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    • Well done. Are you able to tell us more about how it went on the day please? HB
    • when mediation call they will ask the same 3 questions that are in their email you had to accept it going forward. simply state 'i do not have enough information from the claimant to make an informed decision upon mediation so i refuse. end of problem.  
    • Food prices, including a $40 chicken, has stoked fury and calls for big foreign supermarket chains to come to Canada.View the full article
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business CEntre Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio i Ltd How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self   Date of issue –  15 Feb 2024 Particulars of Claim What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?  The claim is for the sum of £922 due by the Defendant under and agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a Capital One account with an account reference of [number with 16 digits] The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a Default Notice was served under s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit ACt 1974 which has not been complied with. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 16-06-23, notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of the issue of these proceedings in the sum of £49.15 The Claimant claims the sum of £972 What is the total value of the claim? £1112 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I dont know the details of the PAPDC to know if it was pursuant to paragraph 3, but I did receive a Letter of Claim with a questionaire/form to fill. Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? no Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned/purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I was aware, I'm not certain I received a 'Notice of Assignment' from Capital One but may have been informed the account had been sold without such a title on the letter? Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not since the debt purchase, and not from Capital One. Why did you cease payments? I can't remember - it was the tail end of the pandemic and I may not have had enough income to keep up payments - I am self-employed and work in the event industry - at that time. I also had a bank account that didn't allow direct debits and may have just forgotten payments and became annoyed at fines for late payments. What was the date of your last payment? Appears to be 20/4/2022 Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No Here is my Defence: Defence - 1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had an agreement with Capital One but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of having been served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) 5. The Defendant has sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has yet to comply and remains in default of said request. 6. A further request has been made via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied and to date nothing has been received. 7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to: a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and; b) show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed for and; c) show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 88 CCA1974 d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim 8. As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed 9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of section 136 of the Law of Property Act and section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. .................. Please note that I had to write a defence quite quickly as I hit the deadline. At the time of writing the defence, I hadn't been able to find correspondence from Capital One, but had since found default letter etc. I submitted CCA request and CPR 31.14. However, I didn't get any proof of postage or use registered post for the CPR (an oversight) but did with the CCA request. I received a pack which included a letter from Overdales, going over the defence I'd filed, as well as letters of Lowells and reprints of letters from Capital One. But I have no idea if this pack is in response to the CCA request or the CPR ! I would have expected two separate responses ... although I do know they are both the same company. Looking over the pack today, and looking through old emails .. I find some discrepancies in the Capital One default letters (notice of default and Claim of default). They are both dated *before* an email I have stating that a default can be avoided. The one single page of agreement sent (so not the full agreement) has a 16 digit number at the top in small print, next to 'Capital One' which corresponds to a number called 'PURN' printed at the top of each of the 10 pages of ins and outs of the account (they're not official statements, but a list of monthly goings) yet no mention anywhere on either of the account number. I cant really scan them at the moment - I can later tomorrow, but that will be after the mediation call I'm sure. I guess I may be on my own for this mediation ... I am not certain the CCA request has been satisfied .. or if the CPR has been . And then I appear to have evidence that the Default notices provided are fabricated ? Yet, I do have (elsewhere ... not at home) Default letters from Capital One I can check ..
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I promise to pay the bearer.. oh yeah?


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I've often wondered what would happen if bank customers handed over their fivers (and higher denomination banknotes) and demanded that the bank fulfil the promise on every banknote, ie; the promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of (whatever) pounds. The word "pound" in terms of money refers to the weight 240 silver pennies. Banknotes are not actually money but a promisary note on behalf of the Bank of England. Banknotes were issued to enable merchants to exchange a convenient representation of actual sterling (ie; high grade) silver for goods or services. The banknotes could then be presented to any bank which, by law, was obliged to pay the bearer the banknote's value in sterling silver which did not necessarily have to be in the form of 240 silver pennies per pound but did have to be the equivalent weight in sterling silver.

 

Prior to 1528, the "pound" referred to the Tower Pound (equal to 5,400 grains and worth about £78.75 in the current market value of silver). In 1528, the standard was changed to the Troy Pound, which is a little heavier and valued in today's market at around £84.

 

Now, despite the fluctuations in the value of the pound as a unit of currency, I know of no law passed that voids the promise that is still printed on banknotes today. The word "pounds" still carry the same historical meaning as far as I have been able to ascertain.

 

Maybe there is a law that releives the banks of their obligation to hand over £420 worth of silver when I present my fiver and demand the bank fulfils the promise on the banknote. If anybody knows more about this, I'd be grateful for the info as I'm seriously thinking of doing this and want to be well-armed with information before attempting to screw the banks like they've been screwing us for so long.

 

Any ideas?

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I've often wondered what would happen if bank customers handed over their fivers (and higher denomination banknotes) and demanded that the bank fulfil the promise on every banknote, ie; the promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of (whatever) pounds. The word "pound" in terms of money refers to the weight 240 silver pennies. Banknotes are not actually money but a promisary note on behalf of the Bank of England. Banknotes were issued to enable merchants to exchange a convenient representation of actual sterling (ie; high grade) silver for goods or services. The banknotes could then be presented to any bank which, by law, was obliged to pay the bearer the banknote's value in sterling silver which did not necessarily have to be in the form of 240 silver pennies per pound but did have to be the equivalent weight in sterling silver.

 

Prior to 1528, the "pound" referred to the Tower Pound (equal to 5,400 grains and worth about £78.75 in the current market value of silver). In 1528, the standard was changed to the Troy Pound, which is a little heavier and valued in today's market at around £84.

 

Now, despite the fluctuations in the value of the pound as a unit of currency, I know of no law passed that voids the promise that is still printed on banknotes today. The word "pounds" still carry the same historical meaning as far as I have been able to ascertain.

 

Maybe there is a law that releives the banks of their obligation to hand over £420 worth of silver when I present my fiver and demand the bank fulfils the promise on the banknote. If anybody knows more about this, I'd be grateful for the info as I'm seriously thinking of doing this and want to be well-armed with information before attempting to screw the banks like they've been screwing us for so long.

 

Any ideas?

 

All I can say is whatever you are on, I would like some!

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lol! would be great if you could, but surely there must be some kind of get out clause for the banks for this otherwise everyone would do it!

If you find the advice I give is useful, then please feel free to click the scales :)

 

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" :)

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lol! would be great if you could, but surely there must be some kind of get out clause for the banks for this otherwise everyone would do it!

 

Oh I don't doubt that there is! But wouldn't it be wonderful if there wasn't? There are numerous archaic laws that have become dormant because they no longer apply but are actually still legally enforceable. Just suppose this was one of them!?

 

By the way Monty 2007, I'm sorry but there are no dealers providing what I'm on. I'm afraid you actually have to go mad.

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lol good idea!!

 

so many little laws that have gone unchanged from eons ago and yet nobody really has any idea about them for unknown reasons.

 

might be worth researching this one and having a go! but hurry do it before someone changes it :)

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To answer the original post.

 

You would get diddly-squat from your bank (or any other High Street bank). They have made no such promise to you; you have no case against them for failing to pay the bearer.

 

The promise to pay the bearer is one made by the Bank of England (the clue is that a banknote has the promise signed by the Chief Cashier of the BoE) - and they don't deal with individuals.

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Notes issued by the Bank of England are legal tender and legal tender cannot be refused in payment of a debt. So, if you go to the Bank of England and present a five pound note and point to the promise you will be given...a five pound note. The promise is a vestige of the days when bank notes represented gold held by the banks, but now there is not enough gold to go round. The sole value of the promise is that if you take to the Bank of England an out-of date note you will be given legal tender in exchange.

 

Whether bank notes are or are not money depends on how you look at it. In practice they are accepted as money and what is accepted as money is money, but all money is an illusion.

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In the 16th century the goldsmith-bankers began to accept deposits, make loans and transfer funds. They also gave receipts for cash, that is to say gold coins, deposited with them. These receipts, known as “running cash notes”, were made out in the name of the depositor and promised to pay him on demand.

Many also carried the words “or bearer” after the name of the depositor, which allow them to circulate in a limited way.

The link between gold and notes issue has been broken many times since their inseption but was finally severed in 1931 when Britain finally left the gold standard and the note issue became entirely fiduciary, that is wholly backed by securities instead of gold.

 

Bank of England|Banknotes|More About Banknotes|A brief history of banknotes

 

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patdavies wrote:

 

"The promise to pay the bearer is one made by the Bank of England (the clue is that a banknote has the promise signed by the Chief Cashier of the BoE) - and they don't deal with individuals."

 

Actually, Pat, they do deal with individuals...... er....... well, individuals that go in with reasonable requests, anyway.

 

Maybe it was the blue woad with which I'd painted my face or maybe it was the hand-woven hemp teeshirt bearing the slogan "DEATH TO THE MONETARY SYSTEM" or the bearskin jodpurs or the lime green wellies... Then again, the horned viking helmet (although I did remove it when entering the bank even though it didn't technically qualify as a motorcycle helmet) may have alerted them to the possibility that this was not a normal customer.

 

However, the cashier smiled politely when I slapped my rather grubby fiver on the counter and demanded 420 quid's worth of sterling silver.

He shrugged and counted out five one pound coins, saying "Best we can do, I'm afraid"

"I KNOW MY RIGHTS!!!!" I hollered but the cashier simply switched on a mike and announced "Sid! We've got another one!"

Just then, a security guard appeared, frogmarching a customer dressed as Ghengis Khan to the front door "With you in a minute, Tom" he said.

 

Now I admit that I didn't really expect them to hand over five Troy Pounds of sterling silver without an argument but hurling me out the front door head first is hardly the way I'd expected the Old Lady of Threadneedle Street to behave! "You've not heard the last of this!" I shouted...... but, actually, I think they have.... well, from me, anyway.

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  • 2 years later...
Notes issued by the Bank of England are legal tender and legal tender cannot be refused in payment of a debt. So, if you go to the Bank of England and present a five pound note and point to the promise you will be given...a five pound note.

 

I agree this is probably what would happen, however it 'should' not be possible. In UK law it is illegal to pay a debt with a debt; seeing as notes are essentially IOU's from the bank 'promising' to pay, you should be breaking the law any time you exchange them for goods or services.

 

By making the notes themselves legal tender, independant of any sterling silver to back them up, the government circumvents this illegality and puts us all in hock to the banks. Essentially they made an illegal practice legal, but only for themselves, you or I would be criminals for doing the same thing.

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Where have you been for the past couple of years? There is no such thing as money, only confidence in certain things representing relative value. As soon as that value is questioned you get............. oh yes .......... the mess we're all in now.

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The banks want to withdraw cheques by 2015, some will cancel the cheque guarantee card from June next year, as a cheque is a promissory note along with money (both being negotiable instruments) I wonder what the banks intentions are going to be when it comes to cash?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Have been reading all the threads to this, some crap and others who have definately got the idea.

But dont forget this, there isnt any money only debt notes.

Because the private banksters have made the governments of this world bankrupt we only deal in debt notes and you cant pay a debt with a debt.

What they have cleverly done is to create us as the liability on all debt by the STRAWMAN system thro our birth certificate.

The real wheeze is that everything therefore is pre paid and so you should not even have to use notes to purchase goods and services.

 

Look into this as its huge and i cannot possibly go into more detail here, but as a heads up on the monetary system as it stands, get out of dodge and buy silver and gold and get rid of as much cash and shares you can.

Don't say I didn't warn you

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