Bought a car priavtely but advert lied, do I have any legal rights?

[BenScoobert]

Thing is following his "not refunding" email, I instructed the LPG installer to start sorting it out and making it roadworthy.

At this point I dont want a refund, I want him to pay for the repairs.

Do I have to offer him the chance to refund?

[jmuggali]

Not wanting to stir it up, but you have far more faith in your TS than I do. Can you prove he is a trader and how many cars has he sold, and not sold through his account for friends or family (do eBay prohibit this?). Many years ago I used to buy and sell from auction and would limit myself to 6 cars a year and I would always register them with the DVLA , but if he isn’t registering them how can you/TS prove he has been trading and selling them on?

Sorry for all the questions and I hope you get a satisfying outcome as sadly this happens all too often with private sales.

[BenScoobert]

I have his ebay account which shows 10 cars. I believe if I state he is a trader it is his responsibility to prove he isn't in his defense. The reg no. are on the advert so tracable.

[jmuggali]

I have his ebay account which shows 10 cars. I believe if I state he is a trader it is his responsibility to prove he isn't in his defense. The reg no. are on the advert so tracable.

 

Why is it his responsibility to prove he isnt, and to whom? were the 10 cars sold in the same year? also the reg no's would be tracable to previous owners, but if he hasn’t registered them, just allowed people to sell through his eBay account then this would be of little use.

Not wishing to be a trouble maker but I’m very interested as I always wondered what if something was wrong with one of my cars I sold, thankfully I was always truthful and received no come back, but I don’t know everything about cars so could have easily missed points. I hope the TS will do a thorough job on him as I think you’re in the right.

[Zamzara]

Thing is following his "not refunding" email, I instructed the LPG installer to start sorting it out and making it roadworthy.

At this point I dont want a refund, I want him to pay for the repairs.

Do I have to offer him the chance to refund?

 

I would wait and give him longer to refund.

[BenScoobert]

It shows 10 cars in 3 months.

 

I would like to give him longer, but I bought this car as my inlaws will be over from Thailand on Friday, we will do about 2000 miles over the following week and I need something to take them in.

So I'm afraid I have to get it repaired rather than let him refund.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My, what a lot of 'Lacoste' and 'Versace' clothes the seller has sold, and at such bargain prices. I suspect TS wil be as interested in these as anything else.

[BenScoobert]

Yeah told me they were good fakes so that will get mentioned too.

[BenScoobert]

I decided to keep a diary

Here it is:

23/06/07 First asked questions about car.

24/06/07 Viewed and agreed to buy @ £3000 left paypal deposit, seller withdrew auction.

25/06/07 Informed us he was away for a long weekend, agreed for him to deliver car Tuesday 26/06/07 and I pay cash.

26/06/07 Vehicle delivered, withdrew cash and paid balance.

27/06/07 Insured car and it broke down on first drive, stalls when running on gas, runs rich on petrol, won't tickover properly, taken to sunside for inspection.

28/06/07 Sunside informed us it is not multipoint LPG, it is singlepoint LPG and is a faulty system also. Left for further investigation.

29/06/07 Collected car, Sunside resets onboard computer and suggests I run it for the weekend on petrol then fetch it back Monday for diagnosis again. Informed seller of problem, no response.

02/07/07 Returned car to Sunside. Car does 10.1 MPG, should be 20.

03/07/07 Sunside informed us of malfunctioning Lambda sensors and air intake temperature sensor. Therefore it is running rich on petrol, hence high fuel consumption. LPG system is running lean and will only operate at very low throttle, under one third.

04/07/07 Vehicle left with sunside, I ask for a full inspection as I get suspicious.

07/07/07 Following full inspection. Sunside inform us the vehicle is not roadworthy. Faults include, rear brake disks and pads are bare, metal to metal. Front brakes are dangerously low. Gearbox is loose and is moving around when accellerating. Lambda sensor and air intake sensors malfunctioning. LPG system is singlepoint and unusable.

09/07/07 07:48 Informed seller of situation and request refund.

08:35 Seller responds and refuses refund.

08:45 I instruct Sunside to rectify all faults, to make roadworthy and convert LPG system to multipoint. My intention is to claim from seller costs incurred.

12:48 Seller asks how much costs are incurred so far.

13:59 I informed seller I had already instructed Sunside to start work and it was now underway.

15:02 Seller responds, stating "Then in that case ben after checking with trading standards you havent a legal leg to stand on, i wont be refunding any money and the vehicle is definatly yours Mark"

18:30 I spoke to trading standards and explained situation. They suggest sending a letter as well as the emails, then to call them after a response or lack of response.

10/07/07 Letter sent recorded delivery to seller.

[JonCris]

Why is it his responsibility to prove he isnt, and to whom? were the 10 cars sold in the same year? It doesn't matter 10 cars, even in 2 -3 years would indicate to the taxman that he is a trader also the reg no's would be tracable to previous owners, but if he hasn’t registered them, just allowed people to sell through his eBay account then this would be of little use. This is a common [problem] well known to the taxman so if he does this he will still be considered a trader & liable for vat on his profit

 

Not wishing to be a trouble maker but I’m very interested as I always wondered what if something was wrong with one of my cars I sold, thankfully I was always truthful and received no come back, but I don’t know everything about cars so could have easily missed points Sorry chum then you shouldn't have been selling them. As a trader a court expects you to have what is termed as special knowledge & you would have been held liable if they had been faulty or not as described. Even private one off sellers are now subject to the Trades Description Act I hope the TS will do a thorough job on him as I think you’re in the right.

 

See in red above

[jmuggali]

Sorry but 10 cars over 2-3 years would not be classed by either the Inland Rev or DVLA as a trader, a year like this guy then yes pretty sure they will class him as trading. Have you worked out the tax on the price of cars he’s selling? Hardly a big fish at the moment for the tax man to chase. The OP has a far better bet dealing with the TS to get his problem resolved, if he can get them interested in the fake clothes too then that’s all the better .

As for me like I said I’m no expert (I know far more than ordinary Joe about cars, but no expert) I actually contacted my local council many moons ago as my parents were worried about the change of use of their home address, I was assured at the time that unless I sold over 6 a year they would not class me as a trader. All adverts had to be accurate (obviously this one on eBay wasn’t) and were subject to the trades description act back then as well.

[patdavies]

I was assured at the time that unless I sold over 6 a year they would not class me as a trader. All adverts had to be accurate (obviously this one on eBay wasn’t) and were subject to the trades description act back then as well.

I suggest that they (or you) needs to make up their minds.

 

If they have taken a arbitrary number (6 in your case) before you are a trader, then any reference to Trades Description is spurious as it doesn't apply to private sales.

 

So either you are a trader and the Act applies or you are not and it does not.

[jmuggali]

I suggest that they (or you) needs to make up their minds.

 

If they have taken a arbitrary number (6 in your case) before you are a trader, then any reference to Trades Description is spurious as it doesn't apply to private sales.

 

So either you are a trader and the Act applies or you are not and it does not.

 

 

I was referring to the accuracy of the adverts placed, trades description was around back then it isn't a new thing, yes if you’re a trader then the trades’ description act applies. I should have separated the two items more clearly I apologize.

 

The definition of a trader is not as clear as people like to make out selling a couple of cars doesn’t make you a trader. Not that any of this is of any use to the OP as I think it’s fairly clear that the seller is trading.

[JonCris]

I suggest that they (or you) needs to make up their minds.

 

If they have taken a arbitrary number (6 in your case) before you are a trader, then any reference to Trades Description is spurious as it doesn't apply to private sales.

 

So either you are a trader and the Act applies or you are not and it does not.

 

 

patdavies Hi

Oh yes it does & has done for a number of years ever since a house vendor failed to disclose material information which when discovered by the buyer, after completion, affected the property value. They argued that the Act didn't apply to them without success & had to pay substantial compensation

 

& if you need proof here's the advice:

If you're not a trader

 

If you are a genuine 'non-trader' seller, you will be largely outside the controls of consumer law, but there are exceptions. For example, if you describe goods in any way and that description proves to be false, you will be obliged to give a refund.

& you'll find the above here:

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Business/TradingStandards/AdviceToBusiness/AreYouAPrivateSellerOrTrader.htm

 

Also if anyone thinks the tax man won't or is not interested in anyone who sells multiple vehicles, even in single fingers over a number of consecutive years, on the Internet then they don't know how he works.

 

They actually have a computer programme which trawls non-stop through the Internet looking for such sellers & once identified can & are frequently targeted by them for tax evasion & benefit fraud

[Guest ArthurP]

Surely this seller would need to be making a profit for the taxman to act in any case?

 

How can he be swindling the taxman if there is no taxable income?

 

It is not unusual to make a loss. Ask Rover.

[JonCris]

If there is a profit between his purchase price & his selling price the trader must add vat to that portion which is the profit

eg Buys £100 - Sells £200 - Vat on profit of £100 = £17.50

 

Total selling price £217.50. As for the rest he/she must register as a trader

[BenScoobert]

We're wandering off subject. He is a trader, whether he thinks he is or not.

 

I was thinking about my situation. I had to get this car fixed as my inlaws land tomorrow. Will it cause any problems, as now I don't want a refund, I want the repairs paying for.

I did give him the chance by email and he refused. 5 mins after he replied I told the garage to start work.

[Guest weegirl]

Surely this seller would need to be making a profit for the taxman to act in any case?

 

How can he be swindling the taxman if there is no taxable income?

 

It is not unusual to make a loss. Ask Rover.

 

If he hasn't registered with the Revenue as trading, he will get fined, you have 3 months to let them know from the start of your business. It depends on who get the job of investigating - but he will have the Revenue poking around his books which may cause him a lot of hassle.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately in this case) the Revenue tend to make examples out of the smaller businesses as they are easier targets.

 

The big fish that rip off millions have the money to hide behind the doctors reports, creative accountants and solicitors that are econimical with the truth.

[JonCris]

We're wandering off subject. He is a trader, whether he thinks he is or not.

 

I was thinking about my situation. I had to get this car fixed as my inlaws land tomorrow. Will it cause any problems, as now I don't want a refund, I want the repairs paying for.

I did give him the chance by email and he refused. 5 mins after he replied I told the garage to start work.

 

 

Correct Ben Despite what he or others claim he is a trader both in fact & law.

 

Don't forget to keep a record of any & all additional expenditure (phone, letters, time etc:) to add to the final bill for settlement

[BenScoobert]

I got a reply from him, I'm surprised, I thought he'd just ignore it, and for what he's written he may as well have.

 

"Following your letter dated 10th July 2007 and seeking Legal advise. I would like to inform you that under the Sale of Goods Act Private Purchases Private? gimme a break, the responsibility is on the buyer to check that the vehicle is of satisfactory condition therefore any sensors, brakes anything to do with the mechanics of the vehicle are not covered by any sort of warranty.Excluding things that are not obvious to a layman, ie me

As for the LPG conversion, once anyone has modified Modified? Replaced due to being completely unusable the vehicle in any way the buyer accepts the vehicle as it is, the timescale in which I replied to your email dated 9th July 08:34 and me asking what costs were involved 9th July 12:41 doesn't warrant someone fitting a LPG system I instructed garage to start repairs right after he refused, 4 hours later he started to back up and ask what the costs were, at that point it was 4 hours into the repairs, Sensors and brakes thus this leading me to believe this is an insufficient time scale for me to rectify any problem.

I would like to further add that I have received in writing an email you have sent to another buyer making slanderous remarks about me and if this continues I will seek further legal advise and proceed legally."

 

thats it word for word, bad grammar and all, in my opinion he has wasted a stamp and his time. But if any of you want to tear it to bits feel free. I'm now going to bed after driving it around all day following the repairs, and its still not right, still wont tick over and stalls, grrrrrr.

 

Oh and the "slanderous remarks" were an email to someone who won the bidding on one of his other "private sales" and went as follows

"be VERY careful when you collect that van, he sold me a piece of crap

check it and double check it, i believe is selling on the side to avoid offering a warranty on unsellable motors

good luck"

[JonCris]

Ben this guy is a complete & utter Muppet & any meaningful or indeed intelligent discussion is lost on him.

 

I should send a letter stating than unless he makes payment in full within the next 7 days (as you have already mentioned possible legal action you don't have to give him any longer) you will issue proceedings forthwith.

 

Then do it!

[Ecossewarrior]

Just to say good luck! I have been watching this thread and I hope this guy gets what is coming to him. I think he will get a fright when he sees the court letter lol!

[BenScoobert]

Work is yet to complete on the car, the final repairs price is still unknown.

Utter muppet was rather polite i thought, trading standards asked to ring back so that is tomorrows job. I keep y'all posted.

[JonCris]

Ben I do hope your referring to the comment rather than the actual Muppet:rolleyes:

[:Boy:]

I will be interested in the outcome of this. I bought a Ford Galaxy 4x4 last November from an ebay 'seller' (he is actually a dealer).

Had the exhaust looked at in April, to find out the car is not 4x4, it has actually had the wrong gear box fitted and the 4x4 bit is no longer attached! No wonder we are going through so much fuel and tyre wear.

 

I was wondering if I could claim anything back, but it is probably too late now, but I will keep an eye on your case, it will be an interesting outcome.

 

Good luck.