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    • An update to this case as I’ve not been on in a while.    I am still awaiting a charging decision in the case. The two police officers involved have said their personal belief is a section 47 ABH charge is the most likely outcome but this isn’t a sure thing of course.    The EA certificate from the issuing court has now lapsed. The court have refused to recertify him until they’ve had a hearing in to the case, and the district judge has issued orders to surrender all evidence, footage, photos etc.    I have done so promptly.    the EA, not so much . Equita have claimed they cannot provide his bodycam footage as the camera he was wearing is the EA personal one not one of theirs.   the EA has claimed he has asked Equita and the police for the footage as he claims he doesn’t have it.    the police have confirmed they didn’t seize his camera and they don’t have it.    so they are basically pointing the finger at each other all the while failing to comply with the district judges order to provide all evidence they intend to rely on at the rescheduled hearing.    The district judge has stated the hearing for his certification will NOT be the hearing for my complaint as there is no charge as of yet, and just as to whether he should be recertified or not.    I’m not 100% on why that can’t be done at the time, but I’m not about to question a judge…..      
    • Thanks FTMDave, I like the cut of your jib - I'll go with that and obtain proof of postage. Encouraging that NPE have never followed through and seem to blowing hot air, let's see where they go after this   Regards
    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
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Been asked to leave but no advice on terms of departure


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Hi

 

Thanks in advance. I am looking for some help on my current situation at work. I have worked there for more than two years and have not been subject to disciplinary procedures.

 

Last week I handed in my notice. The primary reason I did this was due to leave request being declined. In my letter i stated i would work my notice but would not be working the specific dates i requested.

 

Later on my line manager informed me that i would be leaving the same day and to prepare a handover which i did. This was seven days ago. Since then i have not received any information regarding the terms of my departure.

 

Two days ago i contacted my line manager's manager to discuss the situation. He told me he was busy but would contact me today. He didn't contact me so again i followed up with him. He advised that he was very busy as i had caused a serious issue. He said he would email this week. I responded to ask him to confirm whether i was on garden leave to which he replied he couldnt. I then asked whether i had been sacked on the spot to which he replied that he would email me this week.

 

I would just like some opinion on whether i should be on garden leave? If they decline to place me on garden leave and say i have been sacked on the spot for gross misconduct, how should i proceed?

 

Thanks a lot

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How long is your notice period?

 

Does your contract of employment expressly allow the employer to put you on gardening leave during your notice period?

 

It sounds as if they were considering sending you on garden leave but haven't done so. Nor is there any reason to think they have dismissed you. You've handed in your notice and you are working out your notice unless you agree something different before your notice period expires. Why do you think you should be on gardening leave, or be sacked on the spot? Gardening leave isn't something employees are entitled to and it isn't intended to be for your benefit to allow you to go on holiday or whatever. Did you resign thinking you would be put on GL and that would allow you to take the leave that had been refused? It doesn't work that way. While on GL you are still not allowed to go (eg) on holiday without permission.

 

 

Where this might all change for you is if during your notice period you take leave without permission. Which sounds like what you are intending to do. That would very likely give them grounds to dismiss you 'on the spot' for gross misconduct, stop paying you, and state in any future reference that you had been dismissed.

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You’ve certainly given them grounds to dismiss you for gross misconduct, and they could have had the shortest of investigations to conclude that.

However, if they have concluded that, you should still have had a disciplinary meeting and have been advised of the outcome.

I’d hold fire until your notice period has elapsed unless they contact you.

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You’ve certainly given them grounds to dismiss you for gross misconduct, and they could have had the shortest of investigations to conclude that.

However, if they have concluded that, you should still have had a disciplinary meeting and have been advised of the outcome.

 

What misconduct has OP committed? None disclosed. Taking leave without permission is misconduct. Merely saying you are going to isn't, not until you actually do it.

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How long is your notice period?

 

Does your contract of employment expressly allow the employer to put you on gardening leave during your notice period?

 

It sounds as if they were considering sending you on garden leave but haven't done so. Nor is there any reason to think they have dismissed you. You've handed in your notice and you are working out your notice unless you agree something different before your notice period expires. Why do you think you should be on gardening leave, or be sacked on the spot? Gardening leave isn't something employees are entitled to and it isn't intended to be for your benefit to allow you to go on holiday or whatever. Did you resign thinking you would be put on GL and that would allow you to take the leave that had been refused? It doesn't work that way. While on GL you are still not allowed to go (eg) on holiday without permission.

 

 

Where this might all change for you is if during your notice period you take leave without permission. Which sounds like what you are intending to do. That would very likely give them grounds to dismiss you 'on the spot' for gross misconduct, stop paying you, and state in any future reference that you had been dismissed.

 

Hi Thanks for the reply

 

I didn't ask for garden leave or expect gardening leave. Just on the day I handed my notice in they told me it was my last day. I wrote in my letter that I would work my notice except certain days that I would be absent... apologies if this wasn't clear

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You’ve certainly given them grounds to dismiss you for gross misconduct, and they could have had the shortest of investigations to conclude that.

However, if they have concluded that, you should still have had a disciplinary meeting and have been advised of the outcome.

I’d hold fire until your notice period has elapsed unless they contact you.

 

Hi Thanks for reply and advice

 

I feel kind of in limbo. I can't start a new job if I am on garden leave but can if I have been sacked on the spot. I also have no idea how much I am going to be paid come end of May.

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What misconduct has OP committed? None disclosed. Taking leave without permission is misconduct. Merely saying you are going to isn't, not until you actually do it.

 

True.

So it depends on if the OP has been absent on any of those days, or for if each day they have said “I’m at home, as agreed, but available if you want me in ....”

The company may also have concluded there was a breakdown in mutual respect and trust....

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What misconduct has OP committed? None disclosed. Taking leave without permission is misconduct. Merely saying you are going to isn't, not until you actually do it.

 

Thanks for your comment. They asked me to leave on the day I handed my notice in. I have had no contact with them except brief exchanges described above

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True.

So it depends on if the OP has been absent on any of those days, or for if each day they have said “I’m at home, as agreed, but available if you want me in ....”

The company may also have concluded there was a breakdown in mutual respect and trust....

 

Hi , on the day I gave them the letter, they said it was my last day. I have had limited contact since then and they haven't asked any questions regarding my whereabouts

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

How much notice did you give them please and what does your contract say about a notice period.

 

Does the firm have an HR department?

 

HB

 

Hi 4 weeks in error should have been one month

 

We do not have HR dept as is a small company. My manager's manager is co owner.

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Hi , on the day I gave them the letter, they said it was my last day. I have had limited contact since then and they haven't asked any questions regarding my whereabouts

 

 

I misread your post to mean you had been told you would be leaving the workplace the day you handed in your notice but as they hadn't followed up you were still at work. I'd just write to them to confirm that as instructed by Mr X on xx/yy/2018 you are at home and will not be attending the workplace during your notice period. Just that, nothing more, so that you have got written evidence of what happened. If they don't agree the onus is on them to contact you and say so. My point about taking leave remains the same though, whether at work or at home you are not entitled to go on holiday without permission and doing so could result in disciplinary action and dismissal.

 

Hi , on the day I gave them the letter, they said it was my last day.

 

Unless they explicitly stated that your contract was terminated from that day or that they were dismissing you a Tribunal would be very unlikely to interpret those words as meaning you had been sacked on the spot. The more likely interpretation is "last day" meant your last day attending the workplace.

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I misread your post to mean you had been told you would be leaving the workplace the day you handed in your notice but as they hadn't followed up you were still at work. I'd just write to them to confirm that as instructed by Mr X on xx/yy/2018 you are at home and will not be attending the workplace during your notice period. Just that, nothing more, so that you have got written evidence of what happened. If they don't agree the onus is on them to contact you and say so. My point about taking leave remains the same though, whether at work or at home you are not entitled to go on holiday without permission and doing so could result in disciplinary action and dismissal.

 

Thank you for reply and clarification. I have looked at my contract and it does not give unauthorised absence as gross misconduct. I was of the opinion for a first offence they wouldnt be able to summarily dismiss me with no pay. I am now taking it that they have to pay me until they at least tell me they have summarily dismissed me? Can you tell me your thoughts on that point please?

 

Also the contract states: "on giving or receiving notice the employer shall be entitled (but not obliged) to bring yoir employment to an end forthwith by laying You in lieu of notice an amount equal salary for the unexpired period of such notice" is it fair to assume this is what is happening? Thanks in advance

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So there's no specific person who's responsible for HR?

 

HB

 

Not as far as i am aware to be honest. However i have not had any issue that would involve HR during the 2 and half years i have worked there. The company is small and has an informal feel. I couldnt say with certainty that there is no person responsible for HR matters.

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Thank you for reply and clarification. I have looked at my contract and it does not give unauthorised absence as gross misconduct. I was of the opinion for a first offence they wouldnt be able to summarily dismiss me with no pay. I am now taking it that they have to pay me until they at least tell me they have summarily dismissed me? Can you tell me your thoughts on that point please?

 

Also the contract states: "on giving or receiving notice the employer shall be entitled (but not obliged) to bring yoir employment to an end forthwith by laying You in lieu of notice an amount equal salary for the unexpired period of such notice" is it fair to assume this is what is happening? Thanks in advance

 

In general unauthorised absence isn't usually gross misconduct justifying summary dismissal but it can be if, as in your case, you asked for permission to take leave and it was refused but you go anyway. That was why I made the comment about gross misconduct. Whether it actually would be in your case if you went would depend on the precise facts and I wouldn't want to predict what a Tribunal would decide. But as you haven't taken leave (yet!) they have no grounds to dismiss you for misconduct so they should still be paying you. Pay in lieu of notice [PILON] is possible under your contract but again unless they have specifically stated they are invoking that condition you can't assume that is the situation. If you want that to happen (eg so that you can go on holiday without any possibility of consequences) then you need to put it in writing to them, get them to confirm they have done that. You can be sure that unless the top boss has decided to go PILON payroll dept will not be putting the money in your next pay slip!

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In general unauthorised absence isn't usually gross misconduct justifying summary dismissal but it can be if, as in your case, you asked for permission to take leave and it was refused but you go anyway. That was why I made the comment about gross misconduct. Whether it actually would be in your case if you went would depend on the precise facts and I wouldn't want to predict what a Tribunal would decide. But as you haven't taken leave (yet!) they have no grounds to dismiss you for misconduct so they should still be paying you. Pay in lieu of notice [PILON] is possible under your contract but again unless they have specifically stated they are invoking that condition you can't assume that is the situation. If you want that to happen (eg so that you can go on holiday without any possibility of consequences) then you need to put it in writing to them, get them to confirm they have done that. You can be sure that unless the top boss has decided to go PILON payroll dept will not be putting the money in your next pay slip!

 

Thanks a lot. I appreciate your replies they have helped me understand my situation better. I was told that 'today is your last day' but nothing in writing. Does this mean i am technically suspended as they haven't told me i have been fired or been placed on garden leave?

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Thanks a lot. I appreciate your replies they have helped me understand my situation better. I was told that 'today is your last day' but nothing in writing. Does this mean i am technically suspended as they haven't told me i have been fired or been placed on garden leave?

 

I wouldn't like to guess what a Tribunal judge would conclude, but again suspension is a formal act in employment law and Tribunals wouldn't normally presume it unless either the employer expressly stated it or the facts left no other credible conclusion. My guess - and I am not an employment lawyer - is that you are on gardening leave, even though they didn't use the words - gardening leave isn't a formal status in employment law, it's just an informal description. Really though you'll only find out what your employer thinks your status is by pressing them to confirm it to you in writing!

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I wouldn't like to guess what a Tribunal judge would conclude, but again suspension is a formal act in employment law and Tribunals wouldn't normally presume it unless either the employer expressly stated it or the facts left no other credible conclusion. My guess - and I am not an employment lawyer - is that you are on gardening leave, even though they didn't use the words - gardening leave isn't a formal status in employment law, it's just an informal description. Really though you'll only find out what your employer thinks your status is by pressing them to confirm it to you in writing!

 

Thanks i have done that today and will follow up in a few days

 

I have another question apologies. If later they tell me i have been sacked, do they need to pay me in full for the time between them asking me not to come back to the office and them informing me of their decision? Thanks again

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What evidence do you have that they told you not to return to work, as opposed to (what they could claim) that you left work one day and never came back?

 

And whilst I won't be commenting on any "rights" or "wrongs" not in evidence, I will point out for future reference that nobody is entitled to the holidays that they want, and resigning every time somebody says no would lead to many short periods of employment. An employer always has the right to refuse leave requests, or you dictate exactly when an employee takes all of their leave.

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Hi all

 

Thanks for replies so far. I now have an update

 

They have sent me a message today, 15th May, to say they are only paying me for the eight days I worked this month. They have advised my notice period pay is being forfeited to cover the financial loss i have caused. I was an employee.

 

Does an employer have the right to do this?

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Do you think you've caused them financial loss?

 

HB

 

I was working on a product that was to be exhibited and they have said they are unable to exhibit the product now.

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It's hard to see how that would stand up in law unless there's more to this than you've posted. You are entitled to resign! You aren't liable for any "losses" or inconvenience that causes them. And anyway you would be there now working on it if they hadn't decided to send you home.

 

 

My inclination would be to take them to Employment Tribunal for unlawful deduction from wages, but do take professional advice before doing that.

 

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4125

 

http://www.landaulaw.co.uk/unlawful-deduction-from-wages/

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