The FOS are a total waste of time, they will never find in your favour but if im honest i think the fact that i actually took it down every avenue, including the FOS went in my favour, as HSBC knew that i wasnt going to back down whatsoever. I can give you my solicitor details but if im honest she wasnt brilliant!, I did virtually all of the groundwork myself (well, when i say myself what i actually mean is the very kind people of this forum!) and even though it only took her 2 letters before HSBC agreed, those letters could have come from any solicitor and they would have caved in! If you send me a private message i will give you her details. I dont want to be seen promoting one particular solicitor!

Hi Moloko, It is my understanding that whilst the account is still open then they must be able to provide the signed agreement. Im not too familiar with credit card accounts but im sure someone else will be along shortly to guide you!

Thanks Johnny, I really dont think i would have got this sorted without this site! This forum is priceless and everyone on it is so helpful! If there is anyone else out there who are in a similar situation to what i was in then dont hesitate to ask for any advice. I'm certainly no expert but I'll pass on any information that may help!

Long time no speak everyone!, had massive problems with my PC so logging on has been very difficult indeed! I am the bearer of great news! HSBC have agreed to write off my loan and remove my default! I went through a solicitor around a month ago and Yesterday confirmed they will wipe everything off!!, I cannot tell you how much of a relief this is! My solicitor says she has never had a case settle so quick but she thinks thats mainly because i had done most of the groundwork myself and taken it so far! I'd just like to say a massive thank you to everyone who gave me advice and especially to Johnnymitch, Castlebest and Atwozee. I'm sure ive missed a few names off there but a big thank you to everyone! It just goes to show that if you think you have a case then you must fight it to the end and back the banks into a corner! This really is a new beginning for me as i will never put myself in this position again!

cheers Johnny, it is a strange one!, well apparently it was HSBC that suggested the repayments of £100 a month. It's just that FOS "kindly" passed the information onto me. I'm sure that i have a big case here but it just takes so darn long!, as soon as the solicitor gets in touch with me ill let you know whats happening.

Hello again everyone, Well i finally got a decision from the FOS. They say that the managed loan was not set up correctly and they have suggested 2 options. The first is that HSBC would remove the default from my file and i would pay £100 a month with an interest rate of 1%. The other option is the debt will remain on my file and with HSBC but be free from any interest charges. I am now awaiting for a solicitor to get back to me this week to see what else i can do. The solicitor would take the case on a no win no fee basis so im pretty sure they would only take it if they were 99% certain i would win. Anyway i'll keep everyone updated on here.

Hello again everyone, The solicitor that i got to check the original signed loan agreement has come back to me to say that it is "potentially unenforceable" as it has breached several regulations. Even though this original loan has been satisfied i got it checked because the FOS are saying that they may be advising HSBC to revert to a previous agreement. My solicitor also asked me to request the 2nd agreement as if this is also potentially unenforceable then HSBC will really have nothing to go on. I have today found out that HSBC do not even have the 2nd signed agreement! So put bluntly HSBC have one signed agreement for 3 loans! The solicitor i went to has advised i wait for the FOS's decision before i start any proceedings. I have spoken to the FOS today to ask when they will be coming to a decision but they still havent got a clue!, The FOS really are a waste of time and no wonder the banks couldnt care less if you threaten to report them to them because they dont do anything! They are all just ex bank workers! does anyone have any ideas? im sick of waiting!!!!!!

Thank you Atwozee, I rang the office of fair trading customer services number and was told that because the FOS are already dealing with this they will not speak to me! the woman i rang spoke to the local trading standards whilst i was on the phone and they confirmed this!, well thats what she told me anyway! I spoke to the adjudicator again at the FOS yesterday to say that i was very disappointed with the options that they are suggesting but was merely told that is all they could do!, I said i think i will probably just end up taking this to court as what they are suggesting is not acceptable to me. The adjudicator told me that i can just tell them at any time to stop dealing with it and they will, but for the moment i told them to carry on until they have come to an official decision as I thought this may be best as it gives me a bit more time to get more advice and see where i stand. Oh by the way i forgot to mention. I heard last week that a judge on the manchester circuit ruled in favour of the bank even when the bank could not produce a signed agreement. Apparently he went against what the department of justice has been advising judges to do and this has apparently thrown a spanner in the works for cases similar being heard in the manchester area as there could be a ripple effect of decisions going this way. There is going to be an appeal about it as the judge did not give a very clear indication as to why he ruled for the bank, but not expected to be settled for a few months. I dont know the ins and outs of the case but hoping this is not a precedent. Has anyone else heard about this?

Cheers Johnny! FOS are a waste of space by the looks of it!, legal action it is i think! Would appreciate it if other people could look at the last few posts on todays date to see if there are any other possible solutions?

Thanks again Johnny, forgive my ignorance but what is an LBA again? lol.

Thanks Johnny, I made a note of the time and date of the call as all of their calls are recorded. I should put in a complaint about the FOS really, especially about the fact they have already decided the only options available without even looking at the file in full!! I find it amazing that i may be able to get a loan that i signed for declared unenforceable yet when i dont sign one its a bloody nightmare! I feel that i do have a big case as HSBC are unable to provide a signed loan agreement for the managed loan. As we all know by now this is because i never signed one! Ill see what the solicitor comes back with about the original agreement, if that isnt enforceable then HSBC arent really in a very strong position!

Good morning again everyone, Last week i spoke to the adjudicator at theFOS who is going to be making the decision on my case. I was told that they were still awaiting for some more information back from HSBC and the file had not been properly looked into, however despite this i was told that they would not be recommending the debt be wiped. I was told the only options they would consider would be to either uphold the current managed loan if it was found to have been implemented correctly or, if it hadnt been then they would recommend reverting back to the previous loan. I didnt get into a discussion with the adjudicator about this as i really thought there would be no point. I was actually told that it may be in my best interest to have the managed loan kept in place as "it has zero interest"!!!!!, if i had been eating cornflakes at the time then i think i may have choked on them at this point!!!, I advised that managed loans are most definetly not interest free!, I was told they would look into this!, anyway my point is this. Can the HSCB really revert back to a previous loan that actually now no longer exists?, As a backup i have managed to send my original loan agreement to a solicitor to have it checked for its enforceability. Any ideas anyone?

Hello again everyone, The FOS have still not made a decision on this as yet and HSBC are not prepared to put in writing to me that they dont have a signed agreement. They are saying that as the FOS are currently dealing with this they feel it is best if they await their outcome. I was just wondering if HSBC have the right to pretty much just ignore me until the FOS look at it? I know i should probably just be patient about the FOS but I am certainly not expecting any positive outcome from them so i'm keen to try and get all the evidence i can as soon as possible before i issue court proceedings. I've heard about protocol 4.6 on here and was hoping someone could give me any more information about it. Or if I should just shut up til the FOS decide!

Hi there Valhalla, I too have a managed loan that was sent to MCS, I am currently awaiting for a decision from FOS as HSBC do not have the signed agreement. I'm not an expert but the fact that your wife has a managed "loan" indicates to me that even though the orginal debt was an overdraft this was changed to a loan when the managed loan took effect. Managed loans are highway robbery and they charge much more interest on these so your wife will have had to sign an agreement for this. You need to write to them asking for the signed agreement for the managed loan. In all my communications with HSBC I have pretty much cut MCS out of the equation and sent all my letters straight to HSBC's head office. (MCS are a wholly owned subsiduary of HSBC), I'm sure someone else will come along shortly to give you more accurate information but there should definetly be a signed agreement for the managed loan. Tell HSBC that this account is in dispute until they provide you with the signed agreement and until they do they are unable to chase you for any of the money.

Hey there Johnny, I actually rang back a little later on to make sure it was logged on their system and it was!, I have a name of the person who said it as well, full name too!. It was a little more difficult to get them to put it in writing as all they kept saying was it's being dealt with by another department and they dont take calls! I wouldnt mind a job in customer service where they dont take calls!!!!...I got an email address for that department so ive already requested they put it in writing to me. I live in hope! (oh, and no, i didnt record the call! lol )

Good afternoon everybody!, I've just come off the phone from HSBC complaints as I have still been chasing them for the original signed document even though the FOS are about to look at this case and make a decision. (as i'm sure you know by now there is no signed document)..Anyway, the lady i spoke to said she would ring me back as she had to speak with another department. She was very true to her word and called me back within 5 minutes. She told me,and i quote, "The department that is currently dealing with this have told me that we don't have the original signed agreement" .....Praise the lord!!!, Its only taken them 5 months to finally admit this!!!!, She then went on to say that as the FOS are looking into this they need to wait for them to decide and blah blah blah. Anyway thats finally put my mind at rest that they have finally admitted it! Bring out the trumpets.

Hello again everyone, had a letter from the Financial Ombudsman the other day to say my case has now been assigned to an adjudicator to look at and that if i have any more information that may be helpful i should tell them now. Just rang them and reiterated that not only did i not sign an agreement but i was never even shown one at all. HSBC did not attempt to take any repayments from me and the only contact i had from them about the loan was 16 months later when they advised the account would default in 28 days time. So now i suppose its only a matter of weeks before they come to a decision. I just hope i have a sympathetic adjudicator!

Hello again everyone. Just sent off a letter to the HSBC asking for them to re-assess their stance. I know that they are waiting for the FOS to decide on the case but just thought id give them one more chance to wipe the slate clean. I also advised that should the FOS reach a decision that is not satisfactory to myself then i will be issuing court proceedings. Just thought id let them know that i'm well aware that it is "they" that have to abide by what the FOS say, and not "me". I know its a long shot but as long as they know i'm prepared to take this all the way then its worth it!, by the way does anybody know of a case where there has not been a signed agreement yet the bank won in court?

Hello again people!, Ive spoken to the FOS again recently to ask if there is any further information on when they can look at my complaint and the answer is still "it will probably be a few months before we look at it"... after hearing that the FOS are unlikely to find in my favour from previous posts I'm beginning to wonder what the whole point of going to them is. Does anyone think it would be a good idea to just go down the court proceedings route and drop FOS out of the equation.

Good evening fretful, the address to send your CCA to is: HSBC Bank PLC Service Quality Team Arlington Business Centre Millshaw Park Lane Leeds LS11 0PP I'm sure someone will be along shortly to help you out!

Hey there Don im currently going through a very similar thing myself with HSBC, I had a managed loan but never signed an agreement for it. I have CCA'd them but obviously they cant provide the document as it doesnt exist!, After a few months of them trying to fob me off they have now written to me saying they will abide by any decision the FOS makes. I'm a little worried that the FOS may not find in my favour but surely without a signed agreement nothing would stand up in court. HSBC have submitted their file to FOS but FOS have said its going to be several months before they can get an adjudicator to look at my case as they are rather busy at the minute!

ok thank you, so if the FOS do say it is not upto them to decide if the account is unenforceable and that would be the courts job, if i then took it to court is it likely the courts would find in my favour?, i know this is all ifs and buts but without a signed agreement there is nothing in black and white saying i committed to it.

anyone?

Hello again everyone!, Happy new year and all that jazz. I sent a letter to HSBC as i said i would stating they have still not complied with my CCA request and i now required them to zero the account and remove the default. well i finally got a letter back from them stating that they are preparing for their response to the FOS (as the eight weeks has passed since i first logged my complaint with them). HSBC say they are now going to await what the FOS says and that they will abide by any decision they make. Does anyone know if the FOS would find in my favour purely on the basis that there is no signed agreement? obviously im sure HSBC can detail what loans ive had and show transactions to prove it but is the absence of a signed agreement totally damning for them?

Hey there Freddy, was kinda hoping she would ring me but as yet nothing! ha. Anyway i sent HSBC a letter on 10/12/08 telling them that they have yet to provide me with a copy of the original signed agreement and if they do not send it in 14 days then i will assume that they no longer have it (they dont....i know everyones probably sick of me saying it but i never signed one) i pretty much used the template that rory32 suggested on page one on this thread. I just altered it a little and deleted bits here and there to suit my particular case. Ive also had a letter from the financial ombudsman saying they will look into my complaint and in around 2 months time they will be able to have an adjudicator look at it and decide an outcome.... does anyone think it best if for the moment i let the FOS decide or am i still ok to go ahead and fight HSBC at the same time? Would the FOS decide in my favour purely on the basis of there not being a signed agreement? Im actually starting to bore myself now im waffling that much! It really was a rough weekend!!