Afternoon All,

I hope everyone has having a lovely bank holiday.

When someone has a moment, I would very much appreciate some advice and direction with a credit card complaint.

I've genuinely looked for a similar thread/question, as to not to waste anyone's time, but there doesn't appear to be anything (which is surprising).

at a high-level, over the course of 2 years or so, I raised a couple of Section 75 claims with my credit card company; both for the same issue.

On the first occasion, I submitted my claim via e-mail as per their direction of the CC, I got a confirmation response and they sent a declaration form in the post, which I signed and returned accordingly.

Weeks and months went by and I hear nothing.

I made several phone calls where they promised to investigate but did nothing.

A YEAR goes by and still they fail to act.

I submit another claim for the same issue.

I get another e-mail confirmation but no declaration form to sign.

Again weeks and months go past but I hear nothing.

On this I refused to pay any further monthly minimum charges as they weren't looking into my dispute.

Long story short, my account is in default (however they didn't raise the default correctly).

Can they do that when he account is in dispute?

The FCA handbook page is down but I'm certain it says that whilst there is a dispute a debt should be set aside?

Thank you in advance for any help or advice.

The short answer is that they do whatever they want – and nobody controls them.

Once there is a default on your credit file then you may as well consider that it is impossible to get it removed unless they are faced with a legal action which they realise they can't win or they are advised to do so by the FOS.

I'm sorry to say but I don't understand why you allowed this to go on for two years. This sends signals to the other side that you don't have the bottle or the persistence to see it through. Any action against these people has to be considered, rapid and decisive.

I suppose also that you have been making phone calls without having recorded them. Read our customer services guide and implement the advice there before you start getting on the telephone to anyone.

You had better tell us all about this – including the company, what the argument is about, value – et cetera.

Set it out nicely, chronologically and try to make it as full as possible so we don't have to waterboard you to get the fine detail

the account being in dispute for whatever reason does not prevent the original creditor from defaulting you nor charging interest,,,,

"so we don't have to waterboard you to get the fine detail" :-)

Thank you for the fantastic and timely response, BankFodder. Really appreciate it.

Just a side note, I have managed to get a default and associated 'flags' removed from my time at Uni back in 1999-2003. My mobile contract with Orange had come to a close and they hadn't closed down my contract properly whilst porting my number across. I had a default on my account for 1p!! As I was pretending to be a hardworking student and moving around 'digs', I dind't get any of the correspondence.. anyway I digress.

For this point BankFodder, I can't get my head around how they can put my account in default. To add to this, it was done whilst the FoS, had my complaint.

So the complaint is with MBNA - £3300 (Howdens)

• - Approximately around March 2016, on the direction of MBNA, submitted a section 75 claim via e-mail
   
  
• - Around April 2016, got a declaration letter from MBNA, which I returned.
   
  
• - From around August 2016 - December 2016 I made a number of calls asking for an update.
   
  On one of these calls, I was a bit abrupt with the MBNA staff member, and she refunded my interest to date (around £60 or so for not receiving my statements) and £100 GWG for the delay with my Section 75 claim
   
  
• - May 2017 I raise another Section 75, through the same channels but this time I don't get a declaration form. Just an e-mail confirmation of my submission.
   
  
• - Another couple of calls. Nothing.
   
  
• - October 2017 take my complaint to FoS (This is where it gets frustrating. Not sure why I bothered).
   
  
• - January I get an acknowledgement letter from MBNA about the complaint via FoS. A day or so following this (say 15th January 2018) I get another letter saying that I owed money and if I didn't pay then I would be at risk at being put into default.
   
  This letter wasn't in the form of a notice before action. It didn't have the required formalities such as the amount due and sub headers etc etc. 5 days later I get another letter saying I was in default. I e-mailed customers services asking whether the letter I'd received on the 15th January was my notice of pending default. She returned my e-mail saying Yes.
   
  
• - Debt collection agency was now phoning me every other other day. I asked them not to but to write and stated that the complaint was with FoS.
   
  They ignored me until I sent them a CCA request which they passed on to MBNA. At the same time I sent MBNA subject access request.
   
  MBNA replied requesting a signature even though the contents of the Subject Access Request was to be sent to the exact same address as where my bank statements go.
  

-MBNA argue that as they have no record of my declaration being sent back for my initial section75 claim so they did nothing.

They also admit they don't have anything from this request as the colleague has now left (which doesn't make sense as surely this would be managed by a document management system) i.e they have lost all my contracts, receipts and attachments.

- MBNA make no mention of my second Section75 claim not being duly administered but state they can't see a debtor-creditor-supplier relationship.

They don't make any mention of a declaration being needed either (why was it needed for my first but not second).

When I state that it would be clear if they hadn't lost the initial paperwork, they respond saying that they ask customers not to send original paperwork.

I'm actually rather shocked that the adjudicator sides with them with all my evidence. What is also frustrating, is they ignored my points around the default notice, subject access request.

Think about all the pensioners and individuals who are less likely or not confident in raising an issue. The FoS ends up losing them money.

Apologies for the length of my post, BankFodder.

As before, appreciate your time on this.

Hi dx100uk,

Thank you for getting involved.

Can I ask where you are getting that info from?

As I said before to BankFodder, but looking at the FCA handbook (which seems to be down) the sub section in regards to disputes states that any debt in dispute should be set aside?

Hope all else is well with you.

This involves a contract with Howden's – the kitchen furniture suppliers et cetera. Is that correct?

Can you tell us about that problem and why you haven't proceeded against them?

Also, do I understand that you have had a response to your SAR and they say they don't have anything?

Also I don't see that you have actually explained what the FOS have said or why

"This involves a contract with Howden's – the kitchen furniture suppliers et cetera. Is that correct"

Yes, that's correct. They were not interested and directed to the furniture ombudsman. My understanding is, regardless of this, I can claim a section75 without going through any form of Ombudsman or third party complaints but directly to MBNA.

"Also, do I understand that you have had a response to your SARicon and they say they don't have anything?"

As I said, they denied my subject access request stating that I didn't sign my request, which I believe I do not have to. My consequent letters have stated this but they have gone unanswered. To add again, the contents of the Subject Access Request would have been returned to the same address as my credit card billing address.

"Also I don't see that you have actually explained what the fosicon have said or why"

As I said, the FoS response has been selective at best.

So for example, MBNA have said that they didn't receive the declaration from my first submission.

However the FoS, even though I make mention of it, make no comment on the fact the second re-application for the claim didn't ask for a declaration.

The FoS reiterate the proof need for a supplier-debtor-creditor relationship but they ignore the fact that I have pointed out MBNA have lost my initial documentation and have admitted to it. My point about the default notice.

Again , they ignored my points. MBNA skirted the issue and conveniently now state the default notice was sent on another day even though I have e-mail confirmation from customers services dept on the date I state.

The adjudicator takes their word as gospel in regards to this 'other' default notice but they can't do they same when I state I sent back my declaration form.

Thanks again.

You haven't told us about the problem with Howden's. We seem to be keeping this a secret. Is there any special reason?

Hi BankFodder,

No. It's no secret that Howdens supply and fit kitchens. That is the issue here. It is not what I was promised in terms of colour nor fitting.

Thanks.

And how did Howdens respond to your complaint/dispute ?

So let's start off.

You decided to buy some products from Howden's.

You paid about £3000 on a credit card

you specified certain requirements and Howden's failed to supply the products that you needed.

Did you keep the products?

Did you return the products?

How did you make your complaint?

What is the response? (I know they suggested some furniture ombudsman, but what was the response other than that? Did they say that they had fulfilled the contract or the you had wrongly specified?)

As you can see, I'm struggling to get the full picture and we've been going for about three hours now.

Also, Howden's normally supply directly to the trade – or at least they prefer to say so, anyway.

Did you buy these items for your own use or for a client?

And to save me trouble trying to drag it out if you later on, what did you specify, was it specified in writing?

And none of this would ever had happened if you 'd done the correct thing and raised a claim under the consumer rights act

I think the OP may not have been certain of his rights and have been diverted to a so-called furniture ombudsman by Howden's.

What he may not understand is that simply having gone to that so-called ombudsman, doesn't mean that his rights under the Consumer Rights Act are extinguished.

However, we not letting the story despite best efforts. We need to know whether this really is a question of a properly specified order not having been complied with so that it is a fully ascertainable breach, or it is simply a matter of some miscommunication.

If it is the former, then in addition to proceeding with a section 75 complaint, the OP should also be proceeding to County Court against Howden's.

However, we are getting very little information and I don't really understand why. We don't know what the so-called furniture ombudsman said? We don't know how the purchase was specified. We don't know what Howden's initial response was.

When we know all of these things then we can get some solid advice for a very rapid action.

BankFodder,

Sincere apologies on this. I do appreciate your time....

"You decided to buy some products from Howden's."

Yes and fitting.

"You paid about £3000 on a credit card "

Yes.

"you specified certain requirements and Howden's failed to supply the products that you needed."

Yes and fitting.

"Did you keep the products?"

Yes I did. Due to the poor design, there was a surplus of items that I returned.

"Did you return the products?"

No. I still have the kitchen.

How did you make your complaint?

What is the response? (I know they suggested some furniture Ombudsmanicon, but what was the response other than that? Did they say that they had fulfilled the contract or the you had wrongly specified

I wrote t the store (recorded) - twice. Who ignored/lost my letters. It was then taken up with head office Who referred me to the furniture ombudsman.

Of course at a point down the line the issue is fundamentally Howdens but that has been overshadowed by MBNA and its reluctance to acknowledge the Section75 going forward.

P.S I didn't bother with the furniture ombudsman as I felt the Section75 route would hold more clout and rigor. So as per my post were I outline the timeframes, I reported this to MBNA who failed to act to my claims and phone calls.

The MBNA complaint has not overshadowed Howden's and all of your consumer remedies are still available to you. I don't know where you got this idea from.

Once again, it will be so helpful if you would simply tell us the whole story. You say that you appreciate our time, but I expect that you would appreciate it more if you are paying 250 or £300 an hour.

So you ordered some products from Howden's – but you say "and fitting". This means that you bought them directly or someone installed them?

You have kept some of the products and they have been in use for two years that there was a surplus.

You have returned the surplus items and Howden's accepted them and reimbursed you.

You have kept some of the items and they are installed and you are using them as a kitchen – although you are not very happy because they weren't what was originally specified. Is this correct?

The original order was worth £3000 but you have returned the surplus so presumably you are out of pocket considerably less than £3000 – yes?

It would be so easy if you would just simply start off saying:

I decided to install a kitchen blah blah

I specified XYZ blah blah

I specified this in writing blah blah

I decided to order from Howden at such and such cost blah blah

when the order arrived, it was not what I had specified because blah blah

for XXX particular reasons, I installed some of it and complain to Howden's and return the rest and they accepted it blah blah

they reimbursed me a certain amount of money which was £XXX

however I'm not satisfied and I am trying to get back additional money of £ZZZ

I'm happy to hang onto the existing kitchen/I want to get rid of the existing kitchen and get it replaced so that I want a complete refund blah blah

Geddit?

BankFodder,

I do honestly appreciate your time. I really do. The title of this thread is, "Interest Charges during Section 75 claim". That is, in my view, the forefront of the whole issue at this precise moment in time. Howdens or indeed, "consumer remedies" (consumer rights), are not going to force MBNA to acknowledge or act upon the Section 75 request I have made. At a high-level. How can a credit card provider ignore my section 75 requests but still charge me interest and then when that complaint is escalated to the FoS, and in due process, apparently default with the correct correspondence?

So as not to elevate any further confusion or waste any further time..

Its not secret that Howdens, supply and fit kitchen for the general public. That is what I requested as for our home as part of the general public.

This was communicated via phone and most importantly via e-mail. The cupboards weren't as expected (colour as per plans) and the fitting just wasn't right hence the surplus of material. Again it didn't match the plans. At the time I specified that I wanted the issues resolved or my money back. I sent two letter of complaint which they ignored/lost before I pushed it up to head office who disagreed with my points and directed me to the furniture ombudsman.

You can probably park that to one side as instead of going to the furniture ombudsman, I complained directly to MBNA, providing all the documentation etc. I did this twice but they never did anything with it, even when I called.

Absolutely Howdens is a battle but that's going to be for another day, as allegedly, I now have a default even though my section75 submissions were ignored, the correct correspondence to instruct that decision wasn't sent and they didn't deliver on the SAR.

I hope that's clear. Sorry for not being clearer before around the kitchen.

I'm afraid that I think that the way to start unravelling this is to attack Howden's on their breach of contract.

Once you can establish that then the rest should tend to fall into place. One of the questions of course will be whether you were justified in stopping payments when it could be thought that in the end you had accepted substantially the whole order or a greater part of it and so you should at least be paying for this.

I expect that Howden's are fairly easy prey. MBNA won't like doing a section 75 and I don't think you help yourself by allowing it to go on for so long.

It's too late now of course that you would have been best off threatening Howden's and issuing a claim if necessary within the first four weeks. I can imagine Howden's would have broadly put their hands up in the matter would have been done and dusted.

This is what I would suggest. I think you should begin by sending an SAR under the new GDPR regime to Howden's and also to MBNA. You might also want to send one to the FOS to see what they have as well. It is all free of charge now and it only takes 30 days.

I'm still not too clear as the outcomes you are seeking. I understand that you want the removal of the default. But I guess that you must be looking for other compensation. Can you give us a clue please

"I'm afraid that I think that the way to start unravelling this is to attack Howden's on their breach of contract"

"MBNA won't like doing a section 75"

"Once you can establish that then the rest should tend to fall into place. One of the questions of course will be whether you were justified in stopping payments when it could be thought that in the end you had accepted substantially the whole order or a greater part of it and so you should at least be paying for this."

Before this became about MBNA, my only request from Howdens to put things right or return my money.

With MBNA, as I have expressed to them, I want my default and 'flags' removed and the Section75 looked at. Then we can take it from there. I don't think I'm being unreasonable to be asked to be put back in the same position prior to my first section75 requests.

I find the FoS response incredible. Its actually frightening. I understand today wires may have become crossed but my explanation to them and the submission of evidence was literally spoon fed. Diagrams, screen shots, confirmation of submissions, copies of e-mails - It was flawless. Points about my SAR and default notice was totally ignored and not even mentioned. Absolutely frightening. To think people rely heavily on these people.

Simply because all other financial institutions are big bullies. They are subject to section 75 but they don't like it and they were forced into it and they are much more powerful than Howden's.

You are quite wrong that Howden's is not at the forefront. You don't seem to understand that when you attack MBNA under section 75, you are in effect attacking them vicariously under the Consumer Rights Act. They are liable to you under the consumer rights act in exactly the same way as Howden's are. Except Howden's are by far the weaker party and less able and less willing to stand up to you.

If you have a good case under the Consumer Rights Act then it is just as good against Howden's as it is against MBNA. The question is, which is the weaker party. It's Howden's. Don't imagine that simply section 75 gives you some privileged right to hold MBNA to account. It doesn't. Section 75 is normally used where the supplier has gone into liquidation or is out of reach in a different jurisdiction. You haven't really tried against Howden's. I think that you've dealt with this very badly right from the beginning which is why you are in the mess in which you find yourself.

If you want to deal with this then you should attack Howden's. We are happy to help you – if you will be a bit more helpful to us.

And by the way, here is another nag: if you're going to quote things I have said then please will you use the quote icon – you will see that I've edited your previous post and maybe you will understand that it is far easier to follow.

If you agree with the approach of attacking Howden's then I suggest that you start a new thread in the appropriate retail forum and lay it out a bit more carefully and a bit more helpfully please.

This thread has gone on too long and is frankly turning into a mess.

Thank you very much for today, BankFodder.

You of course make some very valid and interesting points on this which of course I take on board. My final question is; Consumer rights act - would you not consider me to be outside the time limit to make a complaint?

Again, thank you very much for today.

Best.

Your rights under the Consumer Rights Act run six years from the date of breach

Can't quite remember. Did you say that you had installed this? What was the deal on the installation?

So Howdens recommended an installer which we used. The plans were incorrect which led to issues and the finish. The problem we had was with what we was promised in terms of design, colour and quality. There was no issue with the installation.

Again, can't say it enough but thank you today and putting up with my questions.

Who prepared the plans?

Who approved them?