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    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
    • Euro have got a lot wrong and have failed to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.  According to Section 13 after ECP have written to Arval they should then send a NTH to the Hirer  which they have done.This eliminates Arval from any further pursuit by ECP. When they wrote to your company they should have sent copies of everything that they asked Arval for. This is to prove that your company agree what happened on the day of the breach. If ECP then comply with the Act they are allowed to pursue the hirer. If they fail, to comply they cannot make the hirer pay. They can pursue until they are blue in the face but the Hirer is not lawfully required to pay them and if it went to Court ECP would lose. Your company could say who was driving but the only person that can be pursued is the Hirer, there does not appear to be an extension for a driver to be pursued. Even if there was, because ECP have failed miserably to comply with the Act  they still have no chance of winning in Court. Here are the relevant Hire sections from the Act below.
    • Thank-you FTMDave for your feedback. May I take this opportunity to say that after reading numerous threads to which you are a contributor, I have great admiration for you. You really do go above and beyond in your efforts to help other people. The time you put in to help, in particular with witness statements is incredible. I am also impressed by the way in which you will defer to others with more experience should there be a particular point that you are not 100% clear on and return with answers or advice that you have sought. I wish I had the ability to help others as you do. There is another forum expert that I must also thank for his time and patience answering my questions and allowing me to come to a “penny drops” moment on one particular issue. I believe he has helped me immensely to understand and to strengthen my own case. I shall not mention who it is here at the moment just in case he would rather I didn't but I greatly appreciate the time he took working through that issue with me. I spent 20+ years of working in an industry that rules and regulations had to be strictly adhered to, indeed, exams had to be taken in order that one had to become qualified in those rules and regulations in order to carry out the duties of the post. In a way, such things as PoFA 2012 are rules and regulations that are not completely alien to me. It has been very enjoyable for me to learn these regulations and the law surrounding them. I wish I had found this forum years ago. I admit that perhaps I had been too keen to express my opinions given that I am still in the learning process. After a suitable period in this industry I became Qualified to teach the rules and regulations and I always said to those I taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. If opinions, theories and observations are put forward, discussion can take place and as long as the result is that the student is able to clearly see where they went wrong and got to that moment where the penny drops then that is a valuable learning experience. No matter how experienced one is, there is always something to learn and if I did not know the answer to a question, I would say, I don't know the answer to that question but I will go and find out what the answer is. In any posts I have made, I have stated, “unless I am wrong” or “as far as I can see” awaiting a response telling me what I got wrong, if it was wrong. If I am wrong I am only too happy to admit it and take it as a valuable learning experience. I take the point that perhaps I should not post on other peoples threads and I shall refrain from doing so going forward. 🤐 As alluded to, circumstances can change, FTMDave made the following point that it had been boasted that no Caggers, over two years, who had sent a PPC the wrong registration snotty letter, had even been taken to court, let alone lost a court hearing .... but now they have. I too used the word "seemed" because it is true, we haven't had all the details. After perusing this forum I believe certain advice changed here after the Beavis case, I could be wrong but that is what I seem to remember reading. Could it be that after winning the above case in question, a claimant could refer back to this case and claim that a defendant had not made use of the appeal process, therefore allowing the claimant to win? Again, in this instance only, I do not know what is to be gained by not making an appeal or concealing the identity of the driver, especially if it is later admitted that the defendant was the driver and was the one to input the incorrect VRN in error. So far no one has educated me as to the reason why. But, of course, when making an appeal, it should be worded carefully so that an error in the appeal process cannot be referred back to. I thought long and hard about whether or not to post here but I wanted to bring up this point for discussion. Yes, I admit I have limited knowledge, but does that mean I should have kept silent? After I posted that I moved away from this forum slightly to find other avenues to increase my knowledge. I bought a law book and am now following certain lawyers on Youtube in the hope of arming myself with enough ammunition to use in my own case. In one video titled “7 Reasons You Will LOSE Your Court Case (and how to avoid them)” by Black Belt Barrister I believe he makes my point by saying the following, and I quote: “If you ignore the complaint in the first instance and it does eventually end up in court then it's going to look bad that you didn't co-operate in the first place. The court is not going to look kindly on you simply ignoring the company and not, let's say, availing yourself of any kind of appeal opportunities, particularly if we are talking about parking charge notices and things like that.” This point makes me think that, it is not such a bizarre judgement in the end. Only in the case of having proof of payment and inputting an incorrect VRN .... could it be worthwhile making a carefully worded appeal in the first instance? .... If the appeal fails, depending on the reason, surely this could only help if it went to court? As always, any feedback gratefully received.
    • To which official body does one make a formal complaint about a LPA fixed charge receiver? Does one make a complaint first to the company employing the appointed individuals?    Or can one complain immediately to an official body, such as nara?    I've tried researching but there doesn't seem a very clear route on how to legally hold them to account for wrongful behaviour.  It seems frustratingly complicated because they are considered to be officers of the court and held in high esteem - and the borrower is deemed liable for their actions.  Yet what does the borrower do when disclosure shows clear evidence of wrong-doing? Does anyone have any pointers please?
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Bryan Carter CCJ - Very Worried


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Hi and thanks for reading this.

 

I suffer with depression and Aspergers syndrome, I have good and bad spells. Winter is usually quite tricky.

 

I don't really have a fixed abode, I often stay with my brother but I move around. I don't work since redundancy came along nearly 5 years ago. I'm nearly 50 and my nerves are not the best, the Aspergers seems to be getting worse and dealing with daily life feels increasingly uphill. I don't claim any benefits at all, some wealthy relations give me some pocket money in the form of an informal quarterly loan which just rolls up and will one day be offset against an inheritance (assuming I'm still above ground).

 

When I was made redundant I had a number of things on credit which I couldn't pay. I sold my house and everything I owned worth selling, paid off what I could and moved on. I ignored the letters that followed afterwards - my bank account is registered to my brothers address so after a while the letters started going there. They were just general threats, nothing happened and they gradually mostly stopped. I find the whole thing hard to approach and very frightening.

 

Two weeks ago I discovered that Arrow Global / Bryan Carter Solicitors have obtained a CCJ on 7th March, in the amount of £4,999 + £186 costs, and I have been ordered to pay Bryan Carter solicitors £50 per month by/starting 6th April.

 

I have no idea whether I actually owe this amount or anything at all to Arrow Global...I probably owe someone something that has eventually made it's way to Arrow Global, it's hard to say. I have no records and my memory has holes in it for chunks of time.

 

People with Aspergers often have trouble making decisions, and I am befuddled by the choices. I feel like I should belatedly try and get the Judement set aside so that I can ask for proof of what I do or do not owe, but my circumstances are odd to say the least and might seem odder to a court. I am also scared that this acknowledgement that I can be reached via an address will send a beacon flashing to other creditors' agents which re-igntes who knows what nasties sitting in the wings.

 

I could ignore the thing completely - it neither bothers me nor my brother whether baliffs turn up or not. I own nothing so what can they do, I don't even officially live there (or anywhere). But armed with a CCJ they could shut down my bank account which would be a major problem.

 

I could ask the court to amend the payment to a lower amount - but, again, explaining my circumstances or finances (basically I have no finances...but I still get some money), is tricky...or so it seems to me.

 

I could just try and pay £50 a month...but I would have to ask for more money (which obviously I am very loathe to do) and, surely then Arrow will just go around trying to gather up whatever other debts of mind they can find or take on and have a field day.

 

I've sat and thoughts about it for 2 weeks...if I don't get some advice I'll still be sat here at Christmas. But now time is short.

 

What on earth should I do?

 

Thank you,

 

Adrian

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Hi Adrian,

 

Welcome to CAG these debts are not priorities at all, even if the lot of them

were to take you to court you have no income and sadly no permanent home.

If the worst happened and they pursue the court claims you are quite clearly

a vulnerable person with no traceable income they cannot have that that does

not exist.

 

Have you tried any of the charitable organisations in your area for help

with benefits and housing?

I see if anyone else here can offer any suggestions.

Coming to CAG Adrian you are not alone.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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carter cant shut your bank acount down so put that out your head.

 

as for bailiffs, its a civil debt so they cant be involve either.

 

if you knew nothing about the CCJ

 

get it set aside.

 

BC are a crafty lot, and i bet the debt is dodgy in the first place.

 

you ideally should check your CRA file

 

it will give you a good few pointers

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Is this a really old CCJ or a new one issued recently. Personally I would check first to see if there are any charges being added to the acount, late payment fees etc.. . if this is your debt that is.

 

Any PPI taken out on this debt?

WARNING TO ALL

Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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Two weeks ago I discovered that Arrow Global / Bryan Carter Solicitors have obtained a CCJ on 7th March, in the amount

of £4,999 + £186 costs, and I have been ordered to pay Bryan Carter solicitors £50 per month by/starting 6th April.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I just wondered if it was an old dormant CCJ and they have recenetly found Adrian. Claim back all charges and PPI if any.

WARNING TO ALL

Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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Hi thanks for writing. I am confused though, I went on a government site looking at the enforcement action that can be taken for ignoring a CCJ and one of the things they outline is that they can apply to have your bank account frozen and the money in it paid to the creditor - and the first you know of it is when you can no longer gain access to your account. I would like to understand how this is wrong as it is a significant worry to me, thanks.

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Hello Adrian,

 

I think you need to get in contact with an agency such as National Debtline - We do have a couple of Nat Debt official reps on the site and your thread has been flagged for their attention.

 

If you would prefer not to wait then perhaps you might like to telephone them.. 0808 808 4000

 

This is the link to their website NATIONAL DEBTLINE you could also email them.

 

If you explain to them exactly what you have said in your first post - perhaps they could point you in the right direction.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Would your brother be able to help with any paper work - perhaps attempting to get the CCJ set aside and checking to see if there are any charges or PPI that could be reclaimed.

 

You need information from Credit reference agencies, and from the original creditors. I am assuming that as you have moved around then it is unlikely you have statements or letters tucked away somewhere ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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You could check to see when and where this CCJ was issued by searching trust online

 

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/ - it will cost you £2.00

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I have no paperwork at all from before, and no longer have access to the bank a/c I used in those days. But there was never any PPI on anything I had as I was particular about that. The CCJ was issued at Northampton CCJ 7th March 2012, I have the letter N30 'Judgement for Claimant (in default)' and that's all with that date, 7th March, on it. If I try to set it aside then I assume I might have to attend a court to explain my situation which frightens the life out of me. I'll call the National Debt helpline later today as you suggest, makes sense. Thanks.

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Hello aidrianbruce,

 

We're keen to help. If you've not already contact us please feel free to do so on the number that Citizen B has listed.

 

If you have already called and have spoken to an adviser how did you find the service?

 

Best wishes,

 

National Debtline.

For Free, Confidential and Independent advice: 0808 808 4000

Monday - Friday 9am to 9pm // Saturday 9.30am to 1pm // 24-hour voicemail. Please leave a message to request an information pack. http://www.nationaldebtline.org // http://www.mymoneysteps.org

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