Robinson, Way & Company ltd

[heavenly1]

Hi All

 

These people have finally written back to me with a response to the cca request I sent 18th May 2007.

 

I have tried to see If there has been anyone else that has received the same response but no luck.

 

This is the letter I got today dated 10th October.

We would repeat that this debt has been legally assigned to us and that our assignment is assignment of rights and not duties of the creditor under section 189(1) of the Consumer Credit Act.Our assignment gives us the rights to collect the debt:but we ourselves are not lenders, and we are not obliged to provide you with any copy documentation. You are however within your rights to contact the previous creditor directly.

 

As legal assignee under section 136 of the Law of property Act 1925, we are entitled to pursue you for the sums due under the assignment. In assition we are also entitled to process your data.

 

Even if you were to demonstrare that there was a failure under the Consumer Credit Act by the previous creditor, rendering this account unenforceable, this does not mean that you do not owe the sum due. We note that since our assignment in May 2007 you have made a payment in total of £27.80, and that you have never disputed owenership of the outstanding debt. We therefor have a legal requirement to accurately reflect the account status with the credit reference agencies.

 

Accordingly we would request that you continue to make regukar payments of the outstanding debt. Alternatively we may be able to discuss favorable terms to settle this account at a reduced rate.

 

We trust this clarifies our position.

 

They sent me the above letter with the £1 cheque I sent them dated 18th May 2007. I also looked at the previous letters I sent them and it very clearly stated at the top

"I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company." I also sent a follow up letter dated 1st August with the above stating I do not acknowledge the debt and that all future payments would cease.

The only reason why they had the payments was because for the first couple of months Payplan sent the payment to MBNA who then sent it to Robinson Way. Payplan also then made a payment around August / September time after I asked them to withhold these payments. I have since asked Payplan to cancel these payments completely. What should I do next is there a response letter to this? They are now saying that don't have to supply the cca and I should still pay. I don't belive this as their letter has stated I have never disputed the debt which is quite clearly a lie as it was in bold on both letters I sent them.

I would be very grateful for any help or advice on this.

 

Thanks

[rory32]

What should I do next

Absolutely nothing. It's the standard rubbish from RW which contradicts itself. They are saying that they have been assigned by an eqitable assignment and then go on to quote The LoP which is for absolute assignments (where the rights and duties have passed by assignment). The LoP doesn't apply anyway as this is regulated by the CCA. Either way they are still in default and no amount of wriggling will get them out of that fact.

[shane5408]

Hi Heavenly1,

 

I think you'll find a wealth of information on this response in the Cabot threads

 

regards,

shane

[rory32]

You'll find similar twaddle here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/110218-hsbc-sold-debt-robinson-3.html#post1179587 post 48.

[heavenly1]

Thanks for the quick responses. I will have a look at the threads suggested.

It has helped to put my mind at ease.

[Oh Boy!]

you Go Rory

[heavenly1]

I have tried to read as much as I can but I do not know what to do next.

Should I reply to their letter. They did also send me my £1 cheque which I sent in May so they had it for 5 months before doing anything with it.

 

Now I don't know if I should reply or not.

 

Thanks in advance...

[rory32]

You don't need to reply to the letter. If you really want to do something report them to TS for trying to collect on an account they can not substantiate.

 

If you want to make a complaint to RW as well then you can do that too.

[heavenly1]

Robinson way are back again.

 

After only a couple of the demand letters since the last time I heard from them they have now started to call me. I had a call on Tuesday, the caller from Robinson way wanted to take me through the normal security questions which at that point I said that I did not want to give any personal details over the phone. He then got nasty and said he was calling to sort the account out and that I was delaying them. I told him that he should read the previous letters I sent and respond to them in writing as I didn't want to discuss anything over the phone due to the fact that whatever you discuss over the phone is not what happens.

 

I eventually got rid of him and then yesterday had a nasty woman call me again. She was nasty. I told her the same thing and requested that whatever they wanted to talk about she should put it in writing.

She said that she wouldn't do that and she would just keep calling me every day until I talk to them.

 

I then made sure I contacted BT and I now have Choose to Refuse and their number is now barred. So I have not received any calls today.

I am so glad for the choose to refuse as this stops the calls straight away and they cannot do anything about it....ha..ha..ha..ha.

 

Anyway, what do I do now? They sent back my £1 cheque which I sent to them last May and they said that they do not need to send me the agreement. I just need to get rid of them now. They won't admit to not having a copy of my agreememt. Should I report them now?

 

Thanks for your help in advance

[hannabarbera]

Ignoring the rubbish at the beginning about assignment, it would appear that the general gist of the letter is correct.

 

They don't have a CCA, therefore the debt is unenforcable which doesn't me it doesn't exist, just that they can't make you pay it. They then "request" that you continue to pay it as they cannot demand that you do - trying the moral high ground, which is pretty ripe for this amoral bunch.

[zazen.warrior]

Curiosity got the better of me and I had to find out what the caller hears when their number is blocked, so I temporarily blocked my mobile number and called myself, the message advises 'the number you have dialled is not accepting your calls' I would love to see their faces when they hear this!

[heavenly1]

Thanks both for your reply.

 

I had another call this morning at 08:20am. They called from a different number which I have now barred.

They keep saying that I am not helping by not speaking to them over the phone. I do not confirm any personal details when they ask and I do ask them to write to me, but still they can only send the same general letters.

 

I am going to have to reply to the letter that Rebecca Cooper sent to me. The letter is above. She also sent me back my £1 cheque.

Would this account still be in default when they have sent the cheque back. Will I have to start the 12 + 30 day rule all over again. This whole thing started in May 2007.

 

On the letter Rebecca has signed it as the Brought Debt Correspondence Manager. Does this mean that they have purchased the debt outright and are not collecting on behalf of MBNA?

 

Is there a letter I can send in response to what she has sent me?. I now want to go down the same route I went with 1st Credit. I sent the managing director, Trading Standards and OFT a letter of complaint and within 48hrs got a response back saying they will cancel the account and remove the default.

 

I just want to be sure that the cca still applies to them even though they have quoted me the Law of Property Act 1925. They are putting doubt in my mind which is what they want to do.

 

They are trying to make me crazy...

[ODC]

The CCA overides the Law of Property Act. The agreement you may or may not have signed would have been governed under the CCA,

 

Diskmandave is the expert on RWC and the Law of Property ploy. Have a look at this

 

You don't need to repond to their letter. By simple assignee they mean an equitable assignment of the debt, this is where the right to collect only passes and not the obligations of the creditor. This type of assignment is often used to buy debts. Their letter hopes that you are ignorant of the law. The section of the LoP that they refer to does not apply as it is for an absolute assignment whereby all rights pass to the new owner (if you're in Scotland it never applied anyway as it's an English Act).

Quote:

136. Legal assignments of things in action.- (1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice-

(a) the legal right to such debt or thing in action;

(b) all legal and other remedies for the same; and

© the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:

Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice-

(a) that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or

(b) of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;

he may, if he thinks fit, either call upon the persons making claim thereto to interplead concerning the same, or pay the debt or other thing in action into court under the provisions of the Trustee Act, 1925.

 

(2) This section does not affect the provisions of the Policies of Assurance Act, 1867.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely nothing. It's the standard rubbish from RW which contradicts itself. They are saying that they have been assigned by an eqitable assignment and then go on to quote The LoP which is for absolute assignments (where the rights and duties have passed by assignment). The LoP doesn't apply anyway as this is regulated by the CCA. Either way they are still in default and no amount of wriggling will get them out of that fact.

You made a legal request for your CCA and enclosed the Statutory fee. RWC are in DEFAULT and have in fact commited a criminal offence. Your request still stands no matter what they do with the cheque

[mr.ton]

They are trying to make me crazy...

 

Dont let them succeed - ur worth more than that!

If they are making ur life hell, then make their life hell in return - i did that once with a DCA, gave their number out to just about anyone and everyone you could think of so they were being bombarded with calls from every Tom,dick & harry - childish i know, but sure made me feel better

[heavenly1]

That's Great. Thanks ODC.

 

I am going to send them a letter today to remind them that they have defaulted on my cca request. They have sent me a Formal Demand For Payment letter which I have just received. It is threathing court action so I will make sure that I send a letter in response. So far they keep saying I am not dealing with it, but they just don't want to send me the cca.

 

Thanks Mr Ton,

 

That is sooooo funny:-D

[ODC]

Here is a good response to them from CB

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of hich have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

BLAH

[heavenly1]

Thanks agin ODC

 

I have now sent them the response. This time I have sent it by Special delivery so I know they will receive it tomorrow. Hopefully I will get a response quite quickly. (less then 3 months..)

[heavenly1]

yeah..

 

I have just checked the Royal Mail website and my letter has already been signed for..... I await their response....

[ODC]

Bet its lots of waffle about the Law of Property Act

[heavenly1]

Finally Robinson way have written back to me.

They have now sent me a copy of the loan agreement with my second £1 cheque.

This is what they have said.

 

"Further to your complaint and our letter dated 16th January, we write to advise you that our investigations into your issue have now concluded.

 

Please find enclosed a copy agreement, as requested. We apologise for the time this has taken, however we can assure you that there were several requests made to the original creditor for this information, and we have therefore returned your £1 fee.

 

Whilst we appreciate we did not provide the agreement within the appropriate timescale, it has never meant that the debt did not exist: only that the debt was unenforceable through court. We are therefore legally required to accurately reflect the account status with the Credit reference agencies.

 

We note that you were making regular payments on this debt and that you have never detailed the reason for the dispute. We therefore look forward to you resuming your monthly arrangement with us. Your last payment was made on the 10th October 2007 and as a goodwill gesture we will not be expecting your next payment until 28th February 2008. Alternatively we would be happy to discuss settling this account at a reduced rate, on favourable terms. If you are interested in exploring this option, or if you wish to discuss your payment arrangement further, then please do not hesitate to contact us."

 

What is the best way to arrange a payment with this company. I do not want to call them as they are very agressive over the telephone.

 

I first made my request back in October and I have only received the agreement. Is it just easier to resume the repayment back or could I ask them to reduce the debt amount being as they took 5 months to send the agreement whilst call me and sending me nasty letters knowing full well that they should not have been chasing me for payment until they sent me the agreement.

 

Any comments would help.

 

Thanks in advance

[ODC]

Assuming that the agreement they sent you is properly executed and contaims all the prescribed terms -

 

DO NOT COMPLETE A DIRECT DEBIT. Use a standing order instead as you can control the monthly amount. If you are is a position to pay a lump sum then I would WRITE to them and ask for a full and final settlement figure. If you cannot afford a lump sum then make them an offer of a monthly figure that you are comfortable with and do not budge from this. Tell them NEVER to phone you as the manners of their telephone operators are appalling and that you will only deal with them in writing.

[cheesepie]

Are you sure that it is the CORRECT copy cca they sent you with all the right details on it?

As a lot of people on here have been sent 'pretend' ones, such as terms/conditions or application forms.

I don't know the legalities myself, but if you are not sure it's the correct copy, I'm sure someone on here will be able to help you?

Have got the same trouble with Robinson Way my self at the moment.

[IIIUMINATI]

Post a copy of the agreement on here excluding the personnel bits then we all an give an opinion.

it may only be an application it may have some prescribed terms missing

it may not have an APR it would be in your interests .

[heavenly1]

Thanks very much for your replies.

 

I will try and scan it, I am not too sure if I can.

It does look like the Loan Ageement I signed. It does have the account number, APR, Total to pay, charge for credit, monthly terms. It also has my date and signautre and also MBNA'S.

They also sent me the terms of the agreement. I can't read any of it, it is far too small.

 

Looks like after my last letter I sent them, they then contact MBNA for this as MBNA has faxed it to Robinson way on 31/01/2008 at 16:27. So I have a faxed copy of the agreement I signed.

[ODC]

They may well NOT have the original. This may be a microfiched copy that MBNA have faxed to RWC. In any event it must be readble. I suggest you tell RWC that you cannot read it and ask again for a copy of THE ORIGINAL