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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying. Let's hope other judges are not quite so narrow minded and don't get fixated on one particular issue as FTMDave alluded to.
    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Settling outside of insurance


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Hi, so my son nudged a car in the rear bumper. The car behind had the owner in it. Both parties got out of the cars and looked for damage, both agreed there was none and went on their way. 6 hours later my son receives a message on Facebook from the other driver saying he had noticed a big split in his bumper. We went and looked at it, not convinced the damage was caused by my son but can’t prove otherwise. We asked if they’d be prepared to settle without the need for insurance companies as my son is in first year of driving and has a £600 excess. They agreed. He got a “quote” from a garage he uses for £500. And told me to call the garage to let them explain what the costs were for. I did and got a mouthful from the bloke saying how dare I ask him To prove it. He also admitted he hadn’t seen the car and was “guessing” what damage there might be under the bumper. I got another quote and that was £300. Now they’re threatening to go through the insurance.

My question is...if we do pay the £500, would a letter signed by both parties stating they won’t make any further claim etc be enough for them not to be able to go through the insurance?

Thanks in advance

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I bet they won't sign anything and as soon as you've given them the £500 they'll put a claim through for personal injury.

These characters are spiteful, so you've got very little choice.

Contact your insurance.

The excess is for damage to your car, for third party they sort it out and you don't pay anything (then they double your insurance for the following 5 years)

Make sure you tell your insurance about the assessed £500 damage and if you can give them proof.

At least they won't be able to get a new car out of this.

£500 for a bumper???

What car was it?

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Any uninspected damage can onl oy be a cost estimate, not a quote.

Your son is required to exchange Ins details with other driver pdq and notify his Insurer of the 'accident' whether or not his excess is at risk.

£500 for a replacement plastic bumper + fitting may not be excessive, but can still be a [problem]. Ask other driver if he will allow your named garage/repairer to inspect the vehicle.

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I bet they won't sign anything and as soon as you've given them the £500 they'll put a claim through for personal injury.

These characters are spiteful, so you've got very little choice.

Contact your insurance.

The excess is for damage to your car, for third party they sort it out and you don't pay anything (then they double your insurance for the following 5 years)

Make sure you tell your insurance about the assessed £500 damage and if you can give them proof.

At least they won't be able to get a new car out of this.

£500 for a bumper???

What car was it?

 

07 plate old shape Ford Fiesta! Not a mark on my sons car.

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My wife was in the same situation a few years ago.

The other driver demanded £250 On the spot, not a mark on our car and the other car was a scrap with not a single panel or bumper in ok condition, bumps and deep scratches everywhere.

We refused to hand over the £250 and said to get a quote.

Quote came at £250, strangely.

I said I was going to the garage to pay it there and then, I was 5 minutes away.

They said no, give us the cash.

Eventually we didn't pay and informed our insurance.

They ended up paying £5k for a personal injury without investigating this 1mph accident.

Whiplash at 1mph???

4 years later our insurance premium is still double than it should be.

Moral of the story: they're out there to sc.am you.

Fit a dashcam and record all calls, that6the only protection you have.

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My wife was in the same situation a few years ago.

The other driver demanded £250 On the spot, not a mark on our car and the other car was a scrap with not a single panel or bumper in ok condition, bumps and deep scratches everywhere.

We refused to hand over the £250 and said to get a quote.

Quote came at £250, strangely.

I said I was going to the garage to pay it there and then, I was 5 minutes away.

They said no, give us the cash.

Eventually we didn't pay and informed our insurance.

They ended up paying £5k for a personal injury without investigating this 1mph accident.

Whiplash at 1mph???

4 years later our insurance premium is still double than it should be.

Moral of the story: they're out there to sc.am you.

Fit a dashcam and record all calls, that6the only protection you have.

 

Insurers are all fiddling claims, the whole industry is a multi billion pound [problem] that we're forced to pay.

 

Simple bumps that cause absolutely no damage end up having bills that are in the thousands because the insurers body shop will inflate what work needs doing at an inflated price, then the hire car companies get a slice of the pie with inflated car hire costs, and of course the personal injury claim because the human body is unable to cope with the stresses of a 5mph collision.

 

I have property abroad in Europe, in which the country in question cars are insured and not people, there's no claim culture, no personal injury parasites, everything is good value for money.

 

Makes you wonder what is wrong with rip off Britain nowadays.

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They should start investigating claims instead of paying off without batting an eyelid.

If they follow drivers claiming to suffer from whiplash and they see them playing football they should report them to the police for fraud and not pay out anything.

Unfortunately the only winners here are the insurance companies and that will be it until a strict legislation is passed, especially on how much they can charge.

Every time I have to renew my insurance I feel depressed being ripped off in a perfectly legal way.

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even when you have expert witnesses to support your side of the story the insurer will pay out on a claim that is worth less than say £2k as it isnt woth their time to do the full paperwork, collate evidence, and so forth. many years ago they employed ex-coppers to investigate potentail frauds and teh use their experiance to present a court case but they dont employ anyone themselves so in serious cases they outsource the dodgy claims to otherspecialists who needless to say charge a fair bit so not sconomical for the majority of this type of overegging the pudding by a garage trying to make a dishonest wedge. even if you have all of the evidence to support your side it somethimes goes wrong because the judeg just doesnt like the claimant or defendant. Seen that in a couple of cases involving friends of mine so no wonder people just let the insurers do what they like

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Ok, so if we did go down the road of settling outside the insurance, would this letter (signatures witnessed by independent) be ok? Obviously it’s just a template letter and information needs to be changed etc.

Dear Name of Injured Party:

 

This is a formal letter of agreement for payment for the damage I caused to your car on DATE. I backed into the side of your car in the parking lot at ADDRESS and damaged the driver’s door. In our telephone conversation on DATE, we agreed that the full and final settlement amount for the cost of repair is AMOUNT. I agree to pay this amount with a personal check on or before DATE. Once this payment is made, you agree that I do not owe you any more money.

 

When you sign this letter, you agree to release me from all present and future claims.

 

I have enclosed a copy of this letter for you to sign and return to me. Once we have both signed this letter, the agreement is final.

 

If you have any questions, or would like any changes in this letter, I can be reached at Phone Number or at Email Address.

 

Sincerely,

 

Signature of Responsible Person

Printed Name of Responsible Person

List of Enclosures: Copy of the letter

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Just a small thing, but it's personal cheque (rather than check) and adding king12345's suggested line to cover yourself a little more.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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