Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

[BeauBrummie]

I just cant get my head around this at all.These forums still mentioning unenforcible agreements.What if in my case there are not ANY agreements in place.We have been going around in circles since last July,three companies havent provided anything other than terms and conditions.They state thats all they have to provide and have said they can not produce the agreements.If they did have them I think we would have gone to court by now,but still we get hounded by solicitors letters and debt collectors.FOS are now investigating but I presume it will come to nothing.IF there are no signed agreements than these companies are operating my dads accounts illegally as they shouldnt be sharing data,shouldnt be adding defaults,and shouldnt be using anyone 3rd party.

 

IS this correct? could anyone with professional knowledge please advise me?thanks in advance.:???:

 

Not a professional opinion but from my experience the position is as follows.

 

If the agreement is uneforceable then all that it means is that a Court is not given powers under s127 of the CCA.

 

The debt will still exist.

 

As the debt exists the OC or any Company/DCA that it may have sold the account to are allowed to report the status of the account to the CRA's - although a default is only supposed to be registered once - in practice you may get more than one default for one account. The way to stop this would be to have the agreement declared "unenforceable" in court.

 

The OC or DCA will attempt to collect the outstanding debt but with much less venom - especially if they know that the agreement is uneforceable. This is no longer considered as enforcement ref McGuffick- v- RBS.

 

You may get some relief from the constant hounding by offering small percentage offers to settle

 

 

Beau

[Old Cogger]

Hi Mike . Do you just want the application form part of it uploaded or all the pages .If its the latter i will get back to you after i copy them to the laptop.

Regards

 

Lightningd

 

 

Hi Lightning, copy of the said CCA headed Signature at the top also other copies of rates if any if would do not mind, usually 3 pieces if copy from them.

[lightningd]

I just cant get my head around this at all.These forums still mentioning unenforcible agreements.What if in my case there are not ANY agreements in place.We have been going around in circles since last July,three companies havent provided anything other than terms and conditions.They state thats all they have to provide and have said they can not produce the agreements.If they did have them I think we would have gone to court by now,but still we get hounded by solicitors letters and debt collectors.FOS are now investigating but I presume it will come to nothing.IF there are no signed agreements than these companies are operating my dads accounts illegally as they shouldnt be sharing data,shouldnt be adding defaults,and shouldnt be using anyone 3rd party.

 

IS this correct? could anyone with professional knowledge please advise me?thanks in advance.:???:

They should have a cca signed & dated by you. If not how can they prove the alleged debt exists. Also you need to see a statement of accounts to prove how much you owe. No contract no alleged debt. They can say you owe more money than you do.

 

Regards

Lightningd

[vint1954]

I just cant get my head around this at all.These forums still mentioning unenforcible agreements.What if in my case there are not ANY agreements in place.We have been going around in circles since last July,three companies havent provided anything other than terms and conditions.They state thats all they have to provide and have said they can not produce the agreements.If they did have them I think we would have gone to court by now,but still we get hounded by solicitors letters and debt collectors.FOS are now investigating but I presume it will come to nothing.IF there are no signed agreements than these companies are operating my dads accounts illegally as they shouldnt be sharing data,shouldnt be adding defaults,and shouldnt be using anyone 3rd party.

 

IS this correct? could anyone with professional knowledge please advise me?thanks in advance.:???:

If they do not have a signed agreement, then they are sunk.

 

They will however, still continue to chase for the debt. After 6 years it will become statute barred.

 

Theoretically, if they do not have your permission to share data, then they should not do so, but they will, until you challenge that, but it will be a long fight usually ending up in court.

[diddydicky]

if they have stated in writing that they do not have the original agreement- then that is the end of it (as far as legally enforcing the agreement is concerned)

 

however- you still OWE them the debt (assuming there are no counter claims for unlawful charges, interest ppi etc)

 

there is nothing stopping them from chasing you for payment- they just cant legally enforce the debt

 

IMO the best way to deal with this is along these lines (to any debt collector that contacts you)

 

dear Sirs

 

Re your reference XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Your client has acknowledged that they do not have a properly signed and/or legally enforceable credit agreement.

 

until such time as your client provides me with a true copy of a properly executed and/or legally enforceable credit agreement , together with copies of any other documents referred to within that agreement AND copies of any amended or varied agreements and in a form that is Easily legible, i will not communicate further in this matter

 

In short, your client must either now "Put up" or "shut up"

 

all further correspondence of a circular nature will be filed unanswered

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

XXX

[dmp newbie]

Hi Im a newbie so hope this is in correct place!. Unfortunately I have recently set the ball rolling to set up a DMP with CCCS, which so far so good! One interesting thing that has occurred is that HSBC (one of my creditors )wrote a very strange letter asking for my signature as it wasnt on their file? I rang them to ask what they meant and she first of all said it wasnt on my file, then changed story to say it didnt agree and would I go to any HSBC Bank, quote my credit card number and give them a new signature? She also insinuated that the DMP agreement was reliant on this happening but I got their agreement next day so this was also untrue. I have had this credit card for over 20 years and have never defaulted (even now is UTD but reduced DMP payments will obviously make a difference) so would appreciate any advice as to what this all means?

[foolishgirl]

IMO they want to 'recreate' an agreement with a copy & paste signature dmp. Almost postive proof they don't have an agreement.

Don't go anywhere near an HSBC branch with your signature & don't sign anything - not even a letter to them!! Print or use a digital signature.

 

Have you ever applied for a copy of your agreement under S78? May produce an interesting result

[dmp newbie]

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I have already signed the DMP agreement which they have although this is on CCCS letterhead. I have never applied for copy of anything - what does "agreement under S78" actually do? I really am not in a position at the moment to upset them as I really need to keep them happy so that they will agree to the DMP. Would it actually be worth me doing this?:?

[foolishgirl]

You are entitled at any time to apply for a copy of your agreement under S78 of the CCA1974. It costs £1.00. You would need to send a PO (not a cheque), letter of request (no signature-see previous post) & send by Rec. Del. They have 12+2 days to produce it.

The template is here:

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

When you have received it, start your own thread, post it up (minus your personal details) & CAGers will tell you whether they think it is enforceable in law. If it is not enforceable, you choose how to take it from there depending on your circumstances eg. as to whether you continue to pay them but be aware that if you stop payments they may take you to court & you would have to prove that the agreement was not enforceable.

However even if you continue with debt management payments they may still take you to court at some point in the future but you may want to leave that bridge until it breaks instead of taking an axe to it at this time.

 

A simple S78 request should not rock the DMP status but you may prefer to leave it until you have your plan agreed.

[willy2006]

thanks to beaubrummie,diddydicky,vint1954,and lightningd.This is exactly the missing information i have been looking for to push things to another level.They have all stated they cant find the original agreements.When i used to do car finance there were correct protocol to adhere to and if you didnt sign someone up correctly the agreement was null and void,thats why we had to have a credit licence.Why do these people think they are any different?

I will now use the letter from diddydicky see if that works thanks again i just needed a different angle of things.;)

[lightningd]

Hi Mike latest development is cap1 sent a scanned copy of standard agreement not signed or dated and printed on the back of their letter together with pages of t & cs. They say this is the documentation i asked for and intend to pursue debt. We both know thats not true and i am just waiting of a reply to a letter i sent them previously before i reply back to their latest joke.

Catch you later,

Lightningd

[Old Cogger]

Hi Mike latest development is cap1 sent a scanned copy of standard agreement not signed or dated and printed on the back of their letter together with pages of t & cs. They say this is the documentation i asked for and intend to pursue debt. We both know thats not true and i am just waiting of a reply to a letter i sent them previously before i reply back to their latest joke.

Catch you later,

Lightningd

 

 

Hi lightining, usual stuff from them, await the reply to your letter, keep us informed o.k.

[alina_2010]

The Ombudsman said that I can check the legality of the contract with Lloyds Bank only in the court. However National debt line advised me to check it with solicitor company.

I wonder if somebody has ever checked the legality with solicitor before going to court?

[foolishgirl]

Hi alina

Which contract? Can you start a new thread on your specific problem stating all the details & actions to date? (minus any personal info of course) Suggest you post in the Lloyds forum where you might get more help than on this long thread here.

Lloyds Bank - The Consumer Forums

[alina_2010]

Hi alina

Which contract? Can you start a new thread on your specific problem stating all the details & actions to date? (minus any personal info of course) Suggest you post in the Lloyds forum where you might get more help than on this long thread here.

Lloyds Bank - The Consumer Forums

 

 

Thank you.

It is a credit agreement between my husband and Lloyds bank dated 2003, which looks like unenforceable as there is no signature under Term and Condition.

So we searched for advice and looked in the internet where there are lots of companies, which promised to check the credit agreement and give certificate, if they found the agreement is unenforceable. It will be cost up to £300. But we aren’t sure if it is worth.

[foolishgirl]

where there are lots of companies, which promised to check the credit agreement and give certificate, if they found the agreement is unenforceable. It will be cost up to £300. But we aren’t sure if it is worth.

 

:eek: It most definitely is not worth it!!

 

Start your own thread in the Lloyds forum, post up a copy of the agreement you have (minus personal details) & put a link to it on this thread so it can easily be followed by CAGers.

[alina_2010]

:eek: It most definitely is not worth it!!

 

Start your own thread in the Lloyds forum, post up a copy of the agreement you have (minus personal details) & put a link to it on this thread so it can easily be followed by CAGers.

 

Thanks for advice. I’ll post it as soon as I receive all document back from Ombudsman.

[foolishgirl]

Thanks for advice. I’ll post it as soon as I receive all document back from Ombudsman.

 

Why has the ombudsman got your agreement??

[callumsgran]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place but ive been away for a while and not sure where to post it.

Ive rung my catalogue today (GU) to complain about the £12 charge for a missed payment, which occurs because my hubby gets paid 6 days after they want their money

They won't change the payment date as we requested because they say it's set in stone but as it's a new account and we've only made two payments are they being unreasonable?

Unless we can pay further upfront we're going to get this charge every month

[foolishgirl]

They won't change the payment date as we requested because they say it's set in stone

 

Sounds like a lazy customer service oppo's fob off to me. Ask to speak to a supervisor or put it in writing.

[callumsgran]

Thanks FG

[diddydicky]

I have been asked this:-

 

Hi Diddy

I know it seems to be a commonly accepted argument that without an original CCA there is no legal enforcement, do you have any statute to confirm this?

 

if only, if only

 

the architects of the consumer credit act created confusion when none ought to haev existed by stating that " the original SHOULD" be produced in court

 

IF ONLY "should" would have been written as "shall" all our troubles would be over!!

[Mozz1]

so does it make any difference?

[diddydicky]

do bears sh*t in the woods?

[car2403]

I have been asked this:-

 

Hi Diddy

I know it seems to be a commonly accepted argument that without an original CCA there is no legal enforcement, do you have any statute to confirm this?

 

if only, if only

 

the architects of the consumer credit act created confusion when none ought to haev existed by stating that " the original SHOULD" be produced in court

 

IF ONLY "should" would have been written as "shall" all our troubles would be over!!

 

That's CPR, rather than the CCA, in'nit?