Court Date - NEXT WEEK

[KennyVinegar]

Hi

 

My court hearing is scheduled for next week, the 17th, but i'm a little confused as to what I do in the meantime.

 

I was due to submit my bundle sometime in June but I missed the date because the court kept sending letters to the wrong address. I hand delivered my bundle to the court explaining the situation but I have heard nothing since. I phoned them today to check that the hearing is still going ahead next week, which I was told it was.

 

Should I have received a defence bundle from Barclays? If not, should I be writing to the court with a letter of non-compliance? Or do I go ahead and go to court next week?

 

Any help is greatly appreciated (these forums are a godsend)

[juicyd]

Kenny I wouldn't worry about your bundle being late esp as you have a good reason. It is probably a good sign for you that Barclays have failed to send a bundle - you could write to the court pointing it out and saying that you have heard nothing at all. Then if you turn up and they are there asking for a stay, you can oppose it based on the reasons in the sticky - but also highlighting that they had ample time to give you notice that they would be asking for a stay but were not even courteous enough to let you know beforehand and possibly save you attending. Some judges are clearly prepared to refuse stays, which is brilliant (see Minster's post today). Good luck!

[KennyVinegar]

Thanks juicyd

 

I've sent a letter saying that they didn't comply, i hope its not too late, i really don't want to go to court!

[KennyVinegar]

Ok, I've read lots of threads in the past couple of days and I think I know what I need in the event of having to attend court on Friday.

 

a) My court bundle (having revised and understood it, in case it gets that far) with a copy for the judge and one for the Barclays rep

b) The application for the removal of a stay (as I'm 99% sure this will be what Barclays go for)

c) The non-compliance letter I sent last week

 

Have a missed anything?

 

I'm going to phone the court again tomorrow to see if there has been any update since last week, and then again on Thursday afternoon.

 

I'm scared about going to court but I don't think there's anyway out of it now

[juicyd]

I strongly suspect that barclays will send someone on the day to ask for stay but if they don't - yay! That's the best case scenario cos then you can go in and tell the judge you've been sent no evidence, and now they have not appeared to defend so please can he enter judgment on the claim. If they turn up yes they will ask for a stay so try and be as familiar as you can with the arguments in the statement opposing stay, because you may have to make those to the judge. Lay it on thick that they are not entitled to assume 100% that they will get a stay so must have surely prepared for a final hearing? If so, it would be cost effective to go ahead when everyone is ready and will be better for you because you need money and stay will cause prejudice to you but not to them. You don't say which court you are in but you may be pleasantly surprised at the process, any decent judge should go out of his way to help you and not let you feel intimidated by it all. My bank asked for a stay last thursday (my hearing's in two days). i have said no way (of course) and so will be in the same boat as you, opposing it in person. It's not ideal but we have got right on our side! and good arguments. See skintcumbrian's thread about a stay being refused in her case unless bank agreed not to charge her in the meantime (carlisle county court). they asked for an adjournment to consider it - pity we won't know the outcome before our dates! good luck - let me know how you get on won't you

[Lady E]

I am due in court next week (23rd) with Shabbey. I have not received anything from them apart from a patronising letter informing me that they are applying for a stay. I too, am not happy about going to court although I truly believe that if I dont then I will be letting the side down. The patronising letter was the final straw, surely the fact I have managed to prepare a case ,submit it on time, and understand the argument means I do not need to treated like a child !

 

Good luck both of you

[juicyd]

It's ridiculous - anyone would think by their lack of preparation that they knew the test case was coming ages ago! Good luck Lady E, i will let you know how i get on in case it is of any assistance to you, I am in Clerkenwell who apparently are taking it case by case. My bank have also done F all so am going to start off by pointing out that as they don't appear to be in a position to defend the claim, why should they get the benefit of the stay. I sent them a long letter on Friday with all my arguments for opposing the stay and highlighting their lack of evidence. I too have had a patronising response just churning out some standard argument and throwing in the old 'with respect' - meaning they have none for me. Also saying they are not going to respond to my letter point by point er well you will have to respond in front of the judge so why not get your act together now.

[KennyVinegar]

Thanks juicyd, i'll make sure I know the stay arguement thoroughly. Good luck with your hearings guys!

[signa]

I too objected to the stay. Judge was very fair. He told Barclays they have to produce the big wig from Litigation Team who made me verbal offer then withdrew it after OFT news. He has to attend court. Wonder if he'll travel 200 miles? Judge refused Barclays expenses or telephone link. Insisted he attends in person.

[juicyd]

Wow Signa!!! That's BRILLIANT!!! what a judge!!

 

WHY as I keep asking, can the judges not all be so sensible and FAIR. I hope your offer gets restated.

 

Kenny if it helps at all, my bank's application for a stay was refused yesterday in Clerkenwell CC. I did a thread in general forum about it but essentially he said there is no automatic right to a stay particularly in cases which already had their final hearing listed before the test case was announced. GOOD LUCK TOMORROW!!!!

[juicyd]

ps Signa please will you keep us posted on what they do? Ideally by starting your own thread and saying which court you are in if that's possible.

 

Thanks.

 

I have won my case but have more to recover from the same bank so will be staying here to root for everyone else until test case is finished

[KennyVinegar]

Excellent juicy!! Thats great news. I'm starting to get really nervous about tomorrow. I'm just really scared I won't understand anything that is being said and make a fool of myself

I'm going to phone the court about 4 this afternoon to see if its still going ahead. Still haven't had any letters off Barclays saying about staying my case or about the OFT annoucement. I'm hoping this is a good thing!!

[juicyd]

Kenny, try not to worry - the only people likely to look stupid in court are the lawyers, since no one expects you to do anything more than say what you are there to say.

 

Just try to breathe deeply and when you are given your chance to speak, make sure you say everything you wanted to (or you will kick yourself later)

 

Whatever judge you get will be used to day in, day out, having people representing themselves. They are used to explaining the process and helping you to present your case so nobody will try and broadside you with anything.

 

It is great news that Barclays have not asked for a stay - it is now too late for them to do so!! They need to apply 'On Notice' meaning they should notify you two clear days before the hearing. Don't bother phoning the court - you have no need to - the Court would have told you by now if they were going to stay it of their own accord.

 

Sounds like you are well prepared for a final hearing and as no one has asked for a stay, you will be going ahead. If Barclays don't send anyone, the judge will realise that they have not filed any evidence, not attended the hearing and you could ask him to strike out their defence! This is what happened in my case yesterday.

 

He doesn't have to do this automatically but if he decides Barclays defence was an abuse of process (in that they never intended to come to court and defend it), he can strike it out. He can also take into consideration the fact that Barclays have never defended any claims in your court. (Mullen v LB Hackney, 1997 2 ALL ER 906)

 

It all sounds very positive - you have perhaps slipped through barclays net? But all the better for your chances of getting your money!

 

Where are you in court? I wish you lots of luck in front of the judge - but am sure you won't need it!

[KennyVinegar]

Thanks juicy, your encouragement and advice mean a lot.

 

I'm in court in Manchester at 10.30 tomorrow. What I'm worried about is that I won't have prepared enough and not know my arguments fully, or forget to say something really important. I get very, very nervous speaking in front of people and my mind goes blank a lot of the time, even if I write things down I just rush through things to get my bit out of the way.

 

I'm hoping I've slipped through the net too - fingers crossed nobody turns up!!

[juicyd]

Kenny - I hear ya on the nerves front, let me tell you!

 

If it makes you feel better, I am actually a solicitor and have been before lots of county court judges. I usually have a few butterflies but - the personal nature of my case against my bank, the frustration of being messed about by them, the waiting, the hours of preparation, the investment we are all making in trying to get a result that is right and fair....I was a BAG of nerves yesterday!!!

 

I was trying to do my deep breathing outside as in reality, the waiting around is the worst bit - bring water and try and stretch your legs every now and then if you are kept waiting, it keeps the blood flowing to your lungs! Once you start talking and get into it, you forget to be nervous.

 

The judge will hopefully put you at your ease. Even if you don't get all your points out word for word as you have written them down - if you cover all the 'headings' you'll be fine - the detail is just an added bonus.

 

However as I say, if no one turns up, your job should be that much easier! You never know, you might even enjoy it!

 

ps if barclays do send someone who turns up trying to get you to agree to a stay outside court - that is the only way they are likely to get it without having made a proper application so don't let them talk you into anything. Just give them the bundle and say you are ready for a hearing and that's that. It's only going to be some idiot lawyer working for the banks so why make their job easier!

 

can't wait to hear how you get on!

[KennyVinegar]

There is no way I am agreeing to a stay outside of court!! They can try all they like!

 

I'll hopefully have my brother and/or boyfriend (I called myself kennyvinegar when I joined up but I am actually female!) with me so they'll help me get through it.

 

I'm off to the v festival afterwards but I'll make sure I log on before I go and let you know how I got on.

[marcelle]

Oh bless.... I've also got mines tomorrow at 10am and feel kinda the same way as you.... I'm just trying to cram all the info. i need to say for the stay to be lifted. I'm hoping nobody turns up for both of us!!! Good luck and let us know how it went!!!

[juicyd]

Kenny, Marcelle, in the Barclays forum, SarahApples has posted about her hearing today - Barclays refused stay because they hadn't applied to the Court and paid their £65 - no one then instructed to defend claim - judgment for SarahApples!!!! So take hope!

 

Sorry i don't know how to link to her thread but it's in Barclays successes and describes very well the process and what to expect

 

Really hope Kenny gets to go to V with a victory under her belt!!

[marcelle]

OMG Juicyd.... I was literally just reading your thread of yesterday when both yourself and Sarah won when msn alerted me I received mail from Consumer Forums..... Congrats and thanks for your story.... it really helps!!!

[KennyVinegar]

Thats fab news about Sarah - I soooooooo hope that happens for me & you Marcelle!! Good luck for tomorrow!

[livelylad]

Thread moved to Barclays forum.

[KennyVinegar]

:mad::mad:

 

Yes, thats right, I am NOT happy.

 

So I go to court, and I'm waiting to hear my name, just before half 10 they call my case, so I get up and the girl says 'its ok, we were just seeing if Barclays had turned up'. Nobody had come up to me to try and get me to stay, so I was secretly hoping they hadn't turned up. Anyway, I was called into the judge's office (a different judge to the one it was meant to be), and there's is only me in the room. 'Hurray!!' I thought! I should have held my horses.....

The judge then goes on to say about how courts in the Manchester area had all received, in the past couple of days, a document from a senior judge, giving guidance on how to deal with these cases, given the test case announcement. So he read it all out to me saying the senior judge had recommended to stay all cases until after the outcome of the test case. So i then gave him the document stating why i opposed the stay, which he read through and credited me on the content (thanks guys ), in actual fact he seemed to read through it 2 or 3 times, as if he was trying to make his mind up on what to do. Then he continued to give his justification for granting a stay (incidently, Barclays hadn't applied for one before the hearing), he felt he couldn't go against a senior judge, especially as he had only just recieved the recommendation. So i asked if it would make a difference that the defendant had not even turned up. Apparently not. He said they'd probably received the same document as him and thought it wasn't worth sending anyone. That's fair on me isn't it, seeing as I hadn't received any such document. I then mentioned the other 4 cases that had been successful in the past 2 days - 'were they at manchester?'....well, no. He said something along the lines of 'well there you go then'. He was a friendly, smiley chappie but still one who's monumentally p***ed me off.

Oh and the best bit. The case has been stayed until SEPTEMBER 30TH 2008.

 

Woopee-doo.

 

I hope other people who had cases today or soon get a better result in than me. I must have the worst luck in the world to have a stay put on my case without Barclays even asking for one, or even turning up . Does anyone know of any other cases where this has happened?

 

(P.S. I'm away for the weekend, so I might not reply until Monday)

[juicyd]

:mad: for you and also why your judge thought he couldn't go against GUIDANCE ? what a chicken.

 

Bl**dy hell, you didn't even get your costs of going today HOW can they justify saying they will grant stays that are not even requested and not bother to tell BOTH SIDES in advance

 

so, you incur costs of going, Barclays don't, they don't even incur the cost of applying for a stay sorry but why should they get off scot free paying charges when ordinary people have to pay to ask for the stay to be lifted?

 

this is crazy. Mad, and frustrated on your behalf but well done for having your say and making him think twice. Sounds like you were very organised and cool and did a great job. Not your fault he was too spineless to do what was right ie consider the overriding objective

[KennyVinegar]

Thanks juicy, I don't get it either. I have to say though, I forgot to ask for costs, probably because I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

 

I just think Barclays are laughing now 'we didn't comply with directions....we didn't request a stay....we didn't even turn up to court....but we got the stay!!!' B*stards.

[tezl]

bad luck,well its not really,its just another example of how the law abiding people of this country are being put down.you are told to and you follow the rules,get nothing.tez