Littlewoods agreement not signed

[pt2537]

Well they are talking out their bottoms

 

you cannot by accepting a catalogue be bound into a regulated credit agreement

 

they tried that one with me and i merely pointed them to section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

which requires the agreement to be SIGNED by both parties

 

no signed doc, no agreement end of story

[lizzy40]

My mind just went blank wasn't expecting to speak with anyone over the phone but I wouldn't have been able to state that term.

 

Anyway I need to write to Moorcroft should I just say my account is in disbute for more details contact Littlewoods...

[The GodMother]

I would suggest thet you do write to them informing the account is in dispute and make sure they know why.

 

All tho please prepare yourself for this letter.

 

Further to your recent correspondence, l write to confirm that we require a monthly repayment proposal you can afford and maintain to enable us to Assist you further.

 

My partner is currently dealing with Moorcroft ova a disputed accoiunt with virgin media and when we wrote to them informing them the account is in dispute they sent us this letter.

 

They then sent us a letter advising they are preparing to take court action and again we wrote to them stating they cant as we are disputing the account with Virgin media and they sent us the same letter.

 

We have not heard from them since.

[pt2537]

Bear With me and i will come back later with a letter to send them to sort them out

[lizzy40]

Thank you so much I really do appreciate it - I have read you thread regarding the problems you have had with Littlewoods. You seem to know your stuff....

 

Thanks....

[The GodMother]

Oh Pt doesnt just know his stuff he nos how to hang them out to dry if you no what i mean.

[scousepie]

MY wife is having the the same problems, none compliance on 3 accounts, just waiting for the 30 day dead line to arrive then im writing to all the bodies

 

p!ss take if you ask me....

[pt2537]

Appologies for not getting back to you sooner, ive been very very busy,

 

i am going to be back online in the morning, ive got a letter up my sleeve and i will post it up then,

 

regards

paul

[pt2537]

 

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xx/xx/2007

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you recently contacted me by telephone, please note I do not wish to conduct negotiations regarding this account by telephone, I will from this point on only communicate with your company in writing

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to Littlewoods requesting a true copy of the credit agreement for this account, in sure you will be aware the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 states that they documents under a S78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 should be supplied within 12 working days, this time frame expired on xx/xx/2007. Section 78(6) clearly sets out the consequences of failure to comply with such request

For the avoidance of doubt I have included the section for you

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(2) …….

(3)….….

(4) ………

(4A)……

(5) ………

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

Littlewoods have failed to date to supply a true copy of the executed agreement therefore they are not entitled to enforce this agreement while this default continues NOR are you allowed to pursue this debt either

Please note that this account is currently subject of a dispute and therefore should not be subject to collection activity by your company as this is a clear breach of the Office of Fair Trading (Debt Collection Guidance)

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

Clearly your pursuance of this debt falls into this category;

 

Should you continue to persist in pursuing me for this unsubstantiated debt I will make a formal complaint to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading. Furthermore you may be in breach of S40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

I also would like to correct a comment one of your members of staff made in a recent telephone call to me, She said that when a catalogue was sent to me it lists all the terms and conditions in the back and on accepting that, that is your agreement

 

She is seriously mistaken and it is misguided to tell people this, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is clear on what is required to make a regulated agreement enforceable.

 

It must be a document containing the prescribed terms as laid down in schedule 6 column 2 of in Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) which was amended by Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI2004/1482) and further more, most importantly the document must be signed by both creditor and debtor in the prescribed manner as laid out in section 61 CCA 1974

 

To clarify s61 (1) states

 

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

Therefore your advice is clearly wrong that mere acceptance of a catalogue will bind me into a regulated agreement, this can only be done me and the creditor signing a document in the form laid out in the CCA 1974

 

 

What I require

 

 

 

I require all communications in writing; I also require the production of a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account before I will consider discussing this matter any further with your company. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

 

 

I require this information within 7 days of the date of this letter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i would throw something like that at them(moorcroft) it should give them the message loud and clear, you may need to check the spelling and amend it to suit your situation

 

regards

paul

[lizzy40]

Thank you so much pt2547 it sounds great. I just have a couple of question before I send letter.

 

I first sent Littlewoods a credit agreement request in March 2007 and they sent me a blank copy of what an agreement should be (no signatures) this I received in August 2007 so sent then another credit agreement request in September 2007 no response from this as yet. I have also sent them a CPR rules and regualtion request asking for all information about my account including the true signed agreement this I sent special delivery on 16 November 2007.

 

I was under a payment plan with NDR so have I admitted the debt?

 

They passed my file on to Moorcroft and didn't tell me?

[pt2537]

Thank you so much pt2547 it sounds great. I just have a couple of question before I send letter.

 

I first sent Littlewoods a credit agreement request in March 2007 and they sent me a blank copy of what an agreement should be (no signatures) this I received in August 2007 so sent then another credit agreement request in September 2007 no response from this as yet. I have also sent them a CPR rules and regualtion request asking for all information about my account including the true signed agreement this I sent special delivery on 16 November 2007. ok well we dont need to tell them this as they have no right to collect this debt while the default continues

 

I was under a payment plan with NDR so have I admitted the debt?

 

NO absolutley not, you can only be legally bound to them by a regulated agreement containing all the prescribed terms and signed as already stated in the letter.

 

They passed my file on to Moorcroft and didn't tell me? and thats why we are fighting back, they have to prove they have a legal right to collect this debt until they do they can go away to put it politley

 

 

if you have any other questions please ask away

[lizzy40]

Yes I do have another question hope you dont mind.

 

I also have another account with additions direct this is also owned by littlewoods I do have a signed agreement with this account can they use this agreement to enforced it?

[pt2537]

No. this agreement will only be relevent for the additions account

 

and just to add, just because you signed the agreement for the additions account, does not mean that A. they still have a copy and B that the copy they have (if they have one) is enforcable

 

regards

 

paul

[lizzy40]

Thats a relief!

 

I do have a copy and I have signed it?

 

The letter to Moorcroft I would like to sent recorded delivery but the Moorcroft address is a po box number and I don't think po box numbers take signed letters?

[pt2537]

can you post the copy? we can scrutinise it then

 

as far as moorcraps address i dont know but im sure there is a postal address somewhere that we can find

 

regards

paul

[alfwithhair]

Name & Registered Office:

MOORCROFT DEBT RECOVERY LIMITED

MOORCROFT HOUSE

NO.2 SPRING GARDENS

STOCKPORT

SK1 4AA

[lizzy40]

Yes I can post a copy but not sure how to do that?

[lizzy40]

Thank you alfwithhair for the moorcroft address...

[scousepie]

Thats a relief!

 

I do have a copy and I have signed it?

 

The letter to Moorcroft I would like to sent recorded delivery but the Moorcroft address is a po box number and I don't think po box numbers take signed letters?

 

Hi Lizzy,

 

I can confirm that they do sign for po box letters,,My mate works for RM and he said that the Po box is where all the letters are collected and are delivered in one bundle so the PO Box is at the sorting office.

[lizzy40]

Thanks Scousepie....

[lizzy40]

i'M TRYING TO WORK OUT HOW TO SCAN MY AGREEMENT BUT WHEN i PASTE TO MY THREAD THE WORDS ARE ALL JUMBLED UP WHAT AM i DOING WRONG?

[scousepie]

Lizz,

 

The scanned doc should be uploaded to a hosting site like UploadOne.com or photo bucket then copy the link page or the url script, click on insert image and paste the link on ths page.

 

if that makes sense.

[lizzy40]

So I cant just scan the document and paste?

[scousepie]

So I cant just scan the document and paste?

 

lizz, the scanned doc will be on your pc in my docs, open an account with UploadOne.com, when you have opened the free account their is an option to upload pics.

 

Click on the upload button on that site select what you want to upload from your pc my docs, after the upload is complete goto my-gallery on that site you will see the img script, highlight that info then copy it to this web page, you will need to click on the icon on the top of this page that says Insert image its like a stamp/hills icon.

 

and thats it..

[lizzy40]

Thanks scousepie will give it ago tomorrow have a nice day...