Benefit Cheats

[babybear39]

I have AS and various co morbids and also a huge list of other stuff

[PriorityOne]

I don't think I ever said otherwise, did I? I also know that for some of these kids, it is the ONLY way they have been able to get their condition under any kind of control. That however has nothing to do with the benefit cheats, or the supposed mis-diagnosis you claim happens so much. Anti-psychotic drugs are the only way to bring a social "condition" under control? That's a worrying statement in itself without me needing to add further comment...

 

Keep reading? Not just that, I attend seminars, support groups, conferences as well, which is why I know that the idea of ADHD as behavioural condition is about as discredited nowadays as Bettelheim's fridge-mother theory to explain autism. Oh, I know that some people will never accept that, but then I believe that some people also still believe that God created it all, and that doesn't make it true either. ;-)

 

Good for you Bookie... but we're not talking about autism.... and thank you for finally stating that it's a behavioural condition (my emphasis).

 

[babybear39]

P1, did you read the previous post?

[PriorityOne]

P1, did you read the previous post?

 

Do you mean yours BB?

[Bookworm]

Good for you Bookie... but we're not talking about autism.... and thank you for finally stating that it's a behavioural condition (my emphasis).

 

But I didn't... I said "the idea of ADHD as behavioural condition is about as discredited nowadays as Bettelheim's fridge-mother theory to explain autism". Where you get from that that I agreed with you I cannot fathom. I KNOW that some people think of it as a behavioural condition, you for instance. It doesn't mean that I agree, far from it. Either you are deliberately misconstruing my words, which is beneath you, or you genuinely didn't read my post properly, which is a bit of a shame.

 

Anti-psychotic drugs are the only way to bring a social "condition" under control?

It's not a social condition. *sigh* Anyway, does it mean that you think a child with cancer shouldn't get radiation therapy? Dangerous stuff that. Can make the kids really sick... Yet, if there is a chance that their condition will improve in the long run, most parents won't hesitate. It's really not that different.

[PriorityOne]

But I didn't... I said "the idea of ADHD as behavioural condition is about as discredited nowadays as Bettelheim's fridge-mother theory to explain autism".

 

My emphasis was on you finally referring to ADHD as a behavioural condition, whether it's discredited by others or otherwise.

 

It's not a social condition. *sigh* Anyway, does it mean that you think a child with cancer shouldn't get radiation therapy? Dangerous stuff that. Can make the kids really sick... Yet, if there is a chance that their condition will improve in the long run, most parents won't hesitate. It's really not that different.

 

Don't be ridiculous Bookie.... Cancer is a DISEASE and to say it's no different to the socially constructed label of ADHD is a massive insult to those who've lost someone to it!

Edited August 23, 2010 by PriorityOne

[Bookworm]

Don't be ridiculous Bookie.... Cancer is a DISEASE and to say it's no different to the socially constructed label of ADHD is a massive insult to those who've lost someone to it!

I've lost both my parents to it, P1, so please don't play that card with me, thanks.

 

The only one being ridiculous here is you, denying all advances in research to continue trotting out your beliefs that ADHD is just a convenient social label. If you want to talk about insulting people, your constant scapegoatism and attempt to blame everyone and everything except the fundamental neurological difference which is the root of ADHD, THAT is a massive insult to the people I see battling day in day out, trying to keep their lives, jobs, families together, usually in the face of the same disapproval of people who don't know any better. Frankly, I am shocked that with this attitude of yours, you are even allowed to be in schools, looking down your nose at people whose living hell you seemingly have no interest in understanding or helping.

 

I apologise to the rest of the people who may have been interested in the actual subject of the thread, i am aware that we have strayed well beyond the realms of supposed benefit cheats, but then when I see kids I know who are suicidal from a young age, who have no self-esteem, who don't even understand why they're different, but still suffer the consequences, and then I see people putting them and their carers in the same basket as benefit cheats, scroungers and other dishonest people, it does make me very mad indeed.

[PriorityOne]

I've lost both my parents to it, P1, so please don't play that card with me, thanks.

 

The only one being ridiculous here is you, denying all advances in research to continue trotting out your beliefs that ADHD is just a convenient social label. If you want to talk about insulting people, your constant scapegoatism and attempt to blame everyone and everything except the fundamental neurological difference which is the root of ADHD, THAT is a massive insult to the people I see battling day in day out, trying to keep their lives, jobs, families together, usually in the face of the same disapproval of people who don't know any better. Frankly, I am shocked that with this attitude of yours, you are even allowed to be in schools, looking down your nose at people whose living hell you seemingly have no interest in understanding or helping.

 

I apologise to the rest of the people who may have been interested in the actual subject of the thread, i am aware that we have strayed well beyond the realms of supposed benefit cheats, but then when I see kids I know who are suicidal from a young age, who have no self-esteem, who don't even understand why they're different, but still suffer the consequences, and then I see people putting them and their carers in the same basket as benefit cheats, scroungers and other dishonest people, it does make me very mad indeed.

 

I don't play games Bookie... the similarity to cancer came out of your mouth, not mine, so stop twisting it. I'm well aware that the thread has gone off topic but your blinkered views on ADHD really do beggar belief!! I care passionately about the kids I work with and even more passionately about the mass drugging of our younger people because their behavioiur is seen as too anti-social by parents, schools and so-called professionals, etc. ADHD is one of the few "disorders" that does not require a medical diagnosis before drugs are dished out... it's a subjective diagnosis based upon observations, interviews and other people's opinions on how kids ought to behave and how best to make them do it. It's a medicalised construct of behaviour as an illness....

 

Anti-social behaviour is a growing issue in our society... but according to you, massive numbers of children have suddenly developed a mental condition and/or were born with impaired brain function over the past 20 years or so. Wake up woman! I'm not talking out of my backside as you seem to be trying to imply through your arrogant stance. I have a psychological/social policy background, including a double Hons. degree in both subjects... one of the reasons why I was approached to work with these kids... It's not an easy job by any means but they've made more progress with me than with any predecessor to date. A fact that I'm very proud of...

 

Unlike you, I haven't sunk to taking a pop at you until now for making assumptions about me, how I think and what I do for a living but it's sheepish attitudes like yours that make my blood boil because of your refusal/inability to look outside the box.

 

In an attempt to lay this to rest, I respectfully suggest that you now go your way on this issue and I go mine now before it escalates any further...

 

Are you capable of that Bookie?

 

Just need to add... your last para does not describe ADHD....

[patrickq1]

http://www.bing.com/reference/semhtml/?title=Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder&src=abop&qpvt=adhd&fwd=1&q=adhd

[PriorityOne]

That was a very quiet post Patrick.... lol

 

Thanks for the link.... but read it carefully. Must research may have been done but people tend to fall into one of two camps; medical/social.... or nature/nurture. Although research may have been carried out on brain patterns, these can highlight all kinds of things including changes in stimuli; emotion, etc... all of which we experience as part of life. This doesn't make it an illness.

 

Our kids are not scanned for brain patterns before prescribed drugs are dished out.... that would be too expensive. They're dished out because someone, somewhere can't cope with that child and prefers to label him/her as mental through observations of behavioiur.

 

Years ago, we had discipline, stability, respect for rules/guidelines, less computer technology aimed at kids (stimuli) and fewer/zero "e" numbers in our cheap food....

 

Way off topic now... I'm off. This needs to come to a close.

 

Edited August 23, 2010 by PriorityOne

[Crapstone]

I'm so glad you aren't working with my child P1. I'd hate for him to become so arrogant and conceited, and think that his many qualified doctors, consultants and the rest of the team were so very wrong and that their degrees were inferior to yours.

 

As Marie said it's impossible to be a benefit cheat with ADHD..it takes years to get diagnosed as it's such a wide spectrum and being a part time know-it-all is not the same as living with the child 24/7 and seeing the changes.

[PriorityOne]

I'm so glad you aren't working with my child P1. I'd hate for him to become so arrogant and conceited, and think that his many qualified doctors, consultants and the rest of the team were so very wrong and that their degrees were inferior to yours.

 

As Marie said it's impossible to be a benefit cheat with ADHD..it takes years to get diagnosed as it's such a wide spectrum and being a part time know-it-all is not the same as living with the child 24/7 and seeing the changes.

 

I'm neither arrogant or conceited and do not go about thinking that anyone's degree is inferior to mine.... thank you. It does not take years to be diagnosed with ADHD; other conditions on the "spectrum" you mention, yes... but ADHD no.. I've known many parents who've had that label pinned to their child extremely quickly...

 

As you're obviously friends with "Marie"... your comments aren't really that surprising...

[Crapstone]

There you go again..I'm friends with a lot of people here. Why should that make a difference? I still have my own views...And if you really think it doesn't take years you are kidding yourself as you obviously haven't been through it. If you think it's also something to smile about then you really are in the wrong job.

[PriorityOne]

There you go again..I'm friends with a lot of people here. Why should that make a difference? I still have my own views...And if you really think it doesn't take years you are kidding yourself as you obviously haven't been through it. If you think it's also something to smile about then you really are in the wrong job.

 

You mentioned her by name... not as Bookie.... so it suggested an alliance otherwise you wouldn't have done it. I work in the system so will see a lot more than you do as a single person "going through it" (no disrespect)... and I'm smiling because I'm happy.

 

There... all your points answered.

 

:-)

[Crapstone]

And your comment on Bookies last paragraph being wrong? Part of the condition is isolation, frustration and irrational behaviour..not just the usual blues that you seem to think they are and the child being 'naughty' or the parenting skills coming into question. But you wouldn't know that...

[JonCris]

Erm can we get back on topic please

[PriorityOne]

And your comment on Bookies last paragraph being wrong? Part of the condition is isolation, frustration and irrational behaviour..not just the usual blues that you seem to think they are and the child being 'naughty' or the parenting skills coming into question. But you wouldn't know that...

 

Your support of your friend is admirable.... I've never mentioned "blues" and of course, I don't know anything about anything to with EBD kids, do I?

 

Finished?

 

[Crapstone]

I am not supporting my 'friend' I'm supporting my own stance..so stop twisting it to suit yourself. It's clear that you have very little knowledge on the subject and are trying to bully people to think as you do..Sorry, that isn't going to happen ..so go smile in the distance. You really have no idea of the autism spectrum.

[cirian75]

My worry with this benefits crack down is people who should be on them will be kicked off them by civil service types chasing stats.

[PriorityOne]

I am not supporting my 'friend' I'm supporting my own stance..so stop twisting it to suit yourself. It's clear that you have very little knowledge on the subject and are trying to bully people to think as you do..Sorry, that isn't going to happen ..so go smile in the distance. You really have no idea of the autism spectrum.

 

Im not talking about autistic spectrum. I've never mentioned autistic spectrum. ADHD is not autism. Autism is a developmental condition; not a medical construct of a behavioural disorder! Ritalin is not prescribed for autism! Autism is not ADHD! If you'd read and digested what I've said all along, you would have picked that up.

 

Finished now? Can we all go to bed?

 

Going to bed anyway....

Edited August 23, 2010 by PriorityOne
Going to bed... lol!

[Crapstone]

Yes JC..Better that this thread get's back on to the swines that continue to have childen when they are claiming benefits and the ones have several houses and claim the housing benefit under different names or rent them to relatives.

[Crapstone]

ADHD is on the autism spectrum as is Aspergers.

[callumsgran]

My worry with this benefits crack down is people who should be on them will be kicked off them by civil service types chasing stats.

Quite right cirian, it's getting harder and harder to get some benefits and that's a shame

 

Jeez, some people could have an argument in an empty room!

[Crapstone]

I feel sorry for people that don't speak out and don't have anyone to fill the forms in. so they just leave it.

[callumsgran]

I feel sorry for people that don't speak out and don't have anyone to fill the forms in. so they just leave it.

Yes i agree, it's the weak and vulnerable that lose out every time!