Barclaycard ; Are These Enforceable Please

[citizenB]

Barclaycard have sent these 2 documents one for Mastercard and one for Visa. Could someone please confirm if they are correct. Thank you. This one Mastercard. Along with this there was a letter saying enclosed: A signed copy of your Application Credit card Agreement and a copy of your current Barclaycard Conditions.

 

[citizenB]

This one Visa. The letter enclosed with this says enclosed : a signed copy of your application credit card Agreement, a copy of your original Barclay card conditions and a copy of your current Barclaycard conditions.

 

[miss muppet]

Looks unenforceable to me citizen and the clue is in application but no doubt someone more knowledgeable will back this up soon:)

[shieldblaster]

From what I can see these are pre-contractual applications forms not credit agreements with all the prescribed terms and content

[pt2537]

Hi there

 

well the second one is a mailer application form and totally unenforceable

 

the other one im not so sure, its a modifying agreement and it appears to contain the prescribed terms,

 

i will have to look at the regs and see what they say in relation to this and get back to you

[shieldblaster]

I can't see any credit limit or amount of credit in the second one. There is also no heading describing the agreement, nor any name or adress of creditor, nor any details of the consumer rights

[pt2537]

take a closer look at the first one,they are there in the first one, the second one as i said is unenforceable,

[shieldblaster]

take a closer look at the first one,they are there in the first one, the second one as i said is unenforceable,

 

Sorry my mistake, I actually meant the first one, still can't see any of what I mentioned

[pt2537]

they are on the right hand side of the document , albeit not very clear, it does set out the required terms as far as i can see, and has a title of modifying agreement.

 

the problem is a court may be able to enforce this,even though its not properly executed as its not signed by the creditor it could be enforced by s127(3)

[citizenB]

Many thanks for your replies.

 

The first one, the Modifying agreement for Mastercard is a Valid agreement.

 

The 2nd, the Visa page is not a valid agreement because it is a Mailer application form and not an Agreement not having the proscribed terms.

 

Could someone please point me in the direction of a letter I can send asking Barclaycard to rectify this. Thank you x

[citizenB]

would someone be kind enough to check this is a suitable letter to send to barclaycard.

 

Sequence of events

 

12th January 2008 - I sent a CCA request

25th January 2008 - letter dated 22nd January received from BC with the usual re overdue payments even though £1.00 token payments are being received by them and shown on statements. In this letter I am advised 'you must make your payment or we'll instruct mercers Debt Collections Ltd to send you a default notice in accordance with 'our' rights, etc... Because it was so close to the date (4th Febraury) when BC should have complied with my CCA request, I sent them the reminder CCA letter.

29th January 2008 - Letters received from Mercers dated 25th January 2008 enclosing Default notices as advised. I replied immediately advising accounts in dispute and suggesting they return the files to their client until such times as my CCA request had been complied with.

30th January 2008 - Yesterday I received from Maria Roy, Court Orders and Disclosure Clerk in their Legal and Regulatory Compliance Dept enclosing the documents as in the first 2 posts of this thread. One of which I am advised by pt2537 is not an agreement but a mailer application form.

 

my letter is as follows I would appreciate any comments,. Thank you x

 

 

Barclaycard

1234 Pavilion Drive

Northamptonshire

NN4 7SG

 

 

ATTENTION: MARIA ROY

COURT ORDERS AND DISCLOSURE CLERK

LEGAL AND REGULATORY COMPLIANCE

DEPT LRC

 

ACCOUNT NO: VISA XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

THIS ACCOUNT STILL REMAINS IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your letter dated 29th January 2008. The document enclosed however does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. A signed pre-contractual application form does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement.

 

I am enclosing copies of the letters sent to your company requesting this agreement. The original request made on 12th January 2008, gave you until the 4th February to comply with my request. However due to the actions of LK Dineen who instructed Mercers your ‘In House’ Collection agents, it was necessary for me to send the reminder early. This was received by Barclaycard on 28th January and gives Barclaycard until 4th March to comply.

 

Yours faithfully

[citizenB]

bump

[citizenB]

I sent DH's letter on the 31st January to Maria Roy, as above requesting the correct document.

 

Today he received a letter from Mercers saying thank you for contacting us . We are unable to accept your curent offer of payment. And that would be what??.. DH didnt make any offer of payment to Mercers.. they were told to refer back to Barclaycard until someone had sent documents that had been requested that DH was entitled to ?? They would however like to take the opportunity to discuss the matter with DH.. Hmm, dont think so. If DH doesnt respond in 7 days they will set the local rotweiller onto him.

What is really interesting is the letter I sent out was dated 28th January and Royal Mail website provides a POD dated 30th January 2008. Mercers letter to DH is dated 29th posted 2nd class and it was received today. Because I could see what it was .. I asked the postman to sign the envelope that it had been received today.. BEFORE I opened it !!. So they havent given anytime at all really have they to comply with their demand.. contact would have to be made tomorrow.

 

This was my reply on DH's behalf... It was sent by Special Delivery and will be delivered tomorrow hopefully.

 

Mercers Debt Collections Limited

PO Box 55

Liverpool

L32 8XX 04 February 2008

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE : PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

VISA ACCOUNT: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I am rather puzzled by your letter dated 29th January 2008 received today. I do not recall offering you any money whatsoever. My letter dated 28th January suggested that you contact Barclaycard as these accounts are in dispute.

 

I have again written to MARIA ROY, COURT ORDERS AND DISCLOSURE CLERK, LEGAL AND REGULATORY COMPLIANCE, DEPT LRC on the 31st January and until such times as I receive the requested documentation from her this account will remain in dispute.

Whilst these accounts are in dispute Barclaycard are committing a criminal offence by passing them on to a 3rd party. Please see the attached letter sent to Barclaycard on 25th January 2008 yet again enclosed for your information.

Should you continue to send letters until this dispute has been settled, I shall be passing your details on to Trading Standards.

Please be advised that I am only prepared to communicate with Barclaycard/yourselves in writing. OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; eg the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless.

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.

Please also note that your letter was dated 29th, giving me 7 days to respond it was then posted 2nd class . Because this is so obviously a ploy to get me to phone your office which I wont do.. I had a witness sign this letter on the date it was received … ie TODAY 4th February 2008 .

 

Yours faithfully

 

UNSIGNED...

 

 

 

I cannot remember where I hijacked the part highlighted in green from.. but thank you for posting it on the forum. When I come across it again, I will edit this post and credit the originator.

 

 

[citizenB]

As it was agreed the Mastercard Agreement was an agreement. A letter to BARCLAYCARD on 20th February with an improved offer on the £1.00 token payment OH had been paying. It was received on 21st February.

 

A letter dated 19th February was received from Mercers (Why are all the letters they send out dated the day before the date on the letters I have sent to them?)

 

Contents of the letter on MERCERS headed paper, are;

 

Account No:XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

O/S balance £XX,XXX.XX

Payment Due: £ XXX.XX

 

Dear XXXXX

 

You are behind with your payments on your Barclaycard Account.

 

Request for payment

 

Your outstanding balance and the amount you need to pay to bring your account up to date are shown above. We've withdrawn your ability to use your credit card because you have not sent us any payments since our last letter to you. Once we receive your payment, we will review your account status with a view to allowing you to use your card once again.

 

Debt Collection

 

You must make your payment or we'll instruct Mercers Debt Collections Ltd to send you a default notice in accordance with our rights under section 87(i) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This action may affect your ability to obtain credit in the future.

 

How to pay

 

There are several ways to pay:

Pay by debit card at our website www.barclaycard.co.uk

Callus on 0844 822 2003 to make a debit card payment or set up a direct debit. We are open Mon-Fri 8-8. & Sat 9-3

Send a cheque to Barclaycard, Dept PP, Thynne Street, Bolton, BL11 1XX

 

Need help

If you are having trouble increasing your payments, please call us. We want to help you through any financial difficulties you may be having.

 

Yours sincerely

 

etc, etc,

 

Now are these plonkers having an identity crisis ?. Why would they instruct Mercers Debt Collections Limited.. they are Mercers... arent they ?

 

Having sent them a payment albeit a reduced payment.. should I just ignore the letter from Barclays aka Mercers until my payment has been acknowledged with the usual .. " it isn't enough, pay more or plague be with you " letter .

[slick132]

Hi CB,

 

I'd wait for the response to the ltr you sent to them.

 

This thread must've been in the General Debt forum before. I think it's been moved in the reshuffle 2 weeks back. I'll get it put back for you so you're getting the right sort of help with your case.

[elsinore]

Thread moved.

 

Els

[citizenB]

Thank you for moving my thread x

[citizenB]

It would appear that I am not going to get a sensible reply to my letters to Mercers or the CCA request to Barclaycard . The 2 + 12 + 30 days were up on the 4th March 2008 and I am still receiving threatograms from Mercers.

 

The following letter was composed by Curlyben for Goldlady on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/122626-dlc-annoying-me.html

 

And I was wondering, if suitably amended it would be of use to me. Comments would be much appreciated. xx

 

*************************************

Quote:

Formal Complaint

Letter before Action

Dear Sir/Madam,

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your purusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harrassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully

__________________

[slick132]

Hi CB,

 

Looking at the linked thread you gave above, I would have adapted and sent the ltr that CurlyBen put in post #4 at this stage.

 

On the basis that they'll ignore it anyway, I doubt it really matters WHAT you send them !

[citizenB]

Thank you for your reply slick132. I did send an amended version of the letter in #4 of Goldlady's thread to Mercers on the 29th January when they first started to write to me.. but it doesnt appear to have done any good ! as they still continue to send me the threatograms.

 

So should I just hang fire and see what their next move is do you think?

[slick132]

Hi CB and sorry for not spotting this earlier.

 

Sure, send the letter you suggest to BC Visa in response to their snotograms.

 

Re the BC Mastercard a/c which appears to have a valid agree't, have you quantified the amount of penalty chgs you've suffered. You should reclaim these to reduce the debt owed on this a/c.

[citizenB]

Thanks Slick132, I will amend Curlyben's letter today and get it off tomorrow.

 

Ref the enforceable Mastercard account. The overdraft/late payment fees have only been levied since October last when OH started to have financial difficulties.. so can he claim for them ?.

 

Also for Mastercard, a much improved offer on the £1.00 token payment was made which Mercers have replied to say is not acceptable. I sent them back a letter basically saying 'sorry but you cant have what I dont have, other creditors have accepted and they have also frozen the interest and stopped adding late payment fees.. then please will you do so the same.'.

I guess our only option if they still refuse is to let them take OH to court. !

[citizenB]

This is my amended draft of Curlyben's letter. Now... I am unsure as to whether to send it to Barclaycard and copy it to Mercers Debt Collections Ltd who are the guys chasing this at the moment.. or send it to Mercers and copy it to Barclaycard. Presumably if they dont comply in the 14 days I report them to Trading Standards and OFT should mercers continue with the threatograpms ? Many thanks for your advice xx

 

Barclaycard

1234 Pavilion Drive

Northamptonshire 9th March 2008

NN4 7SG

 

ATTENTION: MARIA ROY

COURT ORDERS AND DISCLOSURE CLERK

LEGAL AND REGULATORY COMPLIANCE

DEPT LRC

 

Formal Complaint

Letter before Action

 

Dear Ms Roy

Account No: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

 

On 12th January 2008 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 4th March 2008

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

 

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you

may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

may not pass the account to a third party.

may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency

may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

Copy to

Colin Coombes

Mercers Debt Collections Limited

 

 

 

 

 

[citizenB]

bump

[slick132]

Hi CB,

 

Sorry for delay but I've not been around all day.

 

Enforceable MC a/c

 

You should make a Schedule of Charges for alll chgs suffered in the last 6 years and send off a prelim ltr to BC. Any amounts refunded will serve to reduce the debt o/s to BC.

 

Unenforceable BC Visa

 

Send the ltr to BC and copy to Mercers.