A Double Check on Some Employment Law Stuff Please

[Sidewinder]

No she hasn't seen a solicitor. Although she could no doubt get a free initial consultation, she has been worried about the ongoing cost after reading that legal costs are not recoverable from the other party, and for employment law cases can quickly escalate to thousands of pounds, neither can she get legal aid funding. She has no savings and is trying to get extra hours at her second job to supplement what she has now lost from her main job.

 

There seems to be no angle from which to make a viable discrimination case. The employees are all female - the only way that sex discrimination could be alleged is if she was sacked for refusing to do something which a male employee wasn't expected to do, or if she was being treated in any way differently to a male colleague. Unfortunately there are none.

[Guest weegirl]

Why are all the staff female though? The way I view this that it speaks volumes in itself. Workplaces these days are rarely all remale, with the exception of the likes of the Womens Refuges that can legally refuse to employ men.

 

I didn't think I had an angle either until I seen a good solicitor. I was amazed at the information he gave me, it would be worth a shot for her to talk to someone.

[bed32]

I don't think you need to worry about the solicitor yet.

 

It appears that the MD has taken advice and that the person she will be meeting will be acting as the agent of the company rather than an independent arbitrator. As such this is the appeal section of the internal process rather than any escalation beyond that.

 

This is likely to be a very unpleasant meeting - I think it is unlikely that she will get much chance to respond to any of the points, however false, and probably would not be listened to even if she did. However what she should get is some written evidence against the MD, it would be great if she could come away with a some written, signed statement that is demonstrably false.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks for the input. I have suggested that she must attend the appeal and go prepared with comprehensive notes, responding with "that is not true" or "no that is not what I said, I said this" and remain as calm as possible. She is entitled to copies of the statements made in the company's defence, and she has notes which she made at, and immediately after the original disciplinary hearing. She may even take a dictaphone if I can persuade her and particularly if she cannot find the best possible person to accompany her.

 

As I see it this is just a part of the process, and must be completed in order to move forwards, irrespective of the outcome.

[Surfer01]

On no account should she back down and she should not see the consulatant unaccommpanied by a rep. She neeeds to mention to the rep representing her about the false statements. This guy is digging his own grave and if the false statements come to light, he would end up getting a severe fine plus if he had to fire any other staff, they could take him to the cleaners.

[robert_harper_2000]

Subscribing

Hope he gets what's coming

[Sidewinder]

Not looking good this evening as she has been to CAB (who told her that she can be accompanied by anybody, even somebody from outside work) and has now had a falling out with her best mate (the Supervisor) over why she has signed a witness statement which she knew to be false.

 

Unless something changes quickly this won't even get to the appeal hearing let alone any further. Her notification of the hearing stated that she must inform the company tomorrow that the date of next Thursday is acceptable

[Guest Gertie100]

Whilst we all appreciate that this person is obviously completely ignorant of the law, and feels he can treat his employees any which way he likes...unless you have the backing of other employees it will always be his word against hers...

I don't mean to be cycnical or pessimistic but I have worked in companies like this before. Completely private company, run by the person who owns it, bullying tactics, making employees feel like he is doing them a favour by paying them (usually a pittance) each month.

Ultimately in the world of the big boys, with unions, good procedures, a good name in the industry, there is always a chance that you can take them on and win - or at least walk away with a shred of dignity.

 

However in a case like this? He has probably threatened all his staff with the sack if they don't sign the false statements, all women (as said before why is that??), possibly struggling financially (sounds like a generalisation, but I hope you know what I mean!), they will be protecting themselves as any of us would.

I'm not saying don't fight - after all what has she got to lose? (Again we back to the dignity thing)

 

Sorry to say it, but she's probably better off out of it as I was...

[Surfer01]

Is it not possible for you to accompany her? Although you cannot answer thir questions directly, you can use delaying tactics. Every time they ask her a question, she refers to you which she is perfectly entitled to do. You can then advise "no comment", "need to take it into consideration" etc that way giving no definite answer but stay within the boundaries of offers if you can understand what i mean.

What they are trying to do is avoid it going to a tribunal which they know they will lose. Has she advised her friend that in the event her friend admits that she had to sign the statement under duress, her friend will then have a job there for life as there is no ways the boss could fire her friend without risking another tribunal as her friend could then claim harrasment due to being truthful etc.

She can go online and join the GMB at Home or alternatively contact their offices at 020 8397 8881 and explain what has happen and ask for advice.

I repeat on no account should she go in front of these people without someone else as they will rip her to shreds as it will be two against one and their word against hers.

Although I am no banana on employment law, what her former boss has done is totally out of order as he never followed procedure and is now trying to cover up by usoing this employment consultant.

As an aside, when i lived in South Africa every time I read about strikes in Britain and because I did not know any better, I used to think what a bunch of a***holes till I came here to work in 1993. Your employment conditions were something out of the middle ages. The first place I worked in, in winter the temperature barely got abve 10 degrees centigrade. Also the way staff were treated was beyond belief. I then realised that a lot of people were going on strike for very genuine reasons and as a result I joined the GMB and have taken on my present company twice and on both occasions won and got what was rightfully ours and it was not compensation. Got back pay, withheld bonuses and leave increased. I probably would not have achieved this without the help of a union and my present company is one of the better companies to work for in the area.

[Dispirited]

Have a look at the Greater Manchester Employment Rights Service.

 

They have downloadable factsheets for Unfair Dismissal, etc. Their

telephone advise is second to none but you have to live in the area to qualify.

Keep in constant touch with ACAS, let them guide you through every step.

 

 

Greater Manchester Pay & Employment Rights Advice Service -> Advice Factsheets -> Your Rights at Work ->

 

There is also a section on employment legislation

 

Greater Manchester Pay & Employment Rights Advice Service -> Research -> Employment Legislation ->

[Surfer01]

It is really heartening to see so many people care about someone that is the victim of bad employment practices. I think many of us have been down this route and feel strongly for the victim and would like to see justice done

Considering the number of employment issues raised on this site, I would not be surprised if the mods opened an employment forum. how about it mods? Perhaps then we can get some union reps to offer some broad advice.

[robbond55]

Nothing more to add but good luck and I am sure that I speak for all of us here but all the best and...Go Get 'Em!!!