Any advice please

[fedupwithDCA's]

Our cousin has had a stroke and we are trying to sort out his finances, it appears that when he was made redundant he had a large number of credit cards, which he has been trying to pay off - although not the minimum payment. Barclaycard have sent me copies of his statements and a large amount owed is made up of late payment charges and because he was over his limit. Now that he is unable to work he has given us Power of attorney to deal with his debts. Since February we have drawn up a list of known creditors and written to them all explaining the situation and asking them to put his debt on hold while we contact everyone and supply the POA in order to get them to deal with us and ask them not to contact our cousin as his blood pressure is so high that any stress could cause another stroke. Only a few have listened while others have continued to send post to an old address, which we are paying to have forwarded and others are still ringing and mailing to his new address. We have got as far as requesting a copy of the agreement, together withy a copy of the assignment letter, stating that we need proof of the debt as we are handling our cousins finaces and obviously don't want to pay anything out to anyone if they are not entitled. Out of probably 30 creditors most have cashed cheque, one has sent a copy of the card application and one has sent the bailiffs to our home to recover the debt. We had offered a settlement figure based on the National Debtline advice, which a few have accepted and insisted on payment within a few days, but they still ahve not provided the requested info. Others appear to have sold the debt on again and it looks like we have to provide all the POA, sick certs etc again. My husband and I work full time and this is taking up all our free time and we are no further forward. I'm sorry this has gone on a bit but any advice would be gratefully recieved.

[Curlyben]

Remember the rules of thumb.

DCA - CCA

OC - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for the charges.

 

have you spoken to payplan or similar to get the whole lot into an official DMP ?

Mind you if the debt is substantial, bankruptcy might very well be the best course of action.

Now I don't normally advise such a course of action, but as your cousins health isn't quite what it should be then it might be prudent to take this route and help with his convalescences.

At least this will cut down the amount of stress involved.

[Percival Wigglesbottom]

This letter i found on here could be useful to you, add delete amend as required.

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated 21st June 2007, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated 26th April 2007. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. An application form does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until 25th May 2007 to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. You entered into a default on 25th May 2007 and subsequently committed a criminal offence on 25th June 2007.

 

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

----

 

 

They cannot send bailiffs, they need a court order for that. They are mere doorstep collectors . You tell them to go away , conduct no further dialogue. That is all the consideration you need to give to them . Do not discuss anything with them or let them into your house, they have no right in this respect. Just say ' go away' , and close the door. Finito.

[conar686]

I'd also look at the harassment sticky and start sending out a few nasty letters of your own to those companies who are still sending your cuz mail instead of to you as requested. e.g. one such as the following;

 

Harassment by telephone - response letter

 

I agree with CB contact Payplan, citizens advice or any of the other free debt mgmt services and get them to take over the payments side which will leave you the time to deal with the nastier elements in the ways prescribed on the website.

[gizmo111]

More info here

[fedupwithDCA's]

Thank you for your replies, will issue letters this evening. We cannot make cousin bankrupt as he does have a savings as his mum died recently. We just cannot get to the bottom of what he owes to whom and get the DCA to provide info and agree a settlement figure as they keep selling debt on or ignore our letters.

Thanks for support, will keep plodding on

[babybear39]

Hi fedup,

 

Subscribing...

 

Good luck and best wishes to you all,

 

BB

[detectall]

Follow the CCA forum advice given to you. Once you've put each account into dispute the DCA'S won't be able to pass the debts on. I know it's hard to deal with but you are not alone and eventually you will get the results that you have strived for.

 

Best wishes,

Detectall

[fedupwithDCA's]

Thanks for advice I'm in process of sending 25 default letters out, a few DCA's have come back with a copy of the signed application form and a few statements. Am I right in saying to them that these application forms are not what is required under the consumer act, that they should be sending a signed copy of a credit agreement?

[PriorityOne]

Thanks for advice I'm in process of sending 25 default letters out' date=' a few DCA's have come back with a copy of the signed application form and a few statements. Am I right in saying to them that these application forms are not what is required under the consumer act, that they should be sending a signed copy of a credit agreement?[/quote']

 

A signed Application Form is not a CCA.... they need to have an enforceable Consumer Credit Agreement in order to legally pursue you for payment. Make sure all CCA requests go off by rec. delivery and keep the receipts... make sure you know which receipt applies to which CCA as well... you can make copies at the local library, if it helps.

 

You mentioned bailiffs have turned up in the past.... did you mean debt collectors ?.... as there is a huge difference.

 

If you or your cousin are getting inwanted visits and/or 'phone calls, I will post up one of the bog off letters which normally stops them in their tracks.

[MrsL]

*subscribing*

 

You are in safe hands now Fedup, good luck with everything

[fedupwithDCA's]

Yes we had an officer from the court, who was extremely apologetic and referred the papers back to the court. Bryan Clark solicitors have sent us three letters since. The first was accepting our offer of a £1 a month, which we hadn't offered (we had sent out a statement of creditors and a budget sheet showing that cousin had 49p a week left to pay all 20+ creditors) then we had a letter accepting our offer of a one off payment, although we still hadn't received proof of debt and then we had a 3rd stating same as 1st. I have sent them they same default letter but I expect they must have had something to take it to court, unfortunately paperwork must have been mislaid as cousin hadn't opened post for a few years when we took over sorting the mess out for him. I have admended telephone har. letter and have sent one to each DCA. So thanks very much.

God I'm going grey!! No wonder cousin had a stroke

[MARTIN3030]

I personally find it helps to be organised yes.

Best way I have found is to keep recorded delivery / special delivery slips at home.

On top of all your communications with your ref number simply type in the number of the long serial printed on the slip you will be using.

After posting staple the stamped slip along with any post office receipt to a copy of the letter.

If the slip does get lost,you still have record of the number on the letter and can still get tracking info at any time from online Royal mail tracking.

Another tip is rather than have to photocopy docs later,Print off additional copies and file them.

Tesco sell a pack of 5 Coloured card folders for about a quid.These are very good for using.

At the end of the day its also good to have a cleared area with plenty of space too.............especially when preparing court bundle !!!

[PriorityOne]

Yes we had an officer from the court, who was extremely apologetic and referred the papers back to the court.

 

This sounds like a CCJ (County Court Judgement).... in which case, it cannot be challenged by a CCA request. It is possible to apply for a set aside.... but you will need to give a few more details about when the CCJ was applied, what it's for, how much, etc....in order to look into it more. If a set aside is not feasible, then you can apply to the court to have payments reduced to an affordable level.... I think it's Form N244, but someone else is best to guide you on this one.

Bryan Clark solicitors have sent us three letters since. The first was accepting our offer of a £1 a month, which we hadn't offered (we had sent out a statement of creditors and a budget sheet showing that cousin had 49p a week left to pay all 20+ creditors) then we had a letter accepting our offer of a one off payment, although we still hadn't received proof of debt and then we had a 3rd stating same as 1st.

 

Is this the same debt ? If so, carry on with the £1 a month payments... as this should keep them off your back. If they want to go ahead and take your cousin/you to court, a court would not rule any differently.... which is probably why they've backed down a little.

 

I have sent them they same default letter but I expect they must have had something to take it to court, yes, they already have a CCJ... unfortunately paperwork must have been mislaid as cousin hadn't opened post for a few years when we took over sorting the mess out for him. I have admended telephone har. letter and have sent one to each DCA. So thanks very much.

God I'm going grey!! No wonder cousin had a stroke

 

CCA requests can only place an account in dispute if there is no CCJ on there already. Are there any more CCJs to your knowledge ?

I know this must be a minefield for you, but we will try and get you through it one step at a time.

 

 

[fedupwithDCA's]

Thanks Martin I have three ringed folders with dividers and copies of all correspondence, as well as stored on computer. Two folders are for open collections and one is for debts that I found in unopened post that seemed to have vanished and no one appears to be chasing. Any ideas as why, as Goldfish are owed about £3000 and there has been nothing on that one since August 2006, the same with MBNA, nothing since Aug 2004? In total we have 22 debts that no one at the moment are chasing

[fedupwithDCA's]

Thank you for that, I did think that was the case so have left their letter unposted until i was sure. I'm not sure if there are any more CCJ's, I have got a credit report and need to sit and study it. We were going to settle this one but think we will keep to the £1 per month for now. These were the people that when my husband rang to seek clarification they hung up on him, so never got any answers to our queries regarding the debt. Did fill out form that you mentioned and that is why the payment was reduced from £50 to a £1 a month. Thanks for all your support, I have dealings with lots of vulnerable people in my job, ensuring people get their correct benefits etc, god knows how people get on without support or access to websites etc. They must be worried sick.

[PriorityOne]

There are 3 credit main reference agencies.... Experian, Equifax and Call Credit. It might be an idea to get a copy from each to see what's on there.

 

If your cousin hasn't moved and he is not currently being chased for certain debts... then it may mean that those accounts are in the process of/have been sold by the original creditors... and the new "owners" have not yet reared their ugly heads, so to speak. Anyway, if they are not currently bothering your cousin... let them be for the time being.

 

It's not usually a good idea to conduct any personal business over the 'phone. You are unlikely to find out anything to your advantage and DCAs have a tendency to lie. I'm glad to read that you've filled out the appropriate forms in order to get the CCJ account down to £1... well done . Put this one to one side now.... as it's being covered.

 

Ok... how many other accounts are currently being pursued ? Please take your time and list them one by one. Name of DCA/creditor... amount being pursued.... whether any payments have been made... approx. age of accounts (if known).... and whether you have sent a CCA to them.

 

[fedupwithDCA's]

Thanks I'll start collating info you require but will take a day or so!

[fedupwithDCA's]

I've managed to collate some info on current cases, all of these have had requests for CCA and default letters sent. Most of them have been going on since 1997 with small payments where possible but charges for late payment and being over limit has really increased the amounts outstanding. I done a rough calculation on a Barclaycard one as they sent a few copies of statements rather that CCA and out of money owed £1368.79 there were at least £600 charges and that was for only about 18mths.

Aktiv Kapital First Inv £810.84 - Buchanan Clark & Wells. Ambrose £445.38 - Ambrose Wilson. American Express £584.69-CapQuest Debt Recovery Ltd. Barclaycard £1368.79 - HFO Services. Clyesdale Bank £519.75 - Robinson Way & Co Equidebt Ltd £1494.81 - Equidebt Ltd. Equidebt/Liverpool Vic £334.75 - Equidebt Ltd. Halifax (HBOS) £1715.32 - 1st Credit. Halifax £1169.94 - 1st Credit. HBOS £1359.52 - Equidebt Ltd. HBOS £1083.73 - Equidebt Ltd. HBOS £973.9 - 1st Credit. HFC £2920.85 - HFC Bank. HSBC£126.94 - Buchanan Clark & Wells. Liverpool Victoria £334.75 - Equidebt Ltd. Lloyds TSB £4706.29 - Allied Credit International. Lloyds TSB £463.88 - 1st Credit. Marks & Spencer £598.39- CapQuest Debt Recovery Ltd. Marshall ward £150.17 - National Debt Recovery Ltd. MBNA £1262.52 - Arrow -Credit & Business Services. MBNA £2522.67 - Cabot Financial (Europe Ltd). Nat west £950.5 - Rockwell Debt Collection Agency. Yorkshire bank £990.93 - Robinson Way

I will try and put together a better list of those not being chased as that is a smaller file. Thanx for help

[PriorityOne]

I've managed to collate some info on current cases' date=' all of these have had requests for CCA and default letters sent. [b']So ALL of those listed below have defaulted on separate CCA requests... sent by rec. delivery ? [/b]Most of them have been going on since 1997 with small payments where possible but charges for late payment and being over limit has really increased the amounts outstanding. I done a rough calculation on a Barclaycard one as they sent a few copies of statements rather that CCA and out of money owed £1368.79 there were at least £600 charges and that was for only about 18mths. If there's no CCA, then it's unenforceable unless/until they can locate it at some stage. In theory, you could go after the charges on this account to bring it down to its correct balance... but in doing so, you would be "acknowledging" the debt, so to speak. Whilst there is no CCA however, any outstanding amounts are unenforceable and since you have a lot on your plate right now.... the easiest way forward would be to just cease all payments after the 12 working days from their receipt of your request, due to their non-compliance with it.

Aktiv Kapital First Inv £810.84 - Buchanan Clark & Wells. Ambrose £445.38 - Ambrose Wilson. American Express £584.69-CapQuest Debt Recovery Ltd. Barclaycard £1368.79 - HFO Services. Oh, I see... this is the Barclaycard one. Seeing as it's with a DCA and they have defaulted, just cease all payments as described above. Clyesdale Bank £519.75 - Robinson Way & Co Equidebt Ltd £1494.81 - Equidebt Ltd. Equidebt/Liverpool Vic £334.75 - Equidebt Ltd. Halifax (HBOS) £1715.32 - 1st Credit. Halifax £1169.94 - 1st Credit. HBOS £1359.52 - Equidebt Ltd. HBOS £1083.73 - Equidebt Ltd. HBOS £973.9 - 1st Credit. HFC £2920.85 - HFC Bank. HSBC£126.94 - Buchanan Clark & Wells. Liverpool Victoria £334.75 - Equidebt Ltd. Lloyds TSB £4706.29 - Allied Credit International. Lloyds TSB £463.88 - 1st Credit. Marks & Spencer £598.39- CapQuest Debt Recovery Ltd. Marshall ward £150.17 - National Debt Recovery Ltd. MBNA £1262.52 - Arrow -Credit & Business Services. MBNA £2522.67 - Cabot Financial (Europe Ltd). Nat west £950.5 - Rockwell Debt Collection Agency. Yorkshire bank £990.93 - Robinson Way

Ok... so these have ALL been CCA'd. I am assuming that they have only defaulted by 12 working days and not by the additional calendar month as well ? Or have they now gone past that additional timeframe ?..... a total of around 43 days. If they are still pursuing your cousin for payments whilst in default of your request by 43 days, you can send the letter that I will post up shortly (by rec. delivery). If they hassle you for payment before that time, just file it away in your filing system. If they attempt to make 'phone contact, just say "In writing only please" and hang up. Are they hassling you by 'phone ? I am assuming not because your cousin would have a different 'phone number. Is that right ?I will try and put together a better list of those not being chased as that is a smaller file. Thanx for help

No worries...

 

How is your cousin doing, by the way ?

[PriorityOne]

Ok... suggested letter for anybody pursuing you for payment whilst in default of a CCA request. Short and sweet and to be sent by rec. delivery.

 

Dear xxxx

 

Your ref : xxxxxx

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

A legal request for a true copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974) was received by yourselves on xx/xx/2007. Until such times as you are able to comply with this request, the above account remains in dispute and unenforceable.

 

Yours sincerely/faithfully,

 

If you do happen to get an alleged CCA sent to you, do not assume that it's the real deal. They often try and pass off Application Forms as CCA's... which is naughty.

 

[fedupwithDCA's]

In reply to your replies I have requested CCA from all of these and have now sent default letters to them as most have not provided agreement only the odd one has supplied a copy of the original application form, which I have been told is not a CCA? Other than that I have received a few copies of old statements. The original requests for CCA's were sent between 24 April and 1 May 2007.

[PriorityOne]

An Application Form is not a CCA... you are correct, so they are well in default of your request.

 

This means that your cousin is within his rights to withhold any further payments until/unless they can produce an enforceable CCA. They should not be pursuing payments either.... although it's likely that you will receive some kind of contact from them at some point. If this is by letter, keep hold of everything. If it's by 'phone, log all calls by time and date.... and I will post a bog off letter on here for you to send.

[fedupwithDCA's]

Sorry didn't see bit about cousin, he's Ok eyesight has been affected, it was already bad hence the problems reading mail and small print but now his brain is sending wrong messages so a table could be a person. Biggest problem is he keeps missing things, so dinners end up on floor and if he goes out becomes disorientated. Pleased that we have taken on DCA's as I think the worry had a lot to do with stroke. Didn't realised how high a persons blood pressure could go, originally it was 300+ over 240 and docs have only just managed to get it down to a reasonable level - has taken nearly 6 months though. Anyway thanks for asking.

[PriorityOne]

Your cousin is very blessed to have you looking out for him like this. It sounds as if he was under a great deal of pressure for a long while.... You are all in my thoughts.

 

Has anyone advised you about completing a Disability Living Allowance claim pack for him ? If not, it would be worth looking into.