needing advice

[jimmyjammer]

hi guys, its been a while but we received a letter from RW&C this morning. this is the first we've heard from then since their last letter (13 aug 07), that was their reply to our cca request. any suggestions as to what we should do?

the letter we received today:-

[ODC]

Here you go with a Curlyben special. Amend to suit

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of hich have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On the **DATE** I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79).

 

On **DATE** a member of your staff signed for delivery of my written request and I have an electronic proof of delivery showing their signature and the date.

 

To date you have failed to comply with these requests in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the request or by supplying the requested documents.

 

These documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

In my letter of the **DATE** I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under section 77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days your client commits a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

BLAH

[jimmyjammer]

thanks for that..........should she sign it or just type her name?

[ODC]

NEVER SIGN ANYTHING. Signatures have been known to ''appear'' in documents cobbled together with Photoshop not of course that I am alleging RWC would do anything unlawful

[jimmyjammer]

i have now changed the letter to suit and its ready for posting.

 

i was wondering should i also send the same letter to buchanan clark & wells seeing as the last i heard from them was on 27/7/07, they typed up a letter as soon as they got the cca request. the letter stated:-

[ODC]

Wait until and if BCW demand money off you

[jimmyjammer]

ok, thanks for all your help.

 

i am however going to print up a letter anyway, just so its ready to post if they do ask for money. i guess i only need to remove the part at the top of the letter saying...............thankyou for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

is that correct?

[Curlyben]

I wouldn't bother sending anything to BCW until they have something meaningful to say.

[ODC]

I wouldn't bother sending anything to BCW until they have something meaningful to say.

That will probably NEVER happen:rolleyes:

[diskmandave]

No JJ, wait 'til BCW start begging for money again and then send the same letter. No point in waking a sleeping bear!

[jimmyjammer]

i guess i tempted fate yesterday talking about BC&W................a letter arrived from them this morning. please see pic. should i now send them the same letter i sent to RW&C?

btw does the letter i received from BC&W carry any weight, or is it just fear tactics again. they have already sent us a letter in reply to our CCA request stating they dont have the credit agreement at their office as they are not the creditor.

[ODC]

Now is the time to reply with the letter you have got plus add this little CB Gem to the bottom

 

Please note that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing. Should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.

[jimmyjammer]

hope i'm not being silly here, but does that extra bit still apply as i'm in scotland?

[jimmyjammer]

anyone able to answer my last query?

[Curlyben]

Still applies to Scotland.

[ScarletPimpernel]

It's all so pompous, isn't it? 'Personal visitation' - I think they mean visit, or will he be appearing in spectral form (if at all)? 'Authority has now been granted' - what arrant nonsense.

 

The OFT guidelines certainly have this to say about visits:

 

Debt collection visits

 

2.11 Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner.

 

2.12 Examples of unfair practices are;

 

a. not making the purpose of any proposed visit clear, for example, merely stating that collectors or field agents will call is not sufficient

b. visiting a debtor when it becomes apparent that the debtor is distressed or otherwise vulnerable, for example, it becomes apparent that the debtor has mental health problems

c. entering a property uninvited

d. not leaving a property when asked to

f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the debt is deadlocked or disputed

g. not giving adequate notice of the time or date of a visit

h. visiting debtors, unless requested, at inappropriate locations such as work or hospital

 

 

They are already in breach of sub paras a, f & g.

[ODC]

hope i'm not being silly here, but does that extra bit still apply as i'm in scotland?

Just take the English bit out and refer to Common Law:) and instead of calling the Police send for the Polis

[Chalkitup]

Now is the time to reply with the letter you have got plus add this little CB Gem to the bottom

 

Please note that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing. Should it be your intention to arrange a "doorstep call", please remember that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Please therefore take note that, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless.

 

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Just to add my penny worth ..... this letter works a treat ..... I have sent it to several DCA's in the past and I have not heard anymore from them about visiting me!!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[ODC]

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Just to add my penny worth ..... this letter works a treat ..... I have sent it to several DCA's in the past and I have not heard anymore from them about visiting me!!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

I always wonder if its the letter or the fact that they never had any intention of sending a doorstepper out. However that said the letter removes all doubt

[rory32]

Just take the English bit out and refer to Common Law:-) and instead of calling the Police send for the Polis

And the English case law as well.

 

 

Still applies to Scotland.

 

Although I would send the letter as the DCA is unlikely to know about trespass in Scotland, Scotland has different laws of trespass to England. It's a popular myth that in Scotland there are no laws of trespass. Trespass has long been a delict (civil wrong) in Scotland which is remediable by the remedies of interdict and damages. In fact certain types of trespass have been criminal offences since the Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865 was passed. This was only recently amended by The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003.

 

The problem with trespass in Scotland is that there is an expectation of a certain permanency to the trespass, simply being on someone's land without the owner's permission is neither a civil or criminal offence. Although an aggrieved owner may take action in the courts by interdict if he can prove damage is being caused.

 

You may also wish to quote The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 in the letter, but again this expects a certain level of permanency.

 

Also I would change the word tort to delict in the letter as this is the Scottish equivalent of a tort.

[rory32]

On second thoughts you might want to leave the case law in the letter, even though it's not relevant as you live in Scotland, as the DCA probably won't pick up on that and a bit of case law always looks nice.

 

As ODC says, it's always difficult to gauge how effective the letter is when they probably had no intention of popping round for a cosy chat in the first place, but at least it demonstrates that you're not a soft touch.

[jimmyjammer]

we received a letter this morning from RW&Co, i'm guessing this is obviously their reply to our letter that we sent regarding their intention to visit. the letter contains the following:-

 

further to your request for a copy statement/agreement for your account. our client confirms that all relevant information has previously been sent to you, and that the balance outstanding as stated above is correct.

the account is now long overdue for payment and we look forward to receiving payment in full, or your payment proposals, by return.

 

 

whats your thoughts on this, and what would be the best plan of action now?

 

many thanks for all help and info submitted by all you good folk out there, please keep it coming.

[ODC]

Whether or not 'their client' sent the documents or not is irrellevant. They are the clowns chasing the money. They are the clowns you made the CCA request to. They are the ones in default.

[jimmyjammer]

we dont know what their on about, we never received anything from HFC!

 

would it be advisable to just file this letter and wait to see what happens next? or is there anything further we should now be doing seeing as they received our last letter ,but by the looks of it are choosing to ignore it.

[rory32]

At the moment I would simply return the compliment and ignore this letter.