Putting the record straight

[legaladviser]

If perky is prepared to have this issue decided one way or the other in a fair fight, with no previous track record or decision overhang, he will supply me as requested with details of a new defendant and we will have the battle fairly and squarely. The invitation is there. If he is as confident of his case as he says he will have no difficulty taking up the challenge and if he is right he will be just as likely to win a fresh case as one he has already won with presumably a deficient defence. Then neither side can say the other has an unfair advantage. But I fully expect more waffle, bluff and bluster, which perky seems to excel in.

 

On the plus side for every minute he is here he is not out slapping tickets on some poor unfortunate's car, so let's keep him talking.

 

If nothing else this thread will ensure that when someone puts "combined parking solutions" into a serarch engine they will see this thread and hopefully go to Pepipoo where support awaits. Hopefully they will have a laugh too for parts of the thread are very funny. In addition it is clear that Pepipooers will now be hanging around this site to ensure that the debate is balanced and not dominated by perky and his loyal band of acolytes.

[legalhawk]

I cant seem to win here ...

 

legaladvisor stated he wanted the details for the appeal, I offered this to him.

 

Now he states it is harder to get a judgement reversed than a new one ... The law is the law, if your argument will work in a defence the same will work in an appeal.

 

If you can presuade the court that there are grounds to suspect ticket is unlawful and unenforceable and the original court made a mistake, then an appeal will be granted ... no questions.

 

You keep going on about how sure you are they are un-enforcebale ... this is now your chance to get an open hearing.

 

You can only appeal about errors in law, not in fact. Therefore, an appeal on a case in which the necessary evidence was not introduced has no meaning.

 

How do you think, you can you appeal a case on the basis that there is a non-existence of a contract if the defendant did not raise the issue in the case before? The necessary facts cannot be introduced after the fact. The court will never set the case aside, nor will an appeals court ever hear it.

 

Disclaimer: This message has the sole purpose of discussing law in general, it does not represent legal advice in any manner.

[Guest perky88]

With 1 exception legaladvisor.

 

We have taken cases to court and WON

 

legaladvisor offered to take a case, lost to an appeal - I gave him the details and now he says he wants a new case.

 

He is very well aware, I CANNOT disclose details of a 3rd party to him - if a case has gone to court then I can as its a public document.

 

legaladvisor stated "Perky88, I challenge you to send me by PM the details of the losing defendant NAME REMOVED in your case. I will then either appeal on his behalf or get the judgement set aside so that he can receive a proper defence."

 

I have offered this to him... He then decides to change his request ...

 

He now wants me to give him details of a driver/case, yet to be heard - something he knows we are not allowed to do ... so he knows full well we cant do this as their details are protected under data protection legislation.

 

As for Nialls comment that the only people we take to court are our friends ??? What evidence have you to state this ??? the answer is none as its complete rubbish ...

I posted to member gwc1000 on Sunday morning (09:56, before the likes of legaladvisor and muggabee got involved) 2 cases on different courts, different parts of the country.

 

The fact from a legal viewpoint is ... If a case can be defended sucsessfully at the 1st court then it will work at the second.

 

The case of vine vs london borough of waltham forrest, the very case legaladvisor will refer to on many occasions if it ever went to court was an APPEAL ... so the very thought of having more chance with a clean case is ... well ... crazy to say the least.

 

In reality, the higher judge level will have more legal knowledge than the deputy district judge (who we ALL know, not just from parking but other things) give out strange decisions.

 

More time will be given to the hearing, rather than the converbelt of the small claims court.

 

This will be a LEGAL argument .. so the higher court the better ... there is no doubt.

 

The reality is, legaladvisor knows FULL WELL that his argument will fail, he has the opportunity to do it - I have spoken to a person who we won against and they are HAPPY for the appeal to be put forward.

 

So all systems go .. EXCEPT the person who said his argument would ALWAYS win - doesnt want to progress it and show to the world that the tickets are enforceable.

 

 

No matter what anyone states, I have shown that cases are taken to court and WON (you may argue all you want about bad defences, it being our friends etc..) .. BUT the real truth is we KNOW (as we have the cases to back it up) that tickets we take to court are 100% enforcebale if issued correctly and signage correct.

 

We posted the transcript of the judgement and offered to do post more ... FACT ...

 

Should legaladvisor (or anyone else) want to take up an appeal for a case we have taken to court and won .. then just PM me and we can discuss.

 

As jonho said ... (and it is unusual for him to say anything of value) ... if you lose then you've lost a few quid .. if you win then it could be the end of all PPCs ...

[Guest perky88]

You can only appeal about errors in law, not in fact. Therefore, an appeal on a case in which the necessary evidence was not introduced has no meaning.

 

How do you think, you can you appeal a case on the basis that there is a non-existence of a contract if the defendant did not raise the issue in the case before? The necessary facts cannot be introduced after the fact. The court will never set the case aside, nor will an appeals court ever hear it.

 

If you read the transcript of the original case, the argument was no contract existed ... so the appeal would be on a point of law.

 

The other cases I have offered have been about "I never saw the signs .. so I cant be held by them" - again the appeal would be on the basis of an error in the law.

 

Next excuse not to hear a case I have offered ????

[Muggerbee]

Perky

 

I'm honestly not being derogatory to you or any of your clients, that is i believe the correct term for people a business provides a service to and charges them for, but standing up in court with one side saying quote "I never saw the signs" and tho other side saying "yes he did judge, they're big and red and hers a picture of them" is hardling ground breaking legal argument, it's the complete lack of LAW in both positions that amazes me and that a member of the judiciary would let such playground arguments into his court. Although in all probability he looked at the defence statement and thought, i can see why they chose to serve on this one !!

 

The whole point of this consultation is, i believe, for you to offer up one of your sacrificial lambs to see if your bluster withstands proper representation, obviously you would have to use a straight copy of your POC from a previoous N1 for this to be valid.

[legalhawk]

If you read the transcript of the original case, the argument was no contract existed ... so the appeal would be on a point of law.

 

The other cases I have offered have been about "I never saw the signs .. so I cant be held by them" - again the appeal would be on the basis of an error in the law.

 

Next excuse not to hear a case I have offered ????

 

Since I am not privy to the original transcript, I obviously did not refer to it. I just made a general statement of law. The point is that you don't start on a neutral ground, when you start at an appeal.

 

However, how did you as the plaintiff, argue that a contract did exist, or how did the judge reason that it did?

[Muggerbee]

P.S.

 

I really would like to see the N1,POC continuance and defence statement accompanying

the "judgement" you posted, just so we have a complete picture.

[legalhawk]

P.S.

 

I really would like to see the N1,POC continuance and defence statement accompanying

the "judgement" you posted, just so we have a complete picture.

 

Where is this ominous judgment?

[Guest perky88]

Perky

 

I'm honestly not being derogatory to you or any of your clients, that is i believe the correct term for people a business provides a service to and charges them for, but standing up in court with one side saying quote "I never saw the signs" and tho other side saying "yes he did judge, they're big and red and hers a picture of them" is hardling ground breaking legal argument, it's the complete lack of LAW in both positions that amazes me and that a member of the judiciary would let such playground arguments into his court. Although in all probability he looked at the defence statement and thought, i can see why they chose to serve on this one !!

 

The whole point of this consultation is, i believe, for you to offer up one of your sacrificial lambs to see if your bluster withstands proper representation, obviously you would have to use a straight copy of your POC from a previoous N1 for this to be valid.

 

In most of our cases the defence is "There was no contract, I didnt see the signs or consent to the terms".- this would be the legal point you would be addressing in court and the basis of an appeal (the law regarding contract acceptance was not applied correctly and therefore the invoice not enforceable because of ............)

 

I simply can not disclose details of persons who have not gone to court .. I would be breaking data protection regulations... A case that has already been heard the document is public, I can refer you to it and then ask the person if they want to appeal with your help.

 

I dont think any other PPC would be doing this for you, I want to get it cleared up once and for all ... if people on here are too pig headed or stupid to realise that .. then I cant do anything about that.

 

We keep notes of ALL our cases and the defences used ... I am more than happy if you want me to look through for a defence that you feel was badly argued (on a point of law) and then an appeal can be fought on that ground.

 

Just tell me what youre looking for ... if we havent had one I will tell you .. If we have then I will .. simple - I will then contact that person and ask if they are willing to participate.

 

Your arguments in court would be the SAME for an appeal and a first hearing .. Legal Arguments with a DDJ are sometimes lost for a variety of reasons (time/knowledge etc..) - a higher judge is a different ballgame and if your legal basis is stronger you will win .. if not .. you will lose.

[Guest perky88]

Since I am not privy to the original transcript, I obviously did not refer to it. I just made a general statement of law. The point is that you don't start on a neutral ground, when you start at an appeal.

 

However, how did you as the plaintiff, argue that a contract did exist, or how did the judge reason that it did?

 

 

The judgement has been removed from here .. but I am sure someone has it somewhere .... if you cant find it, then PM me and I can resend you the link to imageshack.

[Muggerbee]

In most of our cases the defence is "There was no contract, I didnt see the signs or consent to the terms".- this would be the legal point you would be addressing in court and the basis of an appeal (the law regarding contract acceptance was not applied correctly and therefore the invoice not enforceable because of ............)

 

I simply can not disclose details of persons who have not gone to court .. I would be breaking data protection regulations... A case that has already been heard the document is public, I can refer you to it and then ask the person if they want to appeal with your help.

 

I dont think any other PPC would be doing this for you, I want to get it cleared up once and for all ... if people on here are too pig headed or stupid to realise that .. then I cant do anything about that.

 

We keep notes of ALL our cases and the defences used ... I am more than happy if you want me to look through for a defence that you feel was badly argued (on a point of law) and then an appeal can be fought on that ground.

 

Just tell me what youre looking for ... if we havent had one I will tell you .. If we have then I will .. simple - I will then contact that person and ask if they are willing to participate.

 

Your arguments in court would be the SAME for an appeal and a first hearing .. Legal Arguments with a DDJ are sometimes lost for a variety of reasons (time/knowledge etc..) - a higher judge is a different ballgame and if your legal basis is stronger you will win .. if not .. you will lose.

 

 

OK point 1.. The N1 and POC were rasied and issued by you, they are not held electronically on systems managed by you, but thats an aside as we are not requesting personal data of any individual.

 

Point 2 if it's a matter of public record can we please have the case numbers, court of issue (I assume Northampton) and court of judgement

 

I just can't see why if you were so chuffed about the judgement you posted it right away without referring to the AUP of the forum that you ,now you know it's naughty to post real names, cannot post a copy of your POC and the defence with the real names obscurred ?

[legalhawk]

Perky,

 

You claim that merely seeing your signage constitutes an acceptance of a contract. You also claim that because the terms of the contract were accepted by this, they are unchallengeable even so the charge is substantially higher than any public parking. Therefore the amount of the charge is irrelevant as a point of law.

 

Since it is irrelevant, why not put £1,000,000 as the parking charge. Since the amount is irrelevant this should still be in your reasoning a valid and enforceable contract, right?

[neil24103]

i think the only way to prove they are enforceable is for someone to go and get a ticket from one of the carparks he runs and tell him you.ll see him in court (got any in bradford?)

[Guest perky88]

were going round and round in circles here.

 

Let me know if you want to appeal a case and I will happily send you information (after speaking with defendant, obviously).

 

Tell me the month you want and I will give you a list .. YOU can then choose one (please do by PM as it will contain names).

 

I will then contact defendant and if they are OK with it ... you're away....

 

 

Anyway .. Ive wasted enough time on this ... the offer is there, I am NOT going to discuss therioes as they get no where and are pointless. (legalhawk you hoined too late and Im too tired to start the process again and I very much doubt you will have anything of real substance to offer).

 

Lets goto court with one of the cases on appeal, argue it on your legal points and lets see the outcome ... nice and simple ....

 

I suspect the real reason is ... when it comes down to it, the likes of legaladvisor has their theories and are too scared to put them to the test (crap about better with a clean case than appeal .. really dont hold water).

 

IT WAS LEGALADVISOR WHO STATED HE WANTED TO APPEAL A CASE .. I GAVE HIM ONE AND HE CHANGED HIS MIND !!!!!

[Guest perky88]

Well there's a surprise. It appears the possibility for a PM between me and old perky (who is probably not to perky at this point) has been severed. Yes indeed, no details of old downtrodden Mr Blackburn have materialised from our private parking/cafe magnate. Despite Perky's bravado and rock solid position, it appears when faced with the ultimatum he delighted in giving others, he could not bring himself to have the matter properly tested in court. No doubt we will have a whole host of disciples on here making excuses for him. But a reasonable person will see that the private parking [problematic] are indeed all empty threats and no legal legs to stand on.

 

I have PMd you .... come on .. lets get the appeal started ..

 

You asked for it, I have supplied .... come on ... stand up and be counted and put your therioes to the test, if you have the balls to do it ... which I very much doubt.

 

The forum is waiting .. lets take it to court, as YOU wanted and asked for .. then had the cheeck to say I was backing down for not replying quick ...

 

Its there ... come on legaladvisor ... I suspect you are not a lawyer after all, just an armchair one ... dont worry, I am sure people will assist you in the funding of it . so it wont have to come out of your income support.

 

And if you win .. you may get it all back ... and as youre so confident (well, we will see) ... will be a walk in the park !!

[legalhawk]

were going round and round in circles here.

 

Well, let's make it simple and argue on legal authority. What is the legal authority that sets aside Felthouse v. Brindley and allows a contract with a non-communicated acceptance just by seeing a signage?

 

Simple enough?

[gwc1000]

I do think it is best to let perky go on his merry way believing himself to be right. Arguing with him is pointless as he has some victories under his belt. I do believe the cases he cites are genuine and he does continue to win his cases. Which is the reason he can shout from the rooftops that PPC charges are legally enforceable. It will only be when, (and I feel the day will come, someday) when he is up against somebody with a very good understanding of the law, and they put forward a strong defence, he will fail in a case. Until that day comes (very soon I hope) he will not listen. Remember, every dog has his day.

[Muggerbee]

So what you're saying is that you, despite all your crowing will not provide even the case numbers of your "victories" , it's really nice playing with you perky, but there has to be some substance, as you say it's not 1 glove fits all and each case should be considered on it's merits, but without any comparisons there is only 1 case.

 

If as you keep saying "these are a matter of public record" then please do your civic duty and expose each and every one of them to public appraisal.

 

If they are non existent and/or of dubious legality then be man enough to say that you pulled a flanker on a poor minded soul and the DJ had no opportunity but to rule on the points of law as submitted.

 

It all reminds me far to much of the late Mr Pieman of Burnley who you can read all about tomorrow in the lancashire telegraph's retraction of a story written about someone very similar to yourself who manged to con the press with the same story.

[Guest perky88]

Heres 2 cases on my desk at moment ..

 

Coventry County Court - 7QZ80996 , hearing date 31st October 2007 with District Judge Aikman.

 

Harrogate County Court - 7QZ73627, hearing date 16th November 2007 with District Judge Teeman.

 

Any takers ... both argued they didnt see the signage so can't be held to it .. the VERY point of law you so called experts want to argue on.

 

They also argued it was a penalty and not a charge as disproportnate etc... so even more points of law for you to question.

 

Both were defended and took the full 1hr allocated time.

 

Dont like any of those 2 ... tell me and I will post a few more for you to choose from ....

 

Come on ....

[Muggerbee]

Heres 2 cases on my desk at moment ..

 

Coventry County Court - 7QZ80996 , hearing date 31st October 2007 with District Judge Aikman.

 

Harrogate County Court - 7QZ73627, hearing date 16th November 2007 with District Judge Teeman.

 

Any takers ... both argued they didnt see the signage so can't be held to it .. the VERY point of law you so called experts want to argue on.

 

They also argued it was a penalty and not a charge as disproportnate etc... so even more points of law for you to question.

 

Dont like any of those 2 ... tell me and I will post a few more for you to choose from ....

 

Come on ....

 

FELTHOUSE v BRINDLEY

Felthouse offered to buy his nephews horse and wrote, "If I hear no more about him I shall consider the horse to be mine". The nephew made no reply but asked the Auctioneer to withdraw the horse from a sale as it was sold to Felthouse. The Auctioneer mistakenly included the horse in the sale. Felthouse sued Brindley (Auctioneer) for conversion.

It was held Felthouse had no claim as the nephews acceptance had not been communicated to him.

 

Case law generally overules rumours at the dogfights in the caravan park

well when it's presented to the DJ it does

 

I take it this was raised as point 1 in the defence, verbatim, in thos cases you cite ?

[Guest perky88]

yadder,yadder,yadder ....

 

So many cases ... so many therioes... but NO real cases of these theories being used in a defence to a PPC and winning ...

 

Come on muggerbee, you asked for more cases and I have posted them... you havent commented on them just posted a case to which the last poster referred to. (so you know how to use google ... great)

 

Do you want more cases ... what do you want exactly ..

 

Ah ... every case has been defended badly and no legal argument put - lawerman and people on here will be able to give an argument that no-one else can and they will win ... BUT NOT FORGETTING .. they have been given the chance and not taken it !!!

 

Work with the defendant and win one of these on appeals .. I am sure they will love not paying the £250+ it has cost them to get to court and has been awarded to us .... they will love your "expert" help.

 

And in specific answer to your question .. NO they have not been used as point 1 in the defence .. but you could use it in point 1 of the appeal (on basis law not applied correctly as no offer communicated).

[Guest perky88]

I do think it is best to let perky go on his merry way believing himself to be right. Arguing with him is pointless as he has some victories under his belt. I do believe the cases he cites are genuine and he does continue to win his cases. Which is the reason he can shout from the rooftops that PPC charges are legally enforceable. It will only be when, (and I feel the day will come, someday) when he is up against somebody with a very good understanding of the law, and they put forward a strong defence, he will fail in a case. Until that day comes (very soon I hope) he will not listen. Remember, every dog has his day.

 

But alas, it will be unlikely to be any of the posters on here as they have shown they have no back bone to follow it through and once the gauntlet is thrown down they just make pathetic excuses not to pursue it !!!

[Muggerbee]

yadder,yadder,yadder ....

 

So many cases ... so many therioes... but NO real cases of these theories being used in a defence to a PPC and winning ...

 

Come on muggerbee, you asked for more cases and I have posted them... you havent commented on them just posted a case to which the last poster referred to. (so you know how to use google ... great)

 

Do you want more cases ... what do you want exactly ..

 

Ah ... every case has been defended badly and no legal argument put - lawerman and people on here will be able to give an argument that no-one else can and they will win ...

 

Work with the defendant and win one of these on appeals .. I am sure they will love not paying the £250+ it has cost them to get to court and has been awarded to us .... they will love your "expert" help.

 

And in specific answer to your question .. NO they have not been used as point 1 in the defence .. but you could use it in point 1 of the appeal (on basis law not applied correctly as no offer communicated).

 

I asked for the POC and the defence statement, those bits of paper on your desk, if we need to spend hours Trolling through courts to get details of your crusade against the ignorant it's not really much fun, I'd much rather be helping and supporting the victims of crime than messing about with the causes of it.

 

So to quote a silly arsed looking cuddly toy in a corsa COME ON ...

 

Post the complete history of any of these cases including POC and defence statement plus transcript of judgement, fer pity's sake how difficult can it be for a man of your largesse and immense power

 

Still waiting for a list of managed locations in order to do some mystery shopper tests btw ;-)

[battyboomboom]

So many cases ... so many therioes... but NO real cases of these theories being used in a defence to a PPC and winning ...

 

Now we get to the crux of the matter. There are no cases of losing PPCs where the defendant has a used a proper defence because:

 

The only cases won by PPCs have been improper defences, and

If they suspect there will be a proper defence, they play the %age game and decide not to turn up in court.

[Muggerbee]

Now we get to the crux of the matter. There are no cases of losing PPCs where the defendant has a used a proper defence because:

 

The only cases won by PPCs have been improper defences, and

If they suspect there will be a proper defence, they play the %age game and decide not to turn up in court.

 

Now if you could please explain that to mr perky and his lapdogs

in a manner that gets in and stays in we might get somewhere.