New Recruit

[Bounce62]

Hello everyone.

 

Well I finally took the plunge and joined up mainly because I'm looking for some reassurance. I'm pleased to say that in relation to my own difficulty, it seems that I am following the right lines after reading some of the postings. I'm no expert and certainly not legally qualified but reasonably au fait with most procedures.

 

One thing that does trouble me is that I have seen a couple of postings suggesting that signatures should not be included on letters to DCAs. Can someone please explain why? Are you suggesting that some DCAs might be tempted to have a go at forging/copying signatures?

 

I have a long running dispute with Lloyds. I asked for copies of a CCA agreement last November and paid the £1.00 fee but before doing so I telephoned the CDR department who admitted that they had no copy of the agreement but refused to confirm this in writing. The only thing they would confirm is that the alleged debt relates to a loan or account (they can't confirm which) I opened on January 1st 1991. How I managed this on a Bank Holiday hasn't been explained. I sent them the CCA request and the £1.00 fee anyway and heard no more from them. Last week I received a letter from a DCA stating that they were acting on behalf of the company that the debt was sold to. I have written to Lloyds CDR stating that they are committing a criminal offence by failing to comply with my CCA request, also pointed out where I believe they are breaching OFT debt collection guidance and also threatening to complain to TS and/or the OFT in line with section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. For good measure I also threatened them with a complaint to the FOS. Having browsed further postings, it never occurred to me that by not having a copy of the agreement they couldn't demonstrate that they had my consent under the Data Protection Act to pass my 'data' to the new DCA.

 

I sent a copy of this letter to the new debt collectors together with another CCA request and another £1.00 postal order. I also stated that I didn't accept that I had any liability or debt to the new 'owners'. However, I signed the letters that I sent.

 

For clarification, it's not statute barred because up until last year I was making payments. However Lloyds upped the ante by appointing debt collectors. When they threatened me with legal action I decided to ask for more information because after a nervous breakdown and clinical depression some years ago I really can't remember what the amount outstanding was for. It seems that they don't know either!

 

Maybe a moderator will move this posting to somewhere more appropriate if this isn't the right forum?

[saintly_1]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

You need to be in the Debt collectors and DCA forum i will see about getting your post moved

[rory32]

Thread moved to Debt Collection Forum.

 

One thing that does trouble me is that I have seen a couple of postings suggesting that signatures should not be included on letters to DCAs. Can someone please explain why? Are you suggesting that some DCAs might be tempted to have a go at forging/copying signatures?

 

This is done as a precaution. There have been a few (and I mean literally a few out of the thousands of members that we have) instances where a photoshop special has been heavily suspected. It is not something I would lose any sleep over.

[Bounce62]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

You need to be in the Debt collectors and DCA forum i will see about getting your post moved

 

Thank you saintly_1.

 

Perhaps I should have read the posting instuctions more clearly.

 

What a fantastic resource this site is!

[Hippy-chick]

Hi bounce

 

Just sticking my head around the door to say hi and welcome. I came here as a very frightened person a couple of months ago. Being here, reading posts and posting has changed all that.

 

I'm not an expert - I'm relatively new here - but surely, folk, if bounce has CCAd them an they have not complied then the debt is in dispute? So Lloyds should not be passing it on?

 

Without a valid CCA it is not enforceable.

 

In addition, if they will not say what this debt is for - why are you paying it? If I told you that you owed me money, would you just hand it over to me. I think there's a case for an SAR here -which costs £10, but would tell you everything. Then again (thinking out loud) without a valid CCA after 12+2 days the debt is not enfoceable.

 

Personally, I'm all for facing up to debt and paying what I owe. But I like to know that I owe it, and do not overpay.

 

I'd be tempted to SAR them, see what you owe and what is charges, the nmake an offer you can afford.

 

What does everybody else think?

[shane5408]

Hi Bounce,

 

I wouldn't worry to much about the new DCA, if Lloyds have already admitted there is no agreement the DCA hasn't a hope, they will most likely close the account on their system and pass it back to Lloyds.

 

What I suggest you do is contact your local TS, Lloyds remain in default of the CCA request after 12 days of receiving it and after a further 1 month has passed they commit a summary criminal offence. I think pressure from TS and a strongly worded letter from you should be enough for them to acknowledge in writing they hold no agreement making the debt irredeemably uneforcable. Also mention to TS that Lloyds have breached the OFT Guidelines on debt collection by failing to halt all action while a valid dipute is in place.

 

If you think there are any charges on the account then also send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Lloyds to ascertain the full extent and begin claiming them back.

 

If you get hassled by the DCA just post up details and we can advise further

 

kind regards,

shane

 

 

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

[rory32]

If you think there are any charges on the account then also send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Lloyds to ascertain the full extent and begin claiming them back.

 

This would be pointless if the charges are less than the sum owing on the account as the charges would be refunded to the account.

[Bounce62]

Hi Bounce,

 

I wouldn't worry to much about the new DCA, if Lloyds have already admitted there is no agreement the DCA hasn't a hope, they will most likely close the account on their system and pass it back to Lloyds.

 

What I suggest you do is contact your local TS, Lloyds remain in default of the CCA request after 12 days of receiving it and after a further 1 month has passed they commit a summary criminal offence. I think pressure from TS and a strongly worded letter from you should be enough for them to acknowledge in writing they hold no agreement making the debt irredeemably uneforcable. Also mention to TS that Lloyds have breached the OFT Guidelines on debt collection by failing to halt all action while a valid dipute is in place.

 

If you think there are any charges on the account then also send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Lloyds to ascertain the full extent and begin claiming them back.

 

If you get hassled by the DCA just post up details and we can advise further

 

kind regards,

shane

 

 

____________________________________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

 

Hi Shane

 

Thanks for the reply. The new DCA claim to be working on behalf of the company that the alleged debt was sold to. So if anyone, they will pass it back to them I would have thought. I'm assuming that Lloyds sold it on in the knowledge they couldn't enforce it and it was purchased by a company who are willing to try all manner of pressure tactics to get a return on their 'investment'.

 

I'm not certain that an SAR would throw up any information about charges given that Lloyds CDR went back to my original branch to ask for more information after I first contacted them. Apparently all documnetation in relation to any accounts I held at the branch have long since been destroyed. I appreciate this may be a ruse to prevent me querying what the debt actually is but I don't think they have any information at all. They can't tell me whether it's a loan or an o/d but as both would have been regulated agreements under the CCA there would (or should) have been supporting documentation.

 

The new DCA has said that they will provide information if requested but all I'm interested in at the moment is a CCA agreement. If they manage to find one then I think I'd probably SAR them straight after they produced it.

[shane5408]

Hi Shane

 

Thanks for the reply. The new DCA claim to be working on behalf of the company that the alleged debt was sold to. So if anyone, they will pass it back to them I would have thought. I'm assuming that Lloyds sold it on in the knowledge they couldn't enforce it and it was purchased by a company who are willing to try all manner of pressure tactics to get a return on their 'investment'.

 

I'm not certain that an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) would throw up any information about charges given that Lloyds CDR went back to my original branch to ask for more information after I first contacted them. Apparently all documnetation in relation to any accounts I held at the branch have long since been destroyed. I appreciate this may be a ruse to prevent me querying what the debt actually is but I don't think they have any information at all. They can't tell me whether it's a loan or an o/d but as both would have been regulated agreements under the CCA there would (or should) have been supporting documentation.

 

The new DCA has said that they will provide information if requested but all I'm interested in at the moment is a CCA agreement. If they manage to find one then I think I'd probably S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them straight after they produced it.

 

It isn't by any chance Phoenix Recoveries on behalf of Marlin Financial is it? Phoenix can be a real nightmare I've found.

 

With regard to documentation there are differences in requirements depending on whether or not the debt was a loan or overdraft. Though both are regulated by the Act the latter is exempt from section v subject to an OFT Determination order, subsequently the creditor has no legal requirement to hold a credit agreement. However, IMO with overdrafts the creditor is required to of sent you notification of the general terms of the agreed overdraft when it was applied, ie Credit limit, repayments, rate of interest etc, this information (which I highly doubt they have) can be furnished by way of a SAR. Regardless though if they have admitted they haven't got any of the documentation relating to the debt they cannot enforce it.

 

kind regards,

shane

 

 

 

_________________________ ___________________

All advice is offered freely & without prejudice

 

If my post has been useful to you please click the scales

[Bounce62]

It isn't by any chance Phoenix Recoveries on behalf of Marlin Financial is it? Phoenix can be a real nightmare I've found.

 

kind regards,

shane

 

Marlin Financial on behalf of Arrow Global.

[Bounce62]

Hello again.

 

Well, I've now had a reply from Lloyds to my complaint. They have now confirmed in writing that "...we no longer hold a copy of your application due to the age of the account." The response failed to address any of the bank's failures under the OFTs Debt Collection guidance. Should I write back to require that these specific points are addressed or simply pass the matter to TS or do both and make a complaint to the FOS if the responses still aren't satisfactory?

 

The letter also states that "The rights and responsibilities to the account were sold to the agents....and therefore any questions relating to the account should be referred to them." If that's the case, if there is no copy of an agreement how would anyone know what "the rights and responsibilities to the account" were or are likely to be and, more importantly on what basis do/will they attempt enforcement as I am fully expecting that they won't let a simple matter of the law preventing them taking further action get in their way?

 

The fact that Lloyds sold the debt on doesn't detract from the fact that they didn't comply with my first CCA and appear to be in breach of the OFTs guidance too. Seems like an attempt at shifting the blame now?

 

Marlin still haven't replied to my CCA request but I now know that they can't because there isn't one! Their time limit will be up by the end of the month. Looking at some of the posts on here, the fact that they'll be committing an offence is no reason for them not to continue with their harassment!

 

Can I expect a spurious County Court Claim in the post in time for Christmas? seem quite probable given some of the postings in this forum.

 

At no point have Lloyds advised me that they were assigning the alleged debt; the first I knew was when Marlin contacted me and that was a full year after I sent my CCA to Lloyds. If there's no copy of the agreement, how do they demonstrate that they have my consent to pass on my details to a third party under the DPA?

 

Hope someone can offer some input?

 

Regards Bounce62

[Curlyben]

Well I wouldn't worry as without an executed agreement any court action is futile and easily defended.

Now once Marlin write back to you simply send them a copy of the LTSB letter.

I have a few that would suit, just shout.

Until they wait and see what they have to say.