be impling the debt date started from 2004, thats rubbish, as I can cleanly remember being scarred out of my witts by their bullying and that was B/C.

The letter Im looking at is not threatening, but my question is what the heck do I do next??? Am I meant to sent a stat barred letter, even 'though I dont have any dates or are they oblidged to show the last date of a payment againt the "account"??? Both very short "invoices from carbot, show nil by payment, but they are very careful not to sent anything prior by B/C.

Im in your hands again and I hope to God theres someone out there that can gently push me in the right direction.

yours

nelix

ps my apologies if I have put this in the wrong area...Im still wearing my learning plates for computers

[nelix]

Im sorry to go on, but Im very worried about this, can anyone tell me if carbot should have sent me a bit more detail of the last payment of the account?

I am going to spend a good part of the weekend going though this really helpful site, in the hope I might find something to steer me in the right direction.

Im almost 80% positive we have passed the 6 year mark, but what I do not know is how I should push forward. And the biggie, how do I prove that???

Any help will be gratefully recieved.

yours

nelix

[debt4get]

im thinking maybe you need to send for an SAR this should give u all the information

[nelix]

Hey,

thank you for replying, I have no idea what a SAR is, again any help would be greatfully recieved. I have no idea where I stand legally on this and Im very worried about not responding in the correct time.

Nblaen, you have no idea how much your reply meant to me, I was starting to totally panic!

thank you

nelix

[debt4get]

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[name]

 

 

this is the template for the SAR and you should get all the information relating to your account

[debt4get]

have you actually had the CCA back from them at all?

[debt4get]

if they havent actually produced the CCA there is no way they can legally enforce the debt, they can ask you to pay they can try to bully you but without the signed document they cannot enforce payment in a court

[firstwithit]

Send them the Statute Barred letter by recorded delivery, dont sign it just print name.

It is up to them to prove you owe the debt not for you to prove that you dont and whatever dont talk to them on the phone!

[nelix]

Thanks for your help guys, its really appriciated. I'll try not to waffle on to much with my answer!

Yes I sent a CCA request just before xmas, they then reduced the amount by £600, and wrote to say it was frozen.

We then waited 'til end feb for something back from them, which Im now looking out, its very basic and has a faded black copy of the orignal B/C agreement dated 1996. We ran into problems, about 2 years later. B/C gave up on us in 2004, we had moved, then carbot brought the debt. They found us in abt 2006. This "paperwork" shows no payments against the account from 2004, and I know for a fact there were no payments prior to that with B/C for years. I was expecting some sort of statement showing when we had last paid, so I could work out if it was stat barred. But I guess they would not send that would they:roll:

With all that in mind, anymore thoughts?

oh and by the Im one of the very lucky ones, they dont have our telelphone number, my heart goes out to anyone that has to put up with some of the calls Ive read about on here.

all the best

nelix

[debt4get]

the only way I think to find out its statute barred is to send them the statute barred letter and see what they come back with, am I reading this correctly with u saying that there were payments on the account in 2004?

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Nelix.

 

Send them this prove it letter.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

(Your Name) Print do not sign

 

At the top of the letter put...

 

"I ACKNOWLEDGE NO DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY"

 

See what they come back with, and yes if you have had no contact with them for over 6 years, the debt is Statute Barred.

 

 

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[nelix]

knew Id end up confusing you all:D

The debt was sold onto cabot 2004, we had moved and never got anymore letters. There were NO payments paid to cabot at all, and I think the last payment to B/C was around 98/99.

So basically I think, but am not 100% sure we are talking at least eight years on, no payments against the account.

Its actually not my debt, my husbands but Im dealing with it, the so and so is not one for keeping paperwork, bless him.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Nelix.

 

If what you say is correct, you have had no contact with them for over 6 years, then the debt is Statute Barred, don't worry about it. There is no way they can persue you for the debt.(well they can because the debt still exists, but if you say your not paying it, that should be the end of the matter).

 

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[maroondevo52]

If your worried about it, you could send them this....

 

For your information, the general effects of sections 77-79 requires the creditor/owner

(in the case of a hire agreement) under an agreement for (fixed-sum credit, running

account credit and hire agreement) to provide the debtor/hirer with a copy of the executed

agreement and a statement of account on request.

 

If a creditor/owner fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days

(not including the date of receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all.

This prevents enforcement with or without a court order. If a default lasts for a month

(for example a calendar month) it constitutes an offence. We understand your concerns in

this matter but please do remember however that once the creditor/owner complies with

the request albeit out of time, he may once again enforce the agreement.

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement

and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do

not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the

agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but

remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor

(the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when

each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points,

but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no original copy, the trader will have

difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody

would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs

to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot

otherwise.

 

In the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to

further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under

section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or

provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 

[nelix]

thank you all for taking the time to help me out here. There was one small, probably rather stupid question, you mentioned "no contact" Im taking that to mean no payments as we did have several letters years ago regarding this, which we didnt reply too.

One other point, they did send me back a copy, and believe me they had had to have photocopied over and over trying to blacken the date out8) of the original application, with my husbands signiture on, so sending the letter asking for verification of the debt to him doesnt apply really.

Im my own (muddled) mind, it seems like they are starting the clock from when carbot took over the debt, not when we orignally defaulted, which had to be about 1998/9.

What Im getting from you all is a stat barred letter or sit back and see what comes next.

once again any imput would be gratefully recieved!

hope everyone is enjoying the weekend.

nelix

[debt4get]

I would send the statute barred and then sit back and wait and see what they send

[nelix]

I just wanted to say a big thank you for all of your help. I going to follow it, what Im planning to do is sit back and wait a couple of weeks, then I will send the stat barred letter. We have been looking back and it appears we ran in trouble in 2000, so here we are 8 years later and no payments against the account. I cant thank you all enough for helping me though this.

I actually am envolved with starting a web site that deals with emotional problems,which takes up alot of my time, so I understand a little about the hard work and deadication put in from so many of you.

Nelix

ps will let you know what happens.

[maroondevo52]

Good luck, nelix

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[nelix]

Hello everyone,

Im back again!

We recieved a rather pathectic box standard solictors letter, which I have spent ages trying to find and cant, it basically states that they might take us to court and issue a CCJ against my partner if we dont pay up now. It came 2nd class and was coputer generated. Im now wondering if I should be sending a challenge back re the stat barred situation, to shut them up for once and all. They have not sent me any detail of the last date of payment against the debt as they know its well past its sell by date.

Should I just let them get their knickers in a twist or should I do something about it. Surely its up to them to prove they can legally pester us like this?

any advise would be greatfully recieved

all the best

nelix

[42man]

Well you MUST send them (by recorded delivery) the statute barred letter which is letter 'M' from here.... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html You can see in the letter that the OFT, state that continuing to press for payment can be classed as harrassment....you don't want to let this go to a CCJ or a stat demand as you will waste more time....

[nelix]

Thank you so much for the swift reply, I will get on that tomorrow. My husband now works away all week, and actually isnt coming home this weekend due to corporate golf. We nomally do this on the computer, will it be ok to hand write some thing and obviously not sign it?? I need some serious guidence on this as Im doing it all on my own.

I have to tell you guys all the letters I have refer to the debt as a starting date of being taken over by carbot. Its like they are playing with the dates. Im 100% certain no payment has been made against this account for 7 years.

Ive now found the solicitors letter, its from a company called Hodsons in rugby,and I quote

"as your ccount is in defualt, the full amount outstanding is payable immeditaitely.

our client has been unable to obtain a satisfactory proposal from you. We are therefore intrusted to review your account for isssuance for recovery of all sums due with ourt futher notice or warning if you fail to agree payment terms within 7 days from the date above of this letter.

Our client will seek prompt enforcement of any court judgement obtained against you."

This I repeat was sent 2nd class and had a barr code on it and was obviously a computer letter.

thanks guys

nelix

[42man]

By all means hand write it...and send it by recorded delivery....

[nelix]

Thanks for your help big time!!!

[42man]

If they carry on hassling you after you have sent this letter, please speak to your local MP or Trading Standards....it is basically harrassment to keep pressing you after you have stated that you will not be paying anything towards a statute barred debt...

[nelix]

Just an update to you guys, I sent the stat barred letter recorded, waited til his nibs was at home so we could do it on the computer. Im rubbish at that sort of thing. Have to save Im kinda excited as to what they are going to do. One other thing I forget to mention, when they sent the form back showing just the date of my partners signiture 1999, and no date of the last recieved payment, they stated the amount had been frozen to £1300 odd, they have knocked off £600 interest. However, and this is where it gets interesting, the solicitors letter has stated the larger sum, being £1950. I am going to be very interested in what they say next, needless to say with the help of you guys, I have kept everything, and Im wondering if a bogus "cash" payment is going to be the next move. Bring it on!!!!!

All the best guys

nelix