Hello again. Well, I've now had a reply from Lloyds to my complaint. They have now confirmed in writing that "...we no longer hold a copy of your application due to the age of the account." The response failed to address any of the bank's failures under the OFTs Debt Collection guidance. Should I write back to require that these specific points are addressed or simply pass the matter to TS or do both and make a complaint to the FOS if the responses still aren't satisfactory? The letter also states that "The rights and responsibilities to the account were sold to the agents....and therefore any questions relating to the account should be referred to them." If that's the case, if there is no copy of an agreement how would anyone know what "the rights and responsibilities to the account" were or are likely to be and, more importantly on what basis do/will they attempt enforcement as I am fully expecting that they won't let a simple matter of the law preventing them taking further action get in their way? The fact that Lloyds sold the debt on doesn't detract from the fact that they didn't comply with my first CCA and appear to be in breach of the OFTs guidance too. Seems like an attempt at shifting the blame now? Marlin still haven't replied to my CCA request but I now know that they can't because there isn't one! Their time limit will be up by the end of the month. Looking at some of the posts on here, the fact that they'll be committing an offence is no reason for them not to continue with their harassment! Can I expect a spurious County Court Claim in the post in time for Christmas? seem quite probable given some of the postings in this forum. At no point have Lloyds advised me that they were assigning the alleged debt; the first I knew was when Marlin contacted me and that was a full year after I sent my CCA to Lloyds. If there's no copy of the agreement, how do they demonstrate that they have my consent to pass on my details to a third party under the DPA? Hope someone can offer some input? Regards Bounce62

Marlin Financial on behalf of Arrow Global.

Hello Sonway Whilst Protection from Harassment Act 1997 could be a possibility, I would suggest that Section 40 of The Administration of Justice Act 1970 is the appropriate legislation. The reason I suggest this is because Section 40 is concerned with 'Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors'. Section 40 (1) states "A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract, he - (a) harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation; (b) falsely represents. in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedingslie for failure to pay it: © falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or (d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not. (2) A person may be guilty of an offence by virtue of sub-section (1)(a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such action as is described in that paragraph, not withstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment. (3) Sub-section (1)(a) does not apply to anything doen by a person which is reasonable (and otherwise permissible in law) for the purpose - (a) of securing the discharge of an obligation due, or believed by him to be due, to himself or to other persons for whom he acts or protecting himself or them from future loss; or (b) of the enforcement of any liability by legal process A complaint to Trading Standards is the starting point but you could consider a private prosecution in the Magistrates Court. YOU MUST SEEK LEGAL ADVICE IF YOU WISH TO CONSIDER AND OR PURSUE THE LATTER.

Most bailiffs aren't interested in taking your stuff, what they are there for is to get their hands on cold hard cash unless they are there to repossess an item that's subject to an HP agreement for instance, even then they need an order from the court to do so. Bailiffs have very few powers to enter premises by force. They can only force entry after they had gained peacefull entry on an earlier visit and levied distress and only if they are being prevented from entering by the debtor. It's worth noting that a bailiff opening an unlocked door or window could be classed as gaining peacefull entry so if you're expecting a visit make sure everything is locked! Business premises are a different matter though. Bailiffs collecting fines imposed by the magistrates or Crown Courts do have the power to force entry where it is reasonably required. The 'cannon fodder' caller sent by a DCA has no right of entry at all.

Hi Shane Thanks for the reply. The new DCA claim to be working on behalf of the company that the alleged debt was sold to. So if anyone, they will pass it back to them I would have thought. I'm assuming that Lloyds sold it on in the knowledge they couldn't enforce it and it was purchased by a company who are willing to try all manner of pressure tactics to get a return on their 'investment'. I'm not certain that an SAR would throw up any information about charges given that Lloyds CDR went back to my original branch to ask for more information after I first contacted them. Apparently all documnetation in relation to any accounts I held at the branch have long since been destroyed. I appreciate this may be a ruse to prevent me querying what the debt actually is but I don't think they have any information at all. They can't tell me whether it's a loan or an o/d but as both would have been regulated agreements under the CCA there would (or should) have been supporting documentation. The new DCA has said that they will provide information if requested but all I'm interested in at the moment is a CCA agreement. If they manage to find one then I think I'd probably SAR them straight after they produced it.

Thank you saintly_1. Perhaps I should have read the posting instuctions more clearly. What a fantastic resource this site is!

Hello everyone. Well I finally took the plunge and joined up mainly because I'm looking for some reassurance. I'm pleased to say that in relation to my own difficulty, it seems that I am following the right lines after reading some of the postings. I'm no expert and certainly not legally qualified but reasonably au fait with most procedures. One thing that does trouble me is that I have seen a couple of postings suggesting that signatures should not be included on letters to DCAs. Can someone please explain why? Are you suggesting that some DCAs might be tempted to have a go at forging/copying signatures? I have a long running dispute with Lloyds. I asked for copies of a CCA agreement last November and paid the £1.00 fee but before doing so I telephoned the CDR department who admitted that they had no copy of the agreement but refused to confirm this in writing. The only thing they would confirm is that the alleged debt relates to a loan or account (they can't confirm which) I opened on January 1st 1991. How I managed this on a Bank Holiday hasn't been explained. I sent them the CCA request and the £1.00 fee anyway and heard no more from them. Last week I received a letter from a DCA stating that they were acting on behalf of the company that the debt was sold to. I have written to Lloyds CDR stating that they are committing a criminal offence by failing to comply with my CCA request, also pointed out where I believe they are breaching OFT debt collection guidance and also threatening to complain to TS and/or the OFT in line with section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. For good measure I also threatened them with a complaint to the FOS. Having browsed further postings, it never occurred to me that by not having a copy of the agreement they couldn't demonstrate that they had my consent under the Data Protection Act to pass my 'data' to the new DCA. I sent a copy of this letter to the new debt collectors together with another CCA request and another £1.00 postal order. I also stated that I didn't accept that I had any liability or debt to the new 'owners'. However, I signed the letters that I sent. For clarification, it's not statute barred because up until last year I was making payments. However Lloyds upped the ante by appointing debt collectors. When they threatened me with legal action I decided to ask for more information because after a nervous breakdown and clinical depression some years ago I really can't remember what the amount outstanding was for. It seems that they don't know either! Maybe a moderator will move this posting to somewhere more appropriate if this isn't the right forum?