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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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What is VOSA, and can they stop cars?


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Someone at work was talking about an organisation they think were called "VOSA", which had people running a roadside vehicle inspection.

 

They seemed to be picking cars and directing them into a lay-by for inspection.

 

There were no police around.

 

I know that drivers are required to stop when directed to do so by a uniformed police officer, and this is of course perfectly reasonable. Police officers will doubtless have some good reason for stopping a driver.

 

However, I don't see how drivers can be required to stop by other people. Crooks would have a great time if they could simply direct cars to stop in a lay-by, then force the occupants out and steal their vehicles and contents!

 

(Impersonating a police officer is a serious offence. Donning a yellow jacket with some mysterious letters on it is not ...)

 

Does anyone know what VOSA is up to? Surely if they are a bona fide agency carrying out some lawful activity, they should be able to arrange for a police officer and patrol car to be in attendance, to reassure drivers the agency is acting lawfully.

 

Tim

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I am a Petrol Tanker driver for BP and yes VOSA do have the powers to stop any vechicle and carry out roadside checks, they are basicly the replacement for the ministry of transport, they can issue prohibition notices on vechicle owners if they are not road worth etc.

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VOSA normally operate roadside checks in partnership with the Police. The Police officer will direct the vehicle into the checkpoint or weighbridge and VOSA will then carry out the inspection. All perfectly legal.

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Here in Scotland, VOSA operate in tandem with the police, on their own a driver can quite legally refuse to follow their instructions to pull over at the roadside and just keep on going. A police officer making a similar request MUST be obeyed or you can be done for failure to stop. The trouble is a lot of folk see a flourescent jacked as 'authority' and just comply. I don't unless I see it is a properly uniformed police officer!

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The Police Refornm Act 2002 allows chief officers of police to accredit other organisations or individuals with the power to stop a vehicle.

 

However, as you rightly point out, this power does not extend to Scotland.

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Much of the legislation with regard to Law and Roads are devolved issues as therefore not subject to what would normally be 'accepted practice' in England & Wales. On a side note, wheel-claming is illegal in scotland (the High Court referred to it as 'extortion') which is why private parking firms have not flourished here.

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Someone at work was talking about an organisation they think were called "VOSA", which had people running a roadside vehicle inspection.

 

They seemed to be picking cars and directing them into a lay-by for inspection.

 

There were no police around.

 

I know that drivers are required to stop when directed to do so by a uniformed police officer, and this is of course perfectly reasonable. Police officers will doubtless have some good reason for stopping a driver.

 

However, I don't see how drivers can be required to stop by other people. Crooks would have a great time if they could simply direct cars to stop in a lay-by, then force the occupants out and steal their vehicles and contents!

 

(Impersonating a police officer is a serious offence. Donning a yellow jacket with some mysterious letters on it is not ...)

 

Does anyone know what VOSA is up to? Surely if they are a bona fide agency carrying out some lawful activity, they should be able to arrange for a police officer and patrol car to be in attendance, to reassure drivers the agency is acting lawfully.

 

Tim

Hi Tim, VOSA actually have more authority to stop and check not only LGV drivers but regular car drivers. They do not need to have a reason like traffic police. They can impound your vehicle and also issue you with a prohibition niotice where appropriate.

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FYI:

The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) was formed on 1st April 2003 following the merger of the Vehicle Inspectorate and the Traffic Area Network division of the Department for Transport. VOSA provides a range of licensing, testing and enforcement services with the aim of improving the roadworthiness standards of vehicles ensuring the compliance of operators and drivers with road traffic legislation, and supporting the independent Traffic Commissioners.

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Capital One: - *Settled in full* 02/02/07

MBNA: - *Settled in full* 30/01/07

Yorkshire Bank (Friend) - *Settled in full* 30/06/07

LLoyds TSB x 3 in progress (Friend x 2 and Husband again)

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FYI:

The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) was formed on 1st April 2003 following the merger of the Vehicle Inspectorate and the Traffic Area Network division of the Department for Transport. VOSA provides a range of licensing, testing and enforcement services with the aim of improving the roadworthiness standards of vehicles ensuring the compliance of operators and drivers with road traffic legislation, and supporting the independent Traffic Commissioners.

 

Thanks for that. I am catching up with the reading.

 

Interestingly, *no-one* I've spoken to here in Hampshire was aware that Hampshire police have accredited VOSA staff with the power to stop vehicles ... in fact no-one had heard of VOSA. So we'd all be in the position of being instructed to stop by people wearing a jacket with the name of an organisation we'd never heard of, and which we were unaware had the power to stop us.

 

Tim

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I know vosa cause they did stop me lol ! but it was a police officer who pulled me over but left evreything to the other guy to explain everything and issue me with a ticket to get me car sorted within 21 days or then they would take it further so it was a good thing as they detected faults that made the car unroadworthy that i didn't know about but they give you 21 days to get it sorted

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I know vosa cause they did stop me lol ! but it was a police officer who pulled me over but left evreything to the other guy to explain everything and issue me with a ticket to get me car sorted within 21 days or then they would take it further so it was a good thing as they detected faults that made the car unroadworthy that i didn't know about but they give you 21 days to get it sorted

 

Yes, testing and advising of faults is a good idea. By the way, what happened after you got the car fixed?

 

It's the absence of a police constable that's the problem. Anyone can put on a jacket with "VOSA" written on it and direct people to stop in a nearby area. (And when you do stop, what do you do if someone jumps out and immobilizes your car because where you've been directed to stop is private property?)

 

Tim

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It's the absence of a police constable that's the problem. Anyone can put on a jacket with "VOSA" written on it and direct people to stop in a nearby area. (And when you do stop, what do you do if someone jumps out and immobilizes your car because where you've been directed to stop is private property?)

 

Tim

 

Or punches you in the teeth and steels your mobile and keys - no way on the planet I'm stopping for ANYBODY except the old bill.

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Or punches you in the teeth and steels your mobile and keys - no way on the planet I'm stopping for ANYBODY except the old bill.

 

Well, it seems to me that VOSA's activities will increase, so over time we will all become more aware. And some VOSA staff *will* be accredited with the powers of a police constable, and so on the face of it failing to stop *is* an offence.

 

What you can reasonably do is ask for documentation from the person claiming to have authority to stop, and call the local police to verify it before following their directions.

 

Tim

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Do any of them have ID hanging around their neck ?

 

The sensible thing to do, would be to pull up with your window open just an inch (with locked doors, of course), and ask for their ID and what their purpose is in stopping you. You have a right to be cautious in a situation like this - and the Police would be the first to advise this approach if there was a copycat group operating this kind of a thing.

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Or punches you in the teeth and steels your mobile and keys - no way on the planet I'm stopping for ANYBODY except the old bill.

 

Well now that you know who VOSA are you'll be able to stop for them. :p And how do you know that the Old Bill in the unmarked car really are the Old Bill? Anyone car purchase strobes and uniforms on the net. Point is that you'll be in a whole lot more trouble if you don't stop. It's unlikely you'll be stopped by a single VOSA officer. Normally they'll be in pairs in marked cars or they'll be in a huge group with vans and equipment everywhere.

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Or punches you in the teeth and steels your mobile and keys - no way on the planet I'm stopping for ANYBODY except the old bill.

VOSA Have MORE authority than the old bill!! If you are driving a lorry for example, and a coppper asks you to stop and take your tacho out, he cannot enforce it inless he has a reason to stop you , eg, a headlight or trailer light out. VOSA stop you and ask you take your tacho out, they need no reason to stop you. Same in a car. Old bill ask you stop, they need a reason, VOSA ask you to pull over and they don't need a reason.

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Studio: *Settled in full and more* 09/12/06

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Barclays: - *Settled in full* 04/01/07

Capital One: - *Settled in full* 02/02/07

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Then what? What does the ID of an accredited VOSA agent look like? Who do you call to verify they really are an accredited VOSA agent for your county?

 

Presumably you call the police.

 

Tim

Right... So, we don't stop then ? Is it not fair to have a defence of "unsafe circumstances" or something like that ? If these people supposedly have as much right (if not more) than the Police to pull us over and snoop around the vehicle, surely some foolproof way of ensuring their identity and authority are clearly visible would be a wise move ?

 

Anyway, how are we supposed to know about these guys and their powers ? I know ignorance is no defence, but really - Take a lone female driver with a kid in the back who is afraid of stopping for obvious reasons...

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Right... So, we don't stop then ? Is it not fair to have a defence of "unsafe circumstances" or something like that ? If these people supposedly have as much right (if not more) than the Police to pull us over and snoop around the vehicle, surely some foolproof way of ensuring their identity and authority are clearly visible would be a wise move ?

 

Anyway, how are we supposed to know about these guys and their powers ? I know ignorance is no defence, but really - Take a lone female driver with a kid in the back who is afraid of stopping for obvious reasons...

 

But then anybody could put on a fluorescent jacket with 'Police' on the back and pull you over culdn't they? VOSA are the Government agency responsible for improving road safety standards, and regulate amongst other things the issue of MOTs. In the same way as police officers don't wear their ID around the neck, they still have to produce it on request, as do VOSA staff.

 

VOSA inspectors drive clearly marked vehicles and their roadside checks are always well signed - I have never had a major problem with them. If they manage to pull in a lorry driver with a badly loaded vehicle, enforce rest for a driver who may have driven across Europe without taking adequate rest or dare I say it highlights a safety problem with a car that the driver might have been unaware of then that is good surely?

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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Well said Sidewinder.

 

I think that most of you who would/might refuse to stop would bring more grief upon yourselves if you refused to stop. Whereas you might have got a warning or a rectification notice if you had co-operated; I'd hazard a guess that you would get your vehicle impounded or prosecuted by the Police for failure to stop. Sometimes humility in the right circumstance is better than bravado behind a keyboard.

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