Can anyone help - New to this site - SCOTLAND

[wideload1888]

Bigmac versus / Godmother should I send a letter back to them asking for a copy of my credit agreement document as first requested ? Should I inform them that they have sent the wrong document ? It was pointed out to me on a previous comment that they should reply in 14 days is that still the case ? Bigmac versus mentions taking action "TS" what does this mean ? Sorry for so many questions

[pt2537]

Bigmac versus / Godmother should I send a letter back to them asking for a copy of my credit agreement document as first requested ? Should I inform them that they have sent the wrong document ? It was pointed out to me on a previous comment that they should reply in 14 days is that still the case ? Bigmac versus mentions taking action "TS" what does this mean ? Sorry for so many questions

 

TS Bigmac is referring to is Trading Standards

 

you can find your local TS here Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

I think you need to simply tell them that what they have sent is not compliant with the law

 

im sure i have a letter on file somewhere, bear with me, and i will dig it out

[wideload1888]

Pete you mentioned in your reply that you may have a letter on file that I could use to send to HFO ? Any joy ? Thanks for your assistance with this matter.

[pt2537]

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER

XX/XX/2008

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2008 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553

 

The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1. Number of repayments;

2. Amount of repayments;

3. Frequency and timing of repayments;

4. Dates of repayments;

5. The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

Further more, since the prescribed terms referred to above do not appear within the agreement your client has supplied, the agreement is rendered totally unenforceable, as the prescribed terms must be contained within the agreement and not a separate document, case law confirms this opinion

 

I refer you to the judgment of TUCKEY LJ in the case of Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

 

”[11] Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated

consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by Sch 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said:

 

 

"33 In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which

are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the

minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1."

 

Therefore the prescribed terms cannot be contained within a separate document outside of the agreement

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

 

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

As it stands, the document supplied by your client is not a valid credit agreement nor is it enforceable by any court

 

What I Require

 

Firstly, I require all correspondence in writing from here on; any persistent attempts to contact me by phone will be reported to Trading Standards, the Financial ombudsman service and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

 

I would like to draw your attention to the fact that your clients do not hold a signed copy of a credit agreement containing the prescribed terms. Therefore the fact that they do not hold such document means that you cannot obtain an enforcement order in court. The case of Wilson-v-FCT sets this out as previously referred to above

 

However should you believe that you have grounds to enforce this agreement, please provide me with a signed copy of the credit agreement that you would consider relying upon? Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement your clients have supplied as it stands is unenforceable, should you be unable to produce a compliant agreement it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages. I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

 

 

 

 

Amend to suit your situation

[vselym]

pt2537

 

nice letter, is there any validity though in including an element of "write the debt off AND REMOVE ANY DEFAULT MARKERS" ?

 

many people on here seem to think of it after the event, and we all know just how difficult the cra's make it to remove such markers

[wideload1888]

Pete thanks for the letter - I will ammend accordingly & forward to HFO. I see from vselym that he thinks it may be a bit OTT or am I reading it wrong ? Should I remove the txt with regards to writing off the debt or do you think I have a chance ?

Can you also advise how I can locate this thread quickly ? Do I save it anywhere ? I just keep trawling throgh the section till I find it - Sorry its all still quite new to me. Thanks again for your assistance

[vselym]

WL1888

 

PT2537 OTT ????!!!!!!?????!?!!?!?!??!?!? Never, just concise and to the point, i totally agree with what he says !

 

In terms of "finding yourself", towards the top of each page you should see the following

 

User CP FAQ Calendar New Posts Search Quick Links Reviews Log Out

 

just click on User CP and scroll down, any thread you have posted on will appear

Edited May 13, 2008 by vselym
spacing

[Michael Browne]

Top of the page: Quick Links - Subscribed Threads

 

This and any other threads you've posted on will be listed

[Bigmac versus]

Others beat me to it.

[wideload1888]

Thanks for the link info - Makes it a bit easier to keep a track of things when a newbie

[wideload1888]

Pete - Recieved a letter from "Barclaycard" last night claiming to have assigned my account to HFO as of 13 May 2008. Letter has Barclaycard header & footer on it but was sent from West Byfleet - Home of HFO ?

Letter states I now owe HFO £2162.53

 

As you will see from this early thread it started off as -

 

Owed £1829.84 to Moorcroft agreed payment plan of £50 pm starting Aug 07 & paid £200 in total

After 1 payment Moorcroft passed this back to Barclaycard on 21 Sep 07 as £1729.84 but we kept paying bank standing order

(Still fighting Moorcroft for missing £100 as they have "found" 2 pyments which they say they have passed to Barclaycard ?)

HFO start sending so called package awaiting collection letters in Nov ?

Sent request for the credit agreement in January 08.

Recieved copy of application in April 08.

 

Can these DCAs keep collecting some of the cash, send back to original credit supplier & they then pass it on to the next DCA who adds some cash to it & so on & so on

Sorry to go on a bit but its getting me down a bit to say the least. I will scan the letter later & post for you to see.

Can you advise what to do next - I was going to send the letter as advised so is still the correct thing to do ?

Thanks Pete

[wideload1888]

First Letter recieved from HFO In November 2007http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/wideload1888/HFOLetterNov2007blanked.jpgLetter recieved 16 May 2008http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/wideload1888/HFOLetterMay2008blanked.jpg

[Bigmac versus]

This helps

 

wideload1888 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting HFO letter November 2007

 

wideload1888 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting HFO letter May 2008

[The GodMother]

ok so what date did HFO get the account as it seems to be conflicting info.

[wideload1888]

Godmother - HFO sent me the first letter in November 2007 saying they had taken the debt from Barclaycard. I sent letter N to them in January 08 & they sent my application form as above. I then got another letter as above on Friday saying they had just taken over the debt from Barclaycard again ? and increased the amount owed !!

[wideload1888]

PT2537 - I understand you have been away - Are you free to advise on the questions raised since you were last on here helping me - I seem to have ground to a halt !

[wideload1888]

pt2537 - I understand you may be busy with other issues but could you find the time to look at the last few comments of this thread as I need some more advice. Thanks

[wideload1888]

Bigmac versus are you free to advise ? The last few notes to this thread have kinda drifred away & I can't seem to get any advice further ! Sorry

[pt2537]

did you send the letter i posted in post 29? and have you had a reply to it?

Edited May 28, 2008 by pt2537

[wideload1888]

Yes - ammended letter sent as advised by recorded delivery - Post Office track & trace say its been delivered but they cannot provide an electronic POD for some reason ? No reply back as of yet BUT I am little concerned with regrads to the 2 letters recieved from HFO as per posts 36,37,38,39 & 40 !! Can you advise any further on these ? Realy appreciate your time.

[pt2537]

HI Wideload1888

 

hmm, tis rather confusing, the notice of assignment seems to vary between organisations doesnt it

 

i will need to go and look at some case law just to check something out, i wont be able to get back to you tonight but i would not panic and see what they have to say to that letter

[wideload1888]

pt2537 - Thanks for your help its appreciated - Just cant seem to get my head around it all - Seems to me that HFO have sent me the wrong documents as requested & because I have riled them they have sent me what looks like a letter from Barclaycard assigning them the debt that they have already had assigned in November on alleged b/card paper sent from the HFO office in west byfleet (postmarked) and increased the alleged debt in the meantime !! that cant be right surely !

[pt2537]

Basically as i understand it, the assignment letter from HFO is ineffective as it should have come from Barclaycard

 

so the correct assignment if you like is barclays one.

 

however the amount owed must be correct AFAIK

 

can you confirm if the amount stated is correct or not?

[wideload1888]

pt2537 - really confused now - Debt as described in early thread 1 was with Moorcroft in August 2007 - We agreed payment plan of £50 p/m and paid £200 to them. In the meantime Moorcroft passed the debt back to B/Card but we didnt know until we recieved letter from HFO saying we owed them £1700ish in December. Sent the template letter N requesting credit agreement in January & recieved copy of application form in April as stated in earlier posts of this thread. Recieved letter from HFO as per attached which they say is from B/Card saying they have been assigned the debt which has now risen as stated BUT the letter was posted from HFO office in West Byfleet NOT from Barclaycard offices. You can see from the letters attached in early posts that this doesnt seem right !! Getting worried now

[wideload1888]

pt2537 - What does AFAIK mean !!