Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • When you post information here you will have to post it in single file multipage PDF format. Follow the upload link. However, it would be more helpful if you could simply answer the questions that we have put to you and we can deal with paperwork afterwards if we think we need it.  
    • I was trying to post all the paperwork that I have, namely facebook ad, messages between the seller and my son etc . But I'm getting the message that the files are to large. 
    • First of all please can you tell us the name of the seller, something about the van – age/year, mileage, price paid. How far away is the seller from where your son lives? Who do you take it to for this inspection? Are they prepared to give you a written list of the things that they found? This is very important and you may well have to get an independent inspection from somebody such as the AA. This will cost you some kind of feedback we expect that we will be able to help you get it back. I would say that if you have to bring a court claim – which is likely – then your chances of success are better than 95% but the difficulty might be enforcing the judgement against the seller. We will have to no more in order to give you better advice. Does it have an MOT? What is the date of it and who gave it the MOT? I suggest that you start taking pictures of all of the defects that you can find.   Also I am going to say that I believe that you came over from Facebook where you were already informed that we would need at least all of the information which I have requested above. It will save a lot of time and effort for everybody if you can simply come up with the things that we ask without too much delay
    • My autistic son brought a van from a private seller. ( there was 5 other cars on his drive and another van, plus loads of machanic tools in his hallway,  so he probably is a unofficial dealer).  He gave the van a once over, he checked for any warning lights that might be on, there was none. He checked underneath for any rust etc, it all looked fine. The body was rough, but you'd expect that for the age of the van.  He got his brothers machanic to give it a pre mot check, as the van was old so he expected it to have a few problems. The van is a deathtrap, the seller had blacked out all the warning lights that were on the dash,  and I mean all.  He had also painted some kind of black stuff on the underside, to hide all the damage there.   My son drove it for over 2 hours to get it home. The machanic said he's surprised my son is still alive, and an untrained eye would not of seen what the seller had done.  Iv asked the seller for a refund and for him to have the van back, but he is refusing. Is there anything we can do.   
    • The economy grew by 0.6% in the first three months of the year, ending a shallow recession.View the full article
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Basic Introduction to Consumer Credit litigation


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5145 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

This might be a basic Consumer Credit Question:

 

If an agreement is found to be a multiple agreement because 2 categories of credit per CCA need to be found in the type of credit within that agreement, would or could one of those categories be an ' exempt' agreement? ie: an amount which is classified an exempt agreement in line with say s.16 CCA

 

i would think so, yes. I believe a contract may have elements of regulated and unregulated debt... I've never seen any case law either way though, and so I would be cautious. I'm not a lawyer.

 

Also, If an agreement is deemed unenforceable as a result of a wrongly constructed credit /Loan agreement would it be only the 'regulated elements' that are unenforceable and not the unregulated parts?

 

I believe only the regulated elements would be rendered unenforceable by the CCA 1974. Certainly, the use of "regulated agreement" in the applicable sections suggests that. Further, I believe a security would be enforceable with respect to the non-regulated portion, even if rendered unenforceable with respect to the regulated portion.

 

Thanks

..

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 91
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted by Tomterm i would think so, yes. I believe a contract may have elements of regulated and unregulated debt...

 

One presumes if that were the case all the prescribed terms identifying each separately would be necessary?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Establish that the Credit Agreement is valid,

If they fail to provide a signed credit agreement, and the agreement was made before 2004, in most cases (i.e. not an overdraft agreement, or a non-commercial agreement) you have a completely open and shut case. You’ve won.

Sometime after 2004, if they attach proof of ID to you agreement, and it was online, then that may be enough. This is why you should never send proof of ID other than a copy of their own letters or statements! Post it and ask in the thread below, anyway.

If they send you an agreement that was signed by yourself, or which you believe may be enforceable, I would suggest posting it in

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements.html

I would also suggest that you spend some time reading the thread, but I warn you – the debt action Group marathon is to read all 8,000+ posts, a challenge only those with the highest stamina can manageJ Then again, if you read it, you’ll probably know more about consumer credit law than most qualified solicitorsJ That, and by then you’ll have the healthy law student attitude of “needing” half a bottle of tequila…

i asked cabot (DCA) for my SAR all they sent me was computer genirated stuff. No credit agreement they gave me a default the day they took it over i asked them to remove it but they said no I took the original credit agreement out in 2000 and never recieved a copy of the default so what should i do now. pls help

Link to post
Share on other sites

baby girl, probably best you start up a new thread of your own and ask this question there. You will get more help and advice that way. :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Great Advice, thanks

Lowell Financial (Monument) No CCA - File Closed ** WON**:D

1st Credit (Citi Financial) No CCA - Credit Report Marked 'Satisfied' ** WON **:D

American Express No CCA - Pending

RBS Mint No CCA - Pending

CL Finance (Morgan Stanley) No CCA - In Court:eek:

HSBC - No CCA - In Court:eek:

Link Financial (MBNA) No CCA - Pending

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Super stuff, thanks a million tomterm8.

 

Starting to give me the confidence to take on Egg:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/174507-militant-consumers-friend-egg.html

 

Now I just need to get my friend to read your brilliant guide so she's not scared of court either.

 

Cheers again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

For Credit Agreements Made After April 2006, Or For All Credit Agreements After April 2008.

UNFAIR RELATIONSHIPS.

 

 

Hi tomterm,

 

Youre posts are very useful. I am reading them with great interest, as I have today received a Count Court Claim from Cabot re a debt they bought from Morgan Stanley. I am going to have to think very carefully about each aspect of things.

I am a bit confused that you say S140 of CCA 1974 only applies to agreements made after April 2006. I cannot see that anywhere in the Act.

My understanding is that S140 applies to all agreements, except those falling with the exemptions such as S16.

 

Grateful if you could clarify that.

 

Regards

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi tomterm,

 

Youre posts are very useful. I am reading them with great interest, as I have today received a Count Court Claim from Cabot re a debt they bought from Morgan Stanley. I am going to have to think very carefully about each aspect of things.

I am a bit confused that you say S140 of CCA 1974 only applies to agreements made after April 2006. I cannot see that anywhere in the Act.

My understanding is that S140 applies to all agreements, except those falling with the exemptions such as S16.

 

Grateful if you could clarify that.

 

Regards

Peter

 

If you note the date I posted the thread, it was in 2007 when the transitional period for the consumer credit act 2006 was still in place. At that time, s140 of CCA 1974 did not apply to credit agreements made prior to CCA 2006. Now it does.

 

edit: n.b. I'm not on the forum very much these days, so sorry if I didn't answer you quickly enough :)

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

It would be great if somebody could answer a question for me, as I am helping a newcomer to consumer credit litigation on this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/186081-egg-ccj-form-arived.html

 

My question is: what happens if the claimant ignores the CRP letter and you don't have a copy of the CCA - what do you put in your defence? Can you change your defence later once you see a CCA and know for certain how it is flawed?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi militant,

 

If by the time the defendant needs to put in his defence, he has not received a copy of the CCA, then he will file what is referred to as a holding or embarrassed defence. A holding defence will tell the court that the claimant has not complied with the CPR and therefore the defendant cannot plead his case due to the lack of the required documents.

A couple of hundred years ago Meyer Amshel, (1743-1812), founder of the Rothschild dynasty is reported to have told his five sons, “Let me control a nation’s money and I care not who writes its laws”.

 

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what I have written is my own opinion garnered from reading this forum and consumer legislation, and my own experience of the judicial process.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to tickle my scales!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

once we have consumer credit agreements/application forms and they are clearly unenforceable what next.... do we take them to court if so what do we put in POC. or do we just wait 6 years as they will destroy credit file either themselves or by selling to DCA...?????

 

got lots of old agreements 10 years old not sure what to do next????

Only direct action by the masses will work....

 

Look at all successes they have never come from negotiation!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry for asking a question here but its not a credit case but one for being sued for illegal downloading music (which i did not do and intend to defend).

 

My question after reading this invaluable thread is.

 

The firm of solicitors taking me to civil court are based in London. I reside in the North East of England. Where will the case be held? Eg. will I have to travel to London?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for asking a question here but its not a credit case but one for being sued for illegal downloading music (which i did not do and intend to defend).

 

My question after reading this invaluable thread is.

 

The firm of solicitors taking me to civil court are based in London. I reside in the North East of England. Where will the case be held? Eg. will I have to travel to London?

 

That is a bit off topic, but there's a quick answer; ;)

 

The case will be transferred to your local Court.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hi tomterm,

 

This is a great thread in offering the right information people are keen to hear/read.

 

Yes, courts are perceived as scary places and I'm sure the majority of us are persons in litigant.

 

I've got a Natwest battle on my hands so this has helped me enormously in calming down a few wild imagined scenario's. :D

 

Thank you.

x:)x

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Tomterm and others

This is an excellent thread with lots of knowledge freely given.

I have a specific question relating to debts and future pension and feel this may be the right place to post it.

I am new to the forum but I have a few old debts which still hang over me since my divorce in 1995.

(a) I have a credit card debt for £3000 with Capital One and sold on to Capquest. I have made a nominal pay to Capquest since 1998 and still receive letters threating to take me to court and/or send in the bailiffs. The default no longer shows on my credit so my questions are:- should I try to reclaim bank charges and how could i get the debt cancelled. I am 64 years old and am no longer able to work due to disability.

 

(b) I have a credit card debt with RBS for £5000 which was sold to Wescot who issued a default notice. The default should be removed in December this year. If I started the process for reclaiming bank charges can they keep my default on file after December 2009 when it is due to be removed. or could they persue me for the outstanding balance. How could I go about getting this debt cancelled/written off.

 

 

The only asset which I will have is my personal pension which I could take in 2 years time .Currently the fund is valued around £150,000. However I fear that if the Banks/DCA's become aware of this they would attempt to take it from me. I am unsure exactly of what the law on this is but I suspect it might favour the Banks. I have 2 children still in education and would obviously like to be in a position to assist them financially rather than help the Banks/DCA's. This is the reason I wish to sort out what to do about the old debts.

Unfortunately I did not find this thread until after I sent off CCA requests under CCA 1974, can I follow these up with the CPR request detailed in this thread or will it just confuse everything.

Can any of the legal experts advise me my best options are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

For Credit Agreements Made After April 2006, Or For All Credit Agreements After April 2008.

 

 

 

 

 

UNFAIR RELATIONSHIPS.

 

 

This is a completely incomplete body of law. It related to the new unfair relationships terms of the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

 

And it is broad.

 

In short, it includes anything done or not done by the creditor. At all times, the creditor is to behave fairly and reasonably. Exactly what is fair and reasonable is in question.

 

  • Did they breach, at any stage, any code of conduct?
  • What procedures did they put in place to check your credit worthiness before they entered the agreement?
  • What procedures did they use when you first informed them of the problems?
  • What procedures did they use to collect money
  • Was it fair and proportionate to take court action? Did they comply at all stages with the Pre-action protocols? Did they reject offers that you made in good faith, that were reasonable?
  • did they harass you, sending rafts of letters, fail to pass on details of your debt.
  • Did they fail to send a copy of the Credit Agreement within time limits?
  • Was there anything else that is unreasonable?

The burden of proof rests on the creditor in claims under the unfair relationships test.

 

 

In short, I would advise everyone to record ALL PHONE CALLS to DCA’s and creditors, and keep records of all correspondence.

 

Not sure Ive quoted correctly but see how it comes out. Basically, is there now a defenition of fairness? Very new to CAG but just discovered the following:

 

European Unions Directive 2005/29/EC “Unfair Commercial Practices Directive” which states:

a practice will be unfair if (a) it contravenes the requirements of professional diligence and (b) it materially distorts the economic behaviour of the average consumer with regard to the product.

“Professional diligence” is defined as “the standard of special skills and care which a trader may reasonably be expected to exercise towards consumers which is commensurate with either (a) honest market practice in the traders field of activity and/ or the general principle of good faith in the traders field of activity.”

 

I am trying to use this in my own thread. Is it worthy for inclusion here and any views on it appreciated?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/212396-trying-set-aside-judgement-2.html#post2336945

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi its Lyla again

Do you or anyone know what happens at mediation and is it best to take a solicitor with you ?

i ve got Lombard chasing me for £20,000 for a debt that they refused to mitigate & their dodgy debt collector didnt cash the chqs & pretended he couldn t find us & closed the case. Yes have told the CSA and am waiting for an answer from him...but anyway..

My solicitor has suggested that he and a barrister goes...very expensive. anybody got any input??? cheers Lyla

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...