Duffers mum v Sainsburys Bank

[Duffers Mum]

Have just checked the royal mail web site and its saying item still being processed through the system, I sent this off a week ago...I presume I should probably resend?

 

Also, going back to the DN, are either of these (posted above) correct, from reading other posts I don't think the second one is, but not sure which one I would have to rely on if this went to court? I'm sure I read someone that there can only be one default notice served..is this right? and if so why did Sainsburys not register the first one (which would obvioulsy drop off my credit file sooner and is for a smaller amount, because they whacked on a load of charges between the first and second DN's).

 

Really would appreciate some help on this one...its starting to get me worried as I'm pretty sure Crapot will take this one all the way because of the application form/alleged agreement and which is for rather a substantial amount.

 

Many thanks

[Pinky69]

I wouldn't worry about the Royal Mail. It has probably been delivered - a lot of stuff doesn't get signed for. In law if you send it and it doesn't get returned to you, it is deemed to have been delivered. I wouldn't worry about Cabot taking you to court either. They are all mouth and trousers.They would need to produce an agreement in court and they don't have one.

[Duffers Mum]

Thanks Pinky

[havinastella]

Hi DM,

 

Both DN's are faulty. So the most you can owe anyways is the arrears mentioned on the Sept 2007 one.

 

Jogs

[Duffers Mum]

Thanks for that...could you sort of explain (in simpleton terms ) why they are faulty? I'm not very up on this sort of thing (as you can probably tell!

[tastethediff]

Hi,

 

Glad I found this site, being sued by Sainsbury's Credit Card, does anyone know any threads on here that will help me?

 

thanks

[babybear39]

Subbing...

 

Tastethediff, you need to start your own thread

 

Here's how: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

[tastethediff]

Wiil do, just wanted to look round other members posts first!! See if anyone else was being sued by them directly.

 

thanks

[babybear39]

No worries, link the thread here and I'll drop by

[Duffers Mum]

I've been trawling through Pinky's excellent Invalid Default Notices thread and hoping someone can tell me if I'm right in my thinking on the DN's i've received from Sainsbury's Bank.

 

The first one dated 19 Sept 2007 gives me until 3 Oct 2007 to pay arrears of £XXX, which is 14 days, but it appears they have not allowed anytime for postage (2 days 1st class, 4 days 2nd class) so effectively its at least 2 days out...is that right?

 

The second one is probably invalid because they sent the first one anyway, but this one is dated 8th Apr 2008 and gives me until 13 April 2008 to pay arrears of £XXXX (increased due to lots of charges) obviously 5 days is way out.

 

The second one is what is showing on my credit file, next question is should the date of default on my credit file be the date of the DN? I think probably not because it means they registered the default before I would have had time to rectify it (had I chosen to).

 

Thirdly...should they have issued a Termination Notice after the DN once it was clear I hadn't paid anything?

 

Grateful if you could let me know if my interpretation is correct and also whether companies should issue Termiantion Notices (I never received one after either DN).

 

Thanks

Edited June 15, 2010 by Duffers Mum
typo!

[tastethediff]

Hi Babybear39,

 

Link to my thread below,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/263913-tastethediff-sainsburys-court-action.html#post2982728

 

thanks

[havinastella]

I've been trawling through Pinky's excellent Invalid Default Notices thread and hoping someone can tell me if I'm right in my thinking on the DN's i've received from Sainsbury's Bank.

 

The first one dated 19 Sept 2007 gives me until 3 Oct 2007 to pay arrears of £XXX, which is 14 days, but it appears they have not allowed anytime for postage (2 days 1st class, 4 days 2nd class) so effectively its at least 2 days out...is that right?

 

The second one is probably invalid because they sent the first one anyway, but this one is dated 8th Apr 2008 and gives me until 13 April 2008 to pay arrears of £XXXX (increased due to lots of charges) obviously 5 days is way out.

 

The second one is what is showing on my credit file, next question is should the date of default on my credit file be the date of the DN? I think probably not because it means they registered the default before I would have had time to rectify it (had I chosen to).

 

Thirdly...should they have issued a Termination Notice after the DN once it was clear I hadn't paid anything?

 

Grateful if you could let me know if my interpretation is correct and also whether companies should issue Termiantion Notices (I never received one after either DN).

 

Thanks

 

 

Hi DM,

 

Nice work looking up the info, it's better if you know what you are talking about/looking for in case you need, rather than someone telling you why!

 

You are totally correct with the dates, 14 days is not enough for service

 

The 2nd one is only in play, if you paid the arrears on the 1st one.

 

Now, where you are confused is the 'default notice' and the 'default' on your Credit check.

 

These are 'TWO' totally seperate Issues and should not be confused.

 

A default notice is completely different from a default on your credit rating.

 

The default date/stat barred date may be a little different but should really be from the time the first payment was missed, so If you was due to pay on 1st Jan 2000, the stat barred date would be 1st Jan 2006. The default date would normally be 2 months later. This stops them putting the default on the account on the 1st Dec 2005, to keep the account alive for another 6 yrs.

 

Thirdly, if the people chasing you are claiming they owe the account, then is has been terminated, its as simple as that. If it has been terminated, it's unlawful, thats why you only owe the arrears

 

 

Hope that helps

 

Jogs

[Deb T]

.They would need to produce an agreement in court and they don't have one.

 

You'd like to think they'd need to produce an agreement but this post is ofa concern if the contents of the original authors posts are true

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/263898-anybody-lost-dca-case.html

[Duffers Mum]

Hi DM,

 

Nice work looking up the info, it's better if you know what you are talking about/looking for in case you need, rather than someone telling you why!

 

You are totally correct with the dates, 14 days is not enough for service

 

The 2nd one is only in play, if you paid the arrears on the 1st one.

 

Now, where you are confused is the 'default notice' and the 'default' on your Credit check.

 

These are 'TWO' totally seperate Issues and should not be confused.

 

A default notice is completely different from a default on your credit rating.

 

The default date/stat barred date may be a little different but should really be from the time the first payment was missed, so If you was due to pay on 1st Jan 2000, the stat barred date would be 1st Jan 2006. The default date would normally be 2 months later. This stops them putting the default on the account on the 1st Dec 2005, to keep the account alive for another 6 yrs.

 

Thirdly, if the people chasing you are claiming they owe the account, then is has been terminated, its as simple as that. If it has been terminated, it's unlawful, thats why you only owe the arrears

 

 

Hope that helps

 

Jogs

 

Thanks for that

 

I have been making token payments of £x per month on this account since I got into difficulty, however i'm presuming that won't count as paying off the arrears will it? Even if it does I guess the fact that the second DN is duff would then come into play anyway. Therefore it won't become Statute Barred for 6 years since my last token payment which was quite recently and by this time the default would have dropped off anyway.

 

If and when Crapot get back to me and state "the cca Sainsburys have sent is enforceable" (which we think its not) what would be my best course of action? Should I mention iffy Default Notice(s) then, if not, what should I be saying to them?

 

Thank you

 

Deb T - I'm hoping that person just got a ropey judge and that most others would send the DCA packing!

[Duffers Mum]

Royal mail website tracking still saying my recorded delivery letter is progressing through their system.....hope its got to Crapbot, they probably get so many letters they don't sign for them! No doubt i'll hear from them one way or the other in the next few days...

[Duffers Mum]

Received a letter from Crapot saying they note my comments and have contacted Sainsburys about my CCA, account on hold until they get a response...response will no doubt say we have complied and will send me another copy of my application form and a set of T&C's to go with the 10 copies of each I already have!

 

I guess it will then be time to argue about the DN's? Any help gratefully received

 

Another question about the DN..surely once they have sent a DN any fees and charges should cease? If that is the case the outstanding balance on this account should be £800 less than what Crapot are claiming, what should I be doing about this? I'm finding it all rather confusing

Edited June 17, 2010 by Duffers Mum

[debt4get]

wouldnt even mention the faulty d/ns to them..you have made your position perfectly clear..send me a compliant cca..until you do so you will be receiving nothing..zilch...the faulty dn you can keep until and if they ever issue court proceeedings..which is highly unlikely...crapbot have a habit of adding to debts..charges to which they are not entitled..i dealt with them by insisting that they stop the illegal charges put the cca before a judge...OR go away...after 2 and half years of letter ping pong which i now refuse to do they still have not put before a court...and from what they have said on phone they never will..they are happy for me to take them to court to prove validity of cca but why the hell they would think i would do this is beyond me..stick to your guns no cca = no money and if they want anything then they should issue a court claim and take it from there...

[Duffers Mum]

Thank you i get a bit nervous over these things, then all the helpful CAG people come along and help put my mind at rest. What I don't want is them heaping on charges and making the debt even bigger and then taking it to court..then again I don't intend paying them a penny..i should take store by the fact that if Sainsbury's thought they had a properly executed CCA they would have taken me to court as there is quite a large outstanding balance...but I will sit tight and keep fingers crossed they don't suddenly come up with the proper documentation

[debt4get]

let em heap it as high as they like...it would be interesting to say the least for them to explain to a dj why they have doubled trebled the debt..without resorting to court action months/years ago...stick to your guns they will go away with tail between their legs once you make it absolutely clear they aint getting another penny without the correct paperwork

[Duffers Mum]

Fingers crossed it won't get that far...they couldn't produce even an application form for my Goldfish account and haven't updated my credit file for getting on 18 months on that one, but as they will at least have an application form for the Sainsbury's one I am not expecting to be able to get shot of them quite so quickly...unfortunately

[debt4get]

its really simple though..no cca=no agreement..end of..whether they have an application form or not...it is not nor will it ever be an agreement..its an application form..

[Duffers Mum]

I know...but they seem to forget bless them....they think we are all as dopey as they are...I'll report back when I hear from them with the first of what will no doubt be many threatograms

[tastethediff]

At what stage is it advisable to send a CCA request, when you are getting threatening letters or should you wait intil you receive a claim form from the courts?

[Deb T]

I'd send it now, the earlier the better. Send it recorded, don't sign with your usual signature and keep a record of the postage details

[debt4get]

no always send it before they can initiate court action the sooner they realise you have some idea of how the system works the better it is...if they know you are likely to contest a ccj they are less likely to issue one