I owe a lot!

[loopy_lou1]

But were you in the extent I am in? I have NO capital! No savings! Numerous dca's etc., like I feel like I have no way out at the moment and I think I'm a bit up the creek - even if I do get the CCA requests what then?

 

I have no real idea what I am doing!

[PriorityOne]

Actually, you are in a better position than you think. If you have no assets.... they cannot threaten you with a property charge for a start. When they realise this, they may be more willing to accept your proposals for repayment.... but that's only IF they have a valid CCA in the first place ! If they don't.... they can take a hike.

[shane5408]

But were you in the extent I am in? I have NO capital! No savings! Numerous dca's etc., like I feel like I have no way out at the moment and I think I'm a bit up the creek - even if I do get the CCA requests what then?

 

I have no real idea what I am doing!

 

 

Take a breath Lorna:D If you let it affect you like this then the've already won.

 

My situation was not the same as yours but there are people I'm helping who are predominantly worse off. In one case the dca's were all ready to sell the house of the debtor, and not knowing any better the debtors planned to allow it and move in with their grandparents!! Suffice to say that didn't happen, some debts were written off, some are under mutually agreeed payments plans, you only have to pay what you can afford, nothing more.

 

Start those threads i mentioned, sooner the better, then we can start soring this out

 

regards,

shane

[tomterm8]

OK should I deal with like two at a time or something - I mean produce the letters and deal with it like that - it's a hell of a lot to take in!

 

I am positive or trying to be! I know there's success stories but my debt is PURE overspending and I've learnt the hard way!

 

hey, I'm just going on the fact that by my calculations, I've helped about a dozen people win individual court claims worth in total roughly £200,000 on this site. I've seen people in much worse situations than yours change their life.

 

And the fact that, frankly, if your situation is as you say it, you have absolutly nothing to lose whatsoever... except your parents. Mate, they don't imprison debtors any more, you own nothing... have no savings they can take off you... there is b*g*er all they can actually do to you.

 

they can bluster as much as they want, but judging by the fact you've failed 2 IVA's, and haven't been declared bankrupt, even your creditors know that you can't afford to pay.

 

As for learning stuff... that is what this site is for.

[tomterm8]

As for what to do first... find the CCA template on this site, and send it to each debt that hasn't already got a CCJ. You need send with it a £1 PO, and make sure you request a copy of a statement of account. Use registered post.

[loopy_lou1]

Thanks Tomterm that makes me feel a bit better. I have failed two IVA's and I have no CCJs- yet! I've been threatened with them not had one and no petition for bankrupcy. If I can have as much help as you can give then I just need to know what I am doing through each step which will be this week and I can at least get started.

 

My parents are ok I am still wary of my dad because although he's supportive of me he doesn't support irresponsible lending because he works like a donkey and has a lot on his plate at the moment. I will tell him if I have to but I'd like to avoid - maybe my mother would - she's better at getting round him than I am!

 

Thanks for all your help

 

Once again Shane - cheers hun x

[Hippy-chick]

Hi Lorna

 

You're getting great advice here. But if you want a friendly voice as well, the National Debtline are fantastic:

 

0800 808 4000

 

They'll reinforce what you are being told here. And they are non-judgemental and free.

 

I was in your situation years ago. I finally told my father. Whether you do or not is up to you -I'm not about to tell you how to deal with your folks. But my dad was great. Now, when I get odd problems with old debts I've talked to him once again - and he's helping me fight them.

 

xx

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Loop,

 

Just read your thread, Have the faith and the confidence to to this. You have the help, support and advice of the most knowledgeable experienced caggers posting on your thread.

 

I like yourself started off scared, feeling isolated and so ashamed of my debts. You mention irresponsible spending, well we can all be guilty of this. It is the present culture of the economy and the fault of these irresponsible lenders, who target your accounts.

 

They are employed to monitor accounts and totally love customers who pay the minimum of the balance and when you get near the credit limit, they increase it. And they make millions from us with their interest they slap on. Then when a problem occurs and you find you are in trouble, what do they do, are they understanding, no they threaten and harass you.

 

When I found this site, I started reclaiming back bank charges and educated myself in the dodgy dealings of these financial institutions. At present I am having disputes with most of my creditors for one thing or another. but I am confident now and can really give them some grief now. I have managed to write off one debt and can send the dca's fleeing away (they are little nobodies really) Those creditors who have acted lawfully I pay what I can afford. Those creditors who have not acted lawfully I challenge and it can be a bit like a roller coaster ride.

 

Take heart and listen to the excellent advise you have and will be given, and remember you are just one of thousands of people in debt, you are not alone now, you are a member of cag:D .

[tomterm8]

I already get hundreds of letters begging me for payment so I suppose they'll just increase!

 

I give out my mobile number not my home number so I can monitor the calls.

 

Hm... they mights start phoning your land line, but if it is in your fathers / mothers name that is less likely.

 

I'm just praying that doing the CCA thing will help because I read a thread earlier and my debt is after 2004 so I bet they will have the CCAs.

 

It's worth sending CCA's anyway, since this is the only way you can be sure if the agreement is valid. However, if the agreement rather than the debt was made before 2004, there is a much better chance of them not having the agreement, since most banks policies changed in 2004.

 

So they DO call?!

 

very occasionally, DCA agents do call. the technique is to tell them to go away, and if they refuse call 999 and explain that someone won't leave your home and you are afraid of a breach of the peace.

 

90% of letters saying... we will visit... or we have visted and you were out, lol, are scare tactics hand delivered by the postman. I've even heared of debtors who stayed in their house all day, hoping to give a real life DCA a peice of their mind, who were very disappointed:)

 

I still can't afford £50 a month to HFO with everything else I am paying at the moment.

 

Then you shouldn't pay it.

 

 

Ok well I think I'll see Citizens Advice this week aswell

 

I know CAB does give advice, but I generally recommend the National debt Line as the first point of call. CAB is a general advice charity, that does some very good work, but NDL provides professional quality advisors who are trained specifically in debt.

 

the company that owns NDL also provides training to most of the other debt charities / companies.

 

Really, given an IVA is really not an option for you, you have three main options

 

Court Action

 

By asking people for a CCA, and checking whether (a) they have the right to enforce the debt and (b) whether they have any unlawful charges added (which you do with a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) you are chosing to go down a particular path, which very likely ends up with court action.

 

Now, people do win court actions sometimes, but no-one can guarantee that. The consequences of losing court action (in your case) would probably be that you end up paying a pro-rata amount rather like the debt management plan. your debt would be slightly higher, as court costs would be added.

 

Debt Management Plan

 

A debt management plan is quite a simple arrangement. You first work out what you can afford to pay, after all reasonable expense. in your case, this should include basic money for food etc, and other contributions to your parents costs. It also includes a small amount for luxuries, transport costs to work and medical costs.

 

Once you have written your budget, your first priority is to pay back... eh, priority debts, LOL, such as council tax, water, and any secured debt.

 

Any money left goes on a pro-rata basis to your creditor. So for each creditor you work out the sum;

 

Total Amount You can Pay * ( Creditors Debt / Total Debt) .

 

You then take your statement of affairs (budget, and list of all debts you owe), and fill in this letter http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/temp/5718_49411.pdf

 

and send it to each creditor, along with the first payment.

 

Even if they refuse the offer, you just keep on sending the payment anyway, and ignore their complaints. if you have done the process right, and you don't have a home, there is very little chance of them bringing you to court, because you are paying more money that in reality the court would award them.

 

The real disadvantage with such an approach is that it could take a very long time to repay any debt. Some creditors are likely to continue adding interest and charges, and you might find that after the pro-rata payment is made, you are more or less treading water. In some cases, after a year of payments, you may end up owing more money.

 

the other problem, is that your credit problems will continue to be recorded on your credit record, meaning that may find it difficult to get credit for up to six years after the DMP finishes. Also, DCA's will tend to try to "review" your payments every 6 months. Interest charges and collection charges tend to steaply increase when the debt is almost repaid.

 

Insolvency (AKA bankruptcy)

 

this is a scary option, and not to be chosen without professional advice from one of the debt charities. However, it may be recommended if on a DMP you

 

(a) can barely pay back the interest on your debts or,

(b) cannot expect to repay the money in a reasonable time (less than 6 years) or

© you have no assets that could be taken by the OR and your credit history has been destroyed by defaults / failed IVA's.

 

there are numerous problems with bankruptcy. Firstly, it will be published in the local press (although, no one reads this except [problem] companies who will send you tons of junk mail) .

 

Secondly, and more seriously, an OR will be appointed who will look at your assets and recover what money he can from them (in practice, this tends to mean looking at any house you own / savings / shares etc, rather than basic household furnishings).

 

thirdly, it ends any realistic chance of getting a mortgage or cheap credit for six years... although, since you have 7 defaults and 2 failed IVA's on your credit record, you don't have much chance of either anyway.

 

fourth, if you work, what amounts to an attachment of part of your earnings may be applied for up to three years after the bankruptcy ends. This is likely to be half your disposable income (i.e. income .after basic living costs).

 

the real advantage is that bankruptcy effectively ends your liability to almost all debts (not council tax, student loans, or some fines). You go into court, owing £36,000, and come out of court owing nothing. and some other poor sap (the OR) deals with the debt. Also, in practice insolvency lasts generally for only a year; in your case, it may be much shorter than that.

[loopy_lou1]

OK I am sorting out the paperwork ready to send and then I am going to start my threads. I had a phonecall from a "Mrs White" today. She was obviously from a DCA because she wanted to go through DP with me. I refused and told her to contact me in writing - I don't know which company she was from because she wouldn't divulge it without going through the DP. I told her to contact me in writing and she said she had and I had 72 hours to respond?! I have had no letters from DCA's for the past week - so how can I respond to a letter I haven't received?? Also, I was meant to hear from HFO by today about my Morgan Stanley debt and I've received nothing so far.

 

Thanks everyone. I think I realise now that these people are here to do their jobs - yes - but they're also trained to scare!!!!!!!!

[shane5408]

OK I am sorting out the paperwork ready to send and then I am going to start my threads. I had a phonecall from a "Mrs White" today. She was obviously from a DCA because she wanted to go through DP with me. I refused and told her to contact me in writing - I don't know which company she was from because she wouldn't divulge it without going through the DP. I told her to contact me in writing and she said she had and I had 72 hours to respond?! I have had no letters from DCA's for the past week - so how can I respond to a letter I haven't received?? Also, I was meant to hear from HFO by today about my Morgan Stanley debt and I've received nothing so far.

 

Thanks everyone. I think I realise now that these people are here to do their jobs - yes - but they're also trained to scare!!!!!!!!

 

typical scare tactics, never speak to these people on the phone, only deal in writing. Once you've started the new threads i'll post up a harrasment by phone letter you can send them

 

regards,

shane

[PriorityOne]

Nice to hear you're having none of their rubbish Lorna.... a sign that you're getting stronger.

[loopy_lou1]

You know what? Even though I am still afraid - understandably, I think I can take this on now. When she said it was "Mrs White" - I renamed her Mrs Sh*te for the record - she sounded lovely intially and my mother answered the first call. I told her she was a DCA and I knew it was. When I spoke to her and refused to speak to her I felt better and carried on with my day instead of getting upset. I wish I'd known which company she was from.

 

I know I haven't paid anyone for months because of my unemployment but they still have no right to harrass me at home. I also got calls from Buchanan, Clark and Wells today. On my mobile - I was ready to talk to them to tell them to contact me in writing which I know they have but I want a recent letter as it's been phonecalls for months now!

[shane5408]

When she said it was "Mrs White" - I renamed her Mrs Sh*te for the record quote]

 

Hahaha:D I needed a good laugh today!

 

cheers,

shane

[loopy_lou1]

HFO told me they'd have documentation with me by today and I haven't receieved anything as I said. My mother just came upstairs and they've phoned tonight. She put the phone down and said I wasn't in. At the end of the day they could be ANYONE at this point. I can't CCA them until I receive a letter from them. Which I will await!!!!!!

[vinegarvera]

Just wanted to add my best wishes to you Lou and remember DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE ON THE PHONE from now on.

If you can afford caller I.D I would invest I did and now I know its them when they call. Otherwise they will stress you out.

If you feel stressed come on here for support because they will probably still harras you on the phone. IGNORE THEM!!

or:

Let us know when you are confident enough for messing with them as there are lots of cool tips on here to wind em up!!!!

[shane5408]

HFO told me they'd have documentation with me by today and I haven't receieved anything as I said. My mother just came upstairs and they've phoned tonight. She put the phone down and said I wasn't in. At the end of the day they could be ANYONE at this point. I can't CCA them until I receive a letter from them. Which I will await!!!!!!

 

i don't understand, did they say they would send you a copy of ur agreement over the phone? Don't believe them, make sure you send it in writing recorded delivery, that way you have a strict timeline in place

 

regards,

shane

[loopy_lou1]

Shane, I haven't received ANYTHING in writing from them at ALL! Not even outlining the debt! So as far as I'm concerned they could be strangers asking me for Morgan Stanley's money!

 

As I said apart from two phonecalls I've received nothing official from the b**tards at all.

[loopy_lou1]

I've just received 6 calls in the past 5 minutes from HFO!

She has just said I am a homeowner!!!!!!!! I live with my parents and she mentioned my dad's name! This is his house and she said she is going to put a charge against my property - I wouldn't let her speak we tried to ignore the calls and she spoke to me without taking me through any security. So they've just broken the data protection act, too.

I told her not to DARE speak about my father's house! There's nothing they can do. They can't contact my father because this is HIS house.

I did try to ignore the calls as I said but they persisted with 6 calls!

[shane5408]

I've just received 6 calls in the past 5 minutes from HFO!

She has just said I am a homeowner!!!!!!!! I live with my parents and she mentioned my dad's name! This is his house and she said she is going to put a charge against my property - I wouldn't let her speak we tried to ignore the calls and she spoke to me without taking me through any security. So they've just broken the data protection act, too.

I told her not to DARE speak about my father's house! There's nothing they can do. They can't contact my father because this is HIS house.

I did try to ignore the calls as I said but they persisted with 6 calls!

 

Hi Lorna,

 

HFO are notorious for their underhand phone calls, do not speak to them at all, if by chance you answer a call from them tell them all calls are being recorded this tends to shut them up.

 

you need to send the CCA request to them asap. I realize they haven't sent you anything in writing with regard to the debt but the sooner you send the CCa and they default/ pass it back the original creditor the better.

 

regards.

shane

[loopy_lou1]

OK Shane, do I use the address on the website?

 

And can THEY ignore me? What's the next stage? Because they will persist won't they?

[shane5408]

OK Shane, do I use the address on the website?

 

And can THEY ignore me? What's the next stage? Because they will persist won't they?

 

lol, i just received your pm as i posted that response!

 

Yeah use the following address:

 

HFO Services Limited

PO Box 342

Lavender Park Road

West Byfleet

Surrey KT14 6YX

 

Since they have'nt written to you you won't have their internal referense number so put down morgan stanley account number as a reference on the cca

 

kind regards,

shane

[shane5408]

i would also send them this

 

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded. (**Even if you don‘t yet have recording equipment!!**)

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[NAME HERE]

[hellhasnofury]

Hello,

 

I can see that you are in very good hands,

 

If I get a call from a dca, the first thing I ask is for their full name and ask them to spell it, that normally stopped them from mis-behaving and then you can always quote their name in your complaint.

 

They want you on the phone so they can say all sorts of things, that they would not dare to put in writing.

 

They are very good at threatening all sort of rubbish, because they want to scare you into giving them money. They probably get commission on every payment debtors make to them. So it really naffs them off, when you don't co-operate. Just tell them you are not prepared to discuss any private matter over the phone and anything they want to say to put it in writing.

 

I used to be terrified to answer the phone, now I absolute love it, feeling them squirm on the phone gives me great pleasure.

 

Try it you may surprised yourself.

[loopy_lou1]

I would love it if it wasn't my DAD's house! I'd tell her to f**k off!

 

I'm going to tell him later that I am being harrassed. He knows about 1 of the debts - he doesn't need to know everything. It's my problem.

 

I've just spoken to the National Debt Helpline, oh my God. How great do I feel right now?

 

The b**tards haven't got a leg to stand on being bullies like they are. I can report them to the OFT because they've harrassed me and didn't go through through DP with me. She just fired stuff at me. They can be closed down for the way they act. I don't know how they're still in business.

 

I went through everything with a lovely girl called Leigh who was amazing and re-iterated everything you guys have said. I told her all about you and she was agreeing that you're all great and have given me accurate and supportive advice.

 

I will CCA the companies and I won't pay until I receive the CCAs - I'll do it tomorrow. As for the "house" thing about my father. OMG - she told me I have grounds for a serious complaint - any debt in my sole name is my sole responsibility as you have all told me. They can't touch this house or inform my father or employer. They can CCJ me but at the end of the day that's a minimal thing.

 

I am considering my options at the moment. I am going to do a token payment plan for now IF I get the CCAs - if not BK here I come. I don't feel half as bad now as I did - I just hate the calls. 6 in 5minutes! It's driving my poor mother crazy - she's worried sick but I've explained the situation to her. She's starting to understand but what happens when I am at work? Poor thing. She shouldn't have to deal with that.

 

Anyway, I'll just have to wait it out.