Barclaycard no CCA just t&c???

[johno23]

Hi

 

I have requested to Barclaycard that they supply me with a signed credit agreement.

All that they keep sending me is a copy of there current terms and conditions enclosed and also terms 7 conditions from July 2006.

 

Please can someone give me some advice on a letter that can be sent or what to do next.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many Thanks for you advice!!

Edited August 15, 2009 by johno23
Removal of personal data

[cerberusalert]

Account Number:

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the dispute continues

 

Yours faithfully

[johno23]

Thanks for your quick reply.

 

i have printed off the letter and will send tomorrow recorded delivery.

 

Let's see what happens, will keep you posted.

 

Will just send T&C again.

 

Thanks

 

Johno

[johno23]

ok sent dispute letter recorded delivery on 24th March, had no response as yet.

Due to reading loads of posts on here regarding Barclaycard only sending terms & conditions, i am going to send off a SAR request tomorrow 31st recorded delivery.

If they do not produced a valid agreement after 40 days from this request they will be in serious default.

 

Will keep you all posted!

[johno23]

SAR request sent today recorded delivery with £10 postal order.

 

They now have forty days from today!

[johno23]

Just thought my Barclaycard was taken out in Feb 07, do all CCA procedures apply to this account.

[cerberusalert]

Key provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 were brought into force on 6 April 2007. The following changes amend the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the “Act”) and represent a significant reform to this regime.

 

New definition of “individual”. New lending to partnerships of more than 3 persons is excluded from regulation.

 

Abolition of automatic unenforceability. Courts will now have discretion to enforce all invalidly executed agreements; the restrictions on this discretion, which applied in respect of certain infringements have now been lifted.

 

Financial Ombudsman Service (“FOS”). A new consumer credit jurisdiction is added to FOS’ existing mandate. Customers will be entitled to refer complaints (relating to an event after 6 April 2007) to FOS after they have raised the matter with the licencee. Businesses must ensure they have an complaints handling policy and that it meets the minimum standards set out by the DISP Sourcebook, part of the Financial Service Authority’s Handbook. Businesses should also ensure that relevant changes are made to agreements/other documents to include a reference to FOS.

 

Unfair relationships. This test replaces the extortionate credit bargain provisions. These (significantly wider) provisions will apply to all new consumer lending (not just regulated agreements) except FSA regulated mortgage contracts. However, there will be a transitional period, until 6 April 2008, before application is extended to existing agreements.

[johno23]

Cheer cerb!

 

Still heard nothing 18 days in to my SAR request, apart from daily phone calls to home & work even though I have sent an harrassment letter.

 

WIll wait until 40 days up with a reminder letter and that they will not of adhered to my requests for a copy of the original credit agreement.

 

Also not happy that they are placing adverse history on my credit file.

 

If not sorted after 14 days from my request then again will be reporting them to the relevant authorities.

 

Gosh this site provides you will loads of confidence in dealing with the Creditors!!

 

Thanks!!

[cerberusalert]

Complain to your local Trading Standards & the OFT about the 'phone calls, particularly the ones to your workplace as it is harassment and against OFT guidelines.

[johno23]

I contacted OFT and they said why do I want a CCA in the first place and I need to complain to the FOS not Trading Standards.

 

Is it as a do not acknowledge any debt to Barclaycard

Edited April 17, 2009 by johno23

[cerberusalert]

It's a standard reply from some TS's, it is their responsibility to look into a complaint which is covered by the CCA 1974. As for them wanting to know why you want a copy of your CCA the answer is simple, it is your legal right to request a copy of a credit agreement at any time & if the TS's took the time to educate themselves they would know that. I'm afraid you'll just have to push them harder.

[johno23]

ok I will have to send it by letter instead of contacting them by phone!

 

Will wait for the 40 days to be up so i can complain to them about non complaince and harrassment!

 

Are there any template letters for FOS & Trading standards.

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

There are no templates that I'm aware of, just give an outline of the problem & if they want further information they'll ask anyway.

[johno23]

I have received my SAR request and have received no signed agreement or any terms & conditions what so ever.

 

I am going to write a final letter to inform them.

 

Do i put at the top of my letter I acknoledge no debt to your company.

 

 

Thanks

[42man]

Johno....edit as required and send recorded...

 

Dear Sirs/Madam

 

Subject Access Request - Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges.

 

2) You have provided no copy documents relating to any correspondence between myself and your company

 

3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

 

4) You have provided no copies of default notices or agreements

 

I enclose a copy of the previous request that was made, which was signed on delivery to your company on (date)

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technial Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

You have until (date of the 40th day) to comply with this request.

 

Yours faithfully,

[joneseyblod]

Barclaycard can be a pain with supplying these credit agreement requests.

 

If its beyond the 40 days you might want to make a complaint to the Information Commisioners office as well.

[johno23]

Ok

 

Just struggling with who to complain to and what for!

 

I know to complaing to OFT, Information Commisioner, FOS, Trading Standards but not sure what to complain to each.

 

Any advice!!

[42man]

You need to write back as stated in post #15. When does the 40 days expire for them to comply with your SAR ?

[42man]

If they fail to provide the agreement within the 40 days allowed to supply the paperwork then you will need to submit a LETTER BEFORE ACTION giving them 7 days to comply or you will take them to court....

 

One example of a Subject Access Request Letter Before Action

 

Blackheath loans

 

One example of how to fill out the court forms when a company fail to produce your Subject Access Request.

 

Havinastella V Lloyds TSB

[42man]

I see from your posts above that they have until around the 9th May to comply.....some financial organisations will send other details to you under separate cover...

[lickthewallfatboy]

it took sharklycard over a year to supply us with a set of t&c's with nothing even resembling an agreement

[johno23]

i spoke to Barclaycard tonight as i was sick of all the calls I was receiving even though i have sent off two harrassment letters.

 

I watched the video on the main page on this site where it showd someone speaking to a creditor and that gave me great confidence.

 

I started by asking there full name and stating that i was recoding the conversation and if they minded.

 

I informed her about all the letters that had been sent recorded delivery and that the account was in default and unerforceable until barclaycard could produce a valid agreement.

 

She asked me why i wanted the agreement and i informed her it was my legal right and she should no the procedures of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

She informed me that she would investigate and could not understand why i had not recieved it and all the letters i had written.

 

She appolgised and ensured no one would contact me again by phone and they would have a response to the investigation on the 10th May 09.

 

Get in there!

[tosh1]

subbing

[johno23]

Ok i have still received no signed credit agreement from a 77-79 request nor from a sar request.

 

Today i received a phonecall from Mercer's there collection agency.

 

They say they only need to provide terms & conditions under a 78 request.

 

Also why I wanted a signed credit agreement - as it was my legal right.

 

I asked why not produced it under SAR request and they replied they have a legal right not to produce a signed credit agreement.

 

They said whoever is informing me is giving me incorrect informtaion. Good coming from them eh!!

 

I said take me to court and put the phone down!!

[cerberusalert]

Make a complaint to both the OFT and the Information Commissioners Office.