Don Leocornay Vs HSBC

[don leocornay]

just got a call back from my solicitor (the one i have to pay not my neighbour).

 

The FOS are still not going to uphold my complaint.

 

Which is fine. I simply won't accept their judgement and go via another route.

[Docman]

Don

 

Attitude of FOS doesn't surprise me. They don't really know what they are talking about - worse than some of the 'old duffer' DJs.

 

As to your case, is it HSBC's stance that the 'managed loan' is still an overdraft? That can't be right, surely. If it is a loan, then it is covered by the CCA and an agreement is required. I'm afraid that detail won't stop them from taking legal action if DG's get out of the wrong side of the bed one morning - or whatever passes for logic in their tiny brains.

 

You could always try another route though. Apparently, the FSA (that's HSBC's regulator) has a major initative to 'Treat Customers Fairly' which should operate now and be embedded into everything the bank does by December. You could always ask HSBC's top man (the Chief Executive in his ivory tower in Canary Wharf) what the bank is doing to treat you fairly.

 

He will pass your letter to one of his flunkies, so I suggest you copy your letter to the lady at the FSA who is heading up the whole initative. Contact details are -

Sarah Wilson, Director, Treating Customers Fairly,

Financial Services Authority,

25, The North Colonnade, Canary Wharf,

LONDON, E14 5HS

 

Cheers, Doc

[don leocornay]

Doc,

 

That's an inspired idea!

 

It's DG that believe they're chasing an overdraft. But either way they'll nedd documentary proof that that's the case (they don't!). HSBC are saying that I signed it, even though they can pull out every document letter, email, memo, phone call they have on me EXCEPT for the managed loan.

 

My argument is that since they've pulled out so much info (stored on microfiche) then this is their established practise and therefore if I did sign the loan that they must have it stored on microfiche. If they don't then they must never have received one in the first place.

 

Letter to the big boss regarding TCF? Awesome, will look into that!

[Castlebest]

Hiya Don, the other thing to remember is they can prove your credit agreement with a copy of the document from microfiche or even a "reconstituted" document demonstrating what you would have signed BUT strictly speaking as soon as you get to the courtroom stage they will need to produce the actual signed document for the courts inspection .

 

So push them to court and make sure your judge asks for sight of the original signed document .

 

pete

[don leocornay]

Quick update:

 

Neighbour's done a letter for me:

 

"We are satisfied that the loan agreement is unenforceable, any proceedings will be vigourously defended and in the circumstances you may wish to take your client's instructions on discussing matters further on a without prejudice basis or otherwise."

 

Waiting on a reply.

[citizenB]

Nice one don

[don leocornay]

DG wrote back.

 

"We're waiting for the Ombudsman's decision"

 

Although the Ombudsman's decision doesn't matter. To take me to court, they'll still need the original

[mike77]

Hey there Don im currently going through a very similar thing myself with HSBC, I had a managed loan but never signed an agreement for it. I have CCA'd them but obviously they cant provide the document as it doesnt exist!, After a few months of them trying to fob me off they have now written to me saying they will abide by any decision the FOS makes. I'm a little worried that the FOS may not find in my favour but surely without a signed agreement nothing would stand up in court. HSBC have submitted their file to FOS but FOS have said its going to be several months before they can get an adjudicator to look at my case as they are rather busy at the minute!

[Audreygreeneyes]

mike jsut a thought, if you send them a freedom of info request they have to provide that and all and anythign they have on you. it gives you access to all the wee comments they have put that you dont know about....... that might give you even more evidence......

 

and if I am not mistake if they cant produce a signed agreement then the debt is unenforcable ... which means they have to repay it plus interest...... and it might jsut be worth taking them to court...... that wil leb much quicker than waiting for the oft:)

 

my best guess woudl be lets see lba 14 days. the submit the claim.... max 28 days for their defence.... date set for hearing.... posibly 4-6 weeks...

 

do you really think they will go into court without a valid agreement?

[Docman]

Hey there Don im currently going through a very similar thing myself with HSBC, I had a managed loan but never signed an agreement for it. I have CCA'd them but obviously they cant provide the document as it doesnt exist!, After a few months of them trying to fob me off they have now written to me saying they will abide by any decision the FOS makes. I'm a little worried that the FOS may not find in my favour but surely without a signed agreement nothing would stand up in court. HSBC have submitted their file to FOS but FOS have said its going to be several months before they can get an adjudicator to look at my case as they are rather busy at the minute!

 

 

 

Mike

 

As a regulated firm HSBC have no option but to accept a FOS decision, so saying they will abide by it is meaningless. However, a FOS decision is not binding on the applicant ie you.

 

HSBC can and will take you to court without an enforceable CCA in my experience. If they start the proceedings electronically, they do not have to file the papers with the court initially. If the defendant does not submit a defence within 28 days, then HSBC can apply (and wil apply) for a default judgment, which the defendant then has to try to get set aside.

 

On the other hand if a defendant does not hide his head in the sand and stands up to these bullying tactics and files a defence forcing HSBC to produce an enforceable agreement, then they slink away and let the court stay the proceedings.

[nieve]

ditto.. been reading with interest and as our friend doc says. they will file the claim electronicaly and if you do not defend they will enter judgement by default.

 

I defended their 4k overdraft claim with 3k bank charges reclaim. after phoneing the court today: the position is they have not heard back from the claimant solicitors since filing my defence, the 28 days are up and i think i stay.

 

Meanwhile trying full and final settlement offer for £1300. only just sent letter and awaiting reply.

 

hey have a read of my thread

[nieve]

tell me doman, how long can there be stay in the proceedings?? like i said i want to settle the difference out of court.

[hsbcfiddled]

ditto.. been reading with interest and as our friend doc says. they will file the claim electronicaly and if you do not defend they will enter judgement by default.

 

I defended their 4k overdraft claim with 3k bank charges reclaim. after phoneing the court today: the position is they have not heard back from the claimant solicitors since filing my defence, the 28 days are up and i think i stay.

 

Meanwhile trying full and final settlement offer for £1300. only just sent letter and awaiting reply.

 

hey have a read of my thread

 

Is that £3k Charges only, or does it include interest?

[Docman]

tell me doman, how long can there be stay in the proceedings?? like i said i want to settle the difference out of court.

 

As far as I know, the proceedings will be stayed until the claimant (HSBC) revives the claim and pays the court fee (£200) or unless the defendant makes an application on form N244 to have the stay lifted, the claim struck out and summary judgement awarded to the defendant. Fee for filing a N244 application is £75.

 

If you want to settle out of court, you might wait to see if DG write to you again. If you do respond, make sure any letters are headed 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE'.

[nieve]

hi ya, yea ive tried to offer a full & final settlement for the disputed differencem ,no reply as yet.,

[nieve]

hi it was for bank charges, bank interest charges,

[hsbcfiddled]

hi it was for bank charges, bank interest charges,

 

Sorry, I want to know is it £3k of charges?

or have you added interest to the charges and the total comes to £3K?

 

The reason I ask is that £3k of charges plus compounded interest could well exceed the £4k overdraft.

[upto the eyeballs]

subbing, having fun with hsbc myself

 

current situation:-

No CCA

Advised by DG "HSBC don't keep copies of default notices"

HSBC seem to think a Data Prot. S.A.R request is just for copy stements becuase i have submitted a "copy of charges letter????" What Are They Smoking?

 

Mt thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/176523-upto-eyeballs-hsbc-no.html

[nieve]

Sorry, I want to know is it £3k of charges?

or have you added interest to the charges and the total comes to £3K?

 

The reason I ask is that £3k of charges plus compounded interest could well exceed the £4k overdraft.

 

Actually your nearly right.

bank charges £2311 8% interest £593.34 total £2904.34

interest charges £ 540 8% interest £ 150 total £ 691.55

[nieve]

have a look at my thread and reply on there, dont want it to get to confuseing!!

[hsbcfiddled]

Actually your nearly right.

bank charges £2311 8% interest £593.34 total £2904.34

interest charges £ 540 8% interest £ 150 total £ 691.55

 

Why only 8%?

What was their rate of interest applied to you?

[nieve]

Why only 8%?

What was their rate of interest applied to you?

 

 

Hi hsbc fiddled, please could you answer on my thread, otherwise scared of missing what you write thanks nieve

[don leocornay]

crikey, i turn my back for a minute and there's all this activity!

 

Mike. I agree with Docman and nieve. Forget FOS and go to court. HSBC HAVE to provide the original signed agreement.

 

If you look earlier on my thread you'll see the steer I got from a barrister. Basically, unlikely to get your money back but can definitely get it declared unenforceable.

 

update from me? nothing from DG since the last letter sent. Meeting with my neighbour this week to push them for the full works.