1st Credit - a particularly aggressive DCA

[conar686]

Background I'm in IVA and am maintaining payments to all my creditors.

 

This company has bought my debt (£1000) and have rejected the payment offer equal to what I was paying to the original creditor. Instead they are asking for a sum closer to £26 which is not practical nor reasonable

 

At the moment I've done a number of things to slow them down as they really want to put a charge on my property

 

1. I've hit them with a SAR asking for all data on all systems

 

2. Disputed their right to the debt as I have received nowt from the original creditor to say that the debt was sold on asking for a copy of the deed of assignment - they have responded to this by stating that I'm not entitled to see the deed & quote s136 of the law of property act as their reason for not doing so - any ideas?

3. Asked for a properly executed copy of the Credit Agreement as part of the SAR

 

All of the above has resulted in them putting on hold the account until the original creditor supplies them with the signed credit agreement.

 

I asked for a copy of a telephone conversation where one of their employees threatened me with court action if I did not come up with the £1000 in 7 day - they state that they need not comply with this request and quote Durant v FSA 2003 as their reason fro non compliance - is this correct??

 

Anyone had dealings with this lot, who can offer advice on getting them to behave reasonably or help on my questions above would be appreciated.

 

MAC

[42man]

Subscribing !!!

[Dispirited]

Subscribing too!

[Curlyben]

Surely this is waaay out of order and should be dealt with by your IVA people.

Failing that you need to CCA 1st Credit to ensure that they have the legal right to collect this "debt".

A template letter can be found here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html Letter N.

What the CCA request does is asks 1st Credit for a copy of the original signed credit agreement. Now there are a couple of deadlines.

the first is 12 WORKING days after they receive it.

If they don't comply then you can stop paying them until they do.

After a further month they are in criminal default and serious trouble.

Then it's time to get Trading Standards involved.

 

The CCA request needs a set fee of £1.

[tomterm8]

I asked for a copy of a telephone conversation where one of their employees threatened me with court action if I did not come up with the £1000 in 7 day - they state that they need not comply with this request and quote Durant v FSA 2003 as their reason fro non compliance - is this correct??

 

MAC

 

Nope. All telephone recording systems would constitute a relevant filing system for the purpose of the act, since they all allow you to retrieve data on a particular call made against a particular account.

[tomterm8]

Are you actually in an IVA? if so, and they are included in the IVA, what they are doing is illegal. Were they (or the original creditor) included in the IVA?

[42man]

If you're in an IVA....then surely they can't contact you...I presume you have an Insolvency Practitioner who handles your admin/payments - or is it one of these IVA companies....as I understood it, these companies CAN NOT contact you....but the incredibly wise people on here will know more than me....

[rory32]

I'm not entitled to see the deed & quote s136 of the law of property act as their reason for not doing so

Completely irrelevant - I will post why later when I have more time.

 

they state that they need not comply with this request and quote Durant v FSA 2003 as their reason fro non compliance - is this correct??

 

They have rather twisted the findings of this case to their own ends. If you wish to read a short summary of the case it is here IoC comments re: Durant v FSA

 

The full case notes can be found here http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2136/durant-v-fsa.htm

[Curlyben]

136. Legal assignments of things in action.]- [/b](1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice-

(a)

the legal right to such debt or thing in action;

(b)

all legal and other remedies for the same; and

©

the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:

Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice-

 

(a)

that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or

(b)

of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;

he may, if he thinks fit, either call upon the persons making claim thereto to interplead concerning the same, or pay the debt or other thing in action into court under the provisions of the Trustee Act, 1925.

 

(2) This section does not affect the provisions of the Policies of Assurance Act, 1867.

 

Here's s136 of LoP 1925.

Basically they are talking crud, but when do DCA's not.

 

DCA's normally quote the LoP as the method that is used to purchase debts.

Under SAR they are required to give you ALL the information they hold INCLUDING the deed of assigment, the LoP quote is smoke and mirrors.

 

I'm sure rory will correct me if I'm wrong and add to what I have started.

[lisa1987]

This lot want nearly £6000.00 off me. I've sent them a CCA request their time is up on the 19th July. They phoned my mobile yesterday and I didn't answer. Left a message on the voicemail could I contact Kirsty at 1st credit.

The money they want from me is a loan my ex partner took out 2 years ago. They are chasing me because it was a joint bank account with the scAbbey National. 1st credit first contacted me and said it was my loan and not my ex partners as I was the one who requested it. I contacted scAbbey who told me this was a lie. 1st credit then told me they spoke to my ex partner who told them he would take me to court rather than pay. All lies. I told them fine I'd see them in court and then sent them the CCA request.

 

I am still worried though because the amount of money they say I owe and they will go to ANY lengths to get their money as some people have found out. They don't care if they break the law.

[Curlyben]

Lisa, please start your own thread as it will make it easier to follow.

[tomterm8]

Here's s136 of LoP 1925.

Basically they are talking crud, but when do DCA's not.

 

DCA's normally quote the LoP as the method that is used to purchase debts.

Under S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) they are required to give you ALL the information they hold INCLUDING the deed of assigment, the LoP quote is smoke and mirrors.

 

I'm sure rory will correct me if I'm wrong and add to what I have started.

 

there is a lot of debate as to whether the DPA 1998 entitled you to a copy of the deed of assignment; my personal inclination is that it doesn't... but that since any court actioon is founded on the DoA, in the event of court action they must disclose it.

[rory32]

there is a lot of debate as to whether the Data Protection Act 1998 entitled you to a copy of the deed of assignment; my personal inclination is that it doesn't...

That's my conclusion as well.

 

but that since any court actioon is founded on the DoA, in the event of court action they must disclose it.

That again is my conclusion, which is why it's always worth asking for it.

[conar686]

CCA 1st Credit to ensure that they have the legal right to collect this "debt".

 

tks Curlyben

 

I've hit them with a SAR for all data, in particular I have requested as per the template

 

Copy of signed credit agreement

Deed of Assignment

 

Stillgot 20 days of deadline to go

[conar686]

If you're in an IVA....then surely they can't contact you...I presume you have an Insolvency Practitioner who handles your admin/payments - or is it one of these IVA companies....as I understood it, these companies CAN NOT contact you....but the incredibly wise people on here will know more than me....

 

Tks 42

 

I am indeed with one of the IVA companies as I found the free pay ones very disappointing.

 

In the case where the debt has been sold on, I'm being told, negotiations begin again as I can't stop my creditors from this action. The problem is negotiation requires participation & this lot don't want to play at the moment.

[ODC]

The simple thing that ALL of these DCAs fail to recognise is by their own aggressiveness they get our backs up causing people to google them and end up here. They threaten all sorts and when you arrive here you discover the to be the purveyors of falsehoods that they actually are.

 

One day some of us will be approached by a nice DCA who will listen to our problems take a sympathetic view and agree a sensible repayment schedule

[clutchingatstraws]

After they have sent an enforceable CCA within the correct timescale I hope.

[conar686]

Nope. All telephone recording systems would constitute a relevant filing system for the purpose of the act, since they all allow you to retrieve data on a particular call made against a particular account.

 

Tks TT

 

They quote Durant v FSA in particular they rely on 'the statutory right of access to personal data will only apply if the filing system is structured as a relevant filing system. To constitute a relevant filing system the manual files should be structured to enable the searcher to go straight to the correct category & retrieve the information without a manual search, or should be indexed as to allow the searcher to go directly to the relevant pages.'

 

They go on to say that the ICO have confirmed in writing they are satisfied 'that the way this company structures/holds its audio recordings' does not fall under the SAR provisions of the DPA.

 

I'll challenge this & ask for a copy of the ICO guidance letter and how their systems are structured so as to avoid their responsibilities under my SAR , doubt I'll get it, worth asking for anyway.

 

MAC

[ODC]

As far as I know the SAR demands all information they hold on you and this would include telephone calls. If of course yo make an allegation of a criminal offence then the boys in blue would be able to obtain such recordings IF they exist. I have found that most DCAs do nor record any calls as they know that most of the crap and threats they come out with is totally illegal. However to be on the safe side always record any conversation you have with a DCA.

[conar686]

Can anyone put into English the Quote from Curlyben on the s136 of the LoP. As per, legal words make my teeth itch - I can't understand whats being stated.

 

Does this allow them to process your data for instance as they claim they have defaulted me already with a CRA (waiting for my reports). I suspect not & have sent a s 10/12 notice.

 

I strongly suspect they own my debt now, else why would they take this much trouble, should I send my old payments to them for the time being until we reach agreement on other payments?

[tomterm8]

Tks 42

 

I am indeed with one of the IVA companies as I found the free pay ones very disappointing.

 

In the case where the debt has been sold on, I'm being told, negotiations begin again as I can't stop my creditors from this action. The problem is negotiation requires participation & this lot don't want to play at the moment.

 

Has the IVA not started yet, then?

 

Can anyone put into English the Quote from Curlyben on the s136 of the LoP. As per, legal words make my teeth itch - I can't understand whats being stated.

 

Does this allow them to process your data for instance as they claim they have defaulted me already with a CRA (waiting for my reports). I suspect not & have sent a s 10/12 notice.

 

I strongly suspect they own my debt now, else why would they take this much trouble, should I send my old payments to them for the time being until we reach agreement on other payments?

 

There are lots of types of "own". A legal assignment is the assignment of all rights and duties of a debt. This is what's required if you are going to sue in your own name. Once someone assigns the debt, they must send you a notice. That is all the section means, that if someone sells all rights and duties it is effective only when they notify you of the fact.

 

The section has nothing to do with whether they need to send you a document of assignment. (even the wording, as in "deed" is wrong).

 

Lots of DCA's, and I'm thinking Cabot, are assigned an equitable interest (i.e. the benefits) and then try to argue that they have a right to enforce the debt in a court in their own name. They do not.

[conar686]

Thanks TT

 

My DMP started 2 yrs ago this is the first time I've had anyone behave in such an unreasonable manner . Still thats the beneift of this site 'you ain't alone and there's always someone who is willing ot help' .

 

I've responded to their letter re-iterating my SAR stating that I require a copy of the deed of assignment before I acknowledge their right to act in this matter.

 

I've contended their right to process my data asking them by what mechanism they think they can do so and info'd them that their reliance on Durant is lame as Mr Durant tried to obtain information on a third party and all I am asking for is data referring to me.

 

Thet'll get back to me in a few days so I'll post more then

[babybear39]

Hi conar686,

 

My situation with 1st redit is slightly different but you might find something useful in my thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/92556-help-again-please-1st.html

 

Good luck and best wishes,

 

BB

[remus]

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[Vampyra]

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