Blair Oliver and Scott/Bank of Scotland ** Compensation awarded by FOS **

[reallymadwoman]

Has anyone, ever, had any sort of sensible response from Blair, Oliver and Scott? By sensible I definitely don't mean a computer generated 'letter' that in no way answers whatever they are replying to.

 

The reason I ask is that I've just been going through my correspondence (which is of course all very neatly filed in bags, boxes, pile under the phone etc) and putting it in a proper file with my letters to them in date order, and I've never received a single letter from them in four years that could in any way be construed as a sensible reply, and I've given them plenty of opportunity.

 

I still have the box in the loft to go through as I will have to call in a very large favour to get my son to find it (it's in the brown cardboard box marked 'letters' or 'post' or something, or I might have forgotten to mark it at all, and there are at least 30 brown cardboard boxes up there) but I would guess I've written to them about 30 times and they haven't replied to letters, complaints or anything else.

 

Do they even exist other than as a letterhead? They don't even answer the phone with 'Blair, Oliver and Scott'. Am I engaged in a battle with something that only exists in a parallel universe?

 

Of course the whole point of the exercise is collecting evidence for when I hit them with everything I can think of on Monday. Did no one ever tell them that upsetting women is a really bad idea? I'm beginning to think of myself as a terrier. I might be smaller than you, but I never, ever let go.

[kennyparkroad]

write to the halifax bank of scotland then. i did, unforunately, it looks like ill have to pay the 5k now.

[reallymadwoman]

Tried that - basically the same result other than they did send one response to a complaint. It was absolute rubbish of course, but they did try. However they never got around to sending a final response, so that one is with the FOS now and they are proving to be not much better.

 

Oh, and they did once tell me I should direct all correspondence to Blair Oliver and Scott as they were dealing with it. That was after I wrote to say I couldn't get a response from Blair etc.

[Monty2007]

write to the halifax bank of scotland then. i did, unforunately, it looks like ill have to pay the 5k now.

 

what are you having to pay them £5 K?

[Mike220359]

Has anyone, ever, had any sort of sensible response from Blair, Oliver and Scott? By sensible I definitely don't mean a computer generated 'letter' that in no way answers whatever they are replying to.

 

The reason I ask is that I've just been going through my correspondence (which is of course all very neatly filed in bags, boxes, pile under the phone etc) and putting it in a proper file with my letters to them in date order, and I've never received a single letter from them in four years that could in any way be construed as a sensible reply, and I've given them plenty of opportunity.

 

I still have the box in the loft to go through as I will have to call in a very large favour to get my son to find it (it's in the brown cardboard box marked 'letters' or 'post' or something, or I might have forgotten to mark it at all, and there are at least 30 brown cardboard boxes up there) but I would guess I've written to them about 30 times and they haven't replied to letters, complaints or anything else.

 

Do they even exist other than as a letterhead? They don't even answer the phone with 'Blair, Oliver and Scott'. Am I engaged in a battle with something that only exists in a parallel universe?

 

Of course the whole point of the exercise is collecting evidence for when I hit them with everything I can think of on Monday. Did no one ever tell them that upsetting women is a really bad idea? I'm beginning to think of myself as a terrier. I might be smaller than you, but I never, ever let go.

 

There is a funny thing with Blair et al, until recently the company records at companies house stated that Blair et al was a dormant company, but I have letters from them going way back, although to be fair I dont know how long they had been dormant for. However, until my success with these organisms I had been paying to them since 2004 on that account and within that timescale it was a dormant company. Another correspondant on this site had actually pointed this out to Companies House, who if I remeber correctly said that they would welcome any information on the matter. Actaully, you've just reminded me I was going to write a letter as well, and will do tonite!

 

The correspondance issue though is very important, if you've got letters offering info and their not dealing with it, when they go to court (which they wont) who is going to look reasonable?!

Mike

[reallymadwoman]

Exactly the point I've been making to the FOS since February. I've been more than reasonable. Looking back through the correspondence today just reminded me just how patient I've been with them. Most unlike me really - usually I have the patience of a three year old in a sweet shop!

Getting back to the point though, you could send them a copy of the phone book and still get exactly the same response - you have not replied to our correspondence so unless you call us immediately we will take further action.

Thinking about it, if, say, I did send them a phone book and forgot to put a stamp on it .... clearly marked 'payment enclosed' of course just to make sure they would want to get their greedy hands on it ...

 

Just joking, Mods. I wouldn't really. Promise.

[Mike220359]

Exactly, at the end of the day (I hate that cliche) these people know what they are doing, know that they havent got a leg to stand upon, so just ignore them.

 

Mike

My god I'm getting philosphical in my old age!

[reallymadwoman]

I've finally got all the correspondence (at least since May last year - the rest is in the loft) in order, and the file is a good 3 inches thick.

 

I was wrong yesterday. I have had a sensible reply from Blair et al - 1 in response to 31 of my letters. In case anyone thinks I've been bullying them, I've received 67, so probably about one a week, which doesn't sound so bad until you look at dates and realise 44 of them have been since February when Citizen's Advice and the FOS told them in no uncertain terms to stop. They did - about 3 weeks ago.

 

I've had another lengthy response from FOS setting out 'the facts' before my complaint goes to an adjudicator. I've had to write a four page letter in reply detailing errors. Anyone would think they don't read the complaint form or any of the evidence supplied! However it seems they have finally managed to get some sort of response from BOS/Blair et al which is hilarious. They have contradicted previously supplied information at least four times and hopefully really shot themselves in their collective feet! I couldn't resist pointing out that my previous complaint also included 'mistakes of fact' which implies it may not be entirely accidental. I wouldn't want to make any unfounded allegations of out and out lying now would I?

 

As expected BOS/Blair et al have stated that all of my 31 letters, including the one they replied to, must have gone missing in the post! Also their staff would never phone early on a Sunday morning, nor would they request personal information from anyone other than the account holder, and if their staff have no trace of phone calls from CAB then obviously no calls were made.

 

The really worrying thing is that FOS seem stuck on the point that I allegedly owe money to BOS, therefore anything they choose to do is a reasonable effort to recover the money. I actually have in writing from them that breaches of the Banking Code, OFT guidelines or Data Protection Act are not their concern! Yes they are! FOS may not be able to take any enforcement action on any of those things, but surely evidence of breaches makes upholding a complaint a fait accompli?

 

In case anyone hadn't noticed I'm truly p***ed off with the FOS and am wondering whether all that effort in drafting yet another letter has been worthwhile or if my time could have been better occupied watching the slugs eat my garden - but that's another rant for another day.

[reallymadwoman]

OK - I've decided to push my luck with Blair et al a little bit (only on the smallest account at the moment).

 

My reasoning for doing this is that I can't live with the uncertainty of them suddenly coming up with an agreement at any moment. I need to know where I stand, and if the letter by some miracle prompts a proper agreement, then I'll just have to live with it - and not push my luck on any of the other accounts!

 

If the letter works, at the very least they should write off the balance of this alleged debt.

 

I'm not posting the letter on here at the moment, but thanks to the many contributors from whom I've pinched bits. I wouldn't have known where to start without you but there are far too many of you to name. Just take it as read that if you've ever posted a letter about non-compliance with a CCA request, I've borrowed some of it.

 

I've also decided to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) the OC just in case I need the information in the future.

[bathgatebuyer]

Good luck with this, RMW. I've had problem with BOS in the past and they are great at sending our computer generated letters, but rubbish at replying to mine with any substance. The only way in which I managed to resolve my problems with them over a Halifax account was by contacting the Chief Execs Office, although even when in communication with them, BOS continued to call me several times everyday.

 

Give them one in the eye from me!

[reallymadwoman]

Thanks for the support.

 

You might be interested in this!

 

Sign up by 31/8/07 to be included in :-

 

Mass complaint about Blair, Oliver and Scott Ltd http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....scott-ltd.html

[patrickq1]

i think rmw that you put in another post about i think it was earlswood ltd or something like that i just read on companies house they are being struck off no accounts have been processed ....hope that helps some because if they are trying to collect on moneis etc might be worth a call to inland revenue if they do actually exist and if they have the right to collect monies ?

[reallymadwoman]

Thanks for that Patrick, very interesting.

 

They haven't actually asked for any money yet, just sent a letter addressed to the occupier asking for my forwarding address, but if they do ...

 

If I knew who had passed them my personal details I think the Information Commissioner would be interested too. Anyone know how I could find out?

 

Can a mod please move these two posts to this thread :- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/111063-earlsford-ltd.html in case the information is useful for somebody else.

[reallymadwoman]

Bump - can the last two posts please be moved. If anyone is looking for information about Earlsford, they might not find it here.

[reallymadwoman]

Hope you're sitting down - I've received an actual, meaningful, response to my last letter from - drum roll please - Bank of Scotland!

 

It's still a fairly standard thank you for your complaint, sorry you're unhappy type of thing and we'll get back to you within 4 weeks, but still they've obviously at least glanced at my letter and selected an appropriate template for their reply. I might frame it.

 

I've written back basically saying take as long as you like but don't be surprised if I stick to my own timetable thank you.

[reallymadwoman]

And the very next day I get a copy of the agreement.

 

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/reallymadwoman/CCA1p2.jpg

 

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/reallymadwoman/CCA1p1.jpg

 

I've done a bit of research myself, and I have the following questions/comments.

 

1. I think the loan was arranged over the phone/by mail, so it's non-cancellable?

 

2. I think the APR on the loan is wrong.

 

3. Should default charges be for specific amounts?

 

4. I believe the 'Preference Account' is/was a type of credit card. I didn't ask for it, it was included with the loan. Is that legal?

 

I've already done an SAR request which should reveal if the required copies were sent to me etc, and also if any charges were put on the account.

 

Any comments about enforceability would be very welcome. I have to wonder why they didn't send the agreement when I originally asked for it. Assuming it is enforceable, I believe they are now no longer in default and can ask for payment again?

 

One final point is that the statement of account doesn't show any payments since Feb, and I know I've made them - at least until they went in to default. Would that alone still keep the account in dispute.

[ncf355]

Hi RMW,

 

if poss, can you get the agreement scanned at a higher resolution?

 

At the moment its not clear enough in those links to be able to give an opinion

 

 

:o

[reallymadwoman]

I'll have a go, but not sure it will help as I needed a magnifying glass to read the originals. I may have to type up the main points.

[reallymadwoman]

I've had to give up trying to increase the resolution as it's crashed the computer twice and the original is a pretty awful copy anyway.

 

Main bits are

Left hand side

Credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

followed by names and addresses

Particulars of Loan

Advance £2000

Amount of credit £2000

Interest £447.28

Total amount payable £2447.28

 

'The total amount payable is payable by consecutive monthly instalments commencing TWO MONTHS from the date of the agreement as follows: one monthly instalment of £0.00 followed by 36 monthly instalments of £67.98'

 

APR 12.9

 

Then there's a Data Protection Act notice, then in a box

 

Notice to Customer

By signing this agreement you acknowledge that

a) if you do not keep up the payments due under the agreement you will become liable to pay any additional costs incurred by us in accordance with Clause 2 of the Terms and Conditions overleaf etc..

 

I've signed and dated 2 days after the bank. The terms and conditions do not specify any amounts for 'additional costs', however there is an admin fee of £25 on the account and several small amounts of 'additional interest'.

 

As I said in my earlier post, the APR quoted is possibly wrong, or something doesn't add up properly. I had to get the number of monthly payments from my credit reference agency report as the number after the 3 has been partially obliterated. It could be a 6 or 8, but the CRA says 38 and I'd made 35 payments when the account went into arrears with just over £200 still outstanding. **** see correction below.

 

There is no cancellation bit, but I don't think the loan part is cancellable anyway.

 

I'll type up the other half, for the credit card, later. If I've missed anything vital let me know and I'll type it out.

 

Thanks.

 

Have just realised that I'd only made 33 payments, and the 38 on the CRA record includes the 2 'free' months, so the APR etc is probably right.

[reallymadwoman]

Right hand side

 

Preference Account

 

This is clearly a separate agreement, but the 'regulated by the CCA' bit is only on the loan side. Names and addresses are repeated.

 

Account Details

 

If there is a debit balance on your Account you must repay to us each month at least 5% of the total debit balance outstanding or £5 whichever is the greater, or the full balance if it is less than £5. In addition you must repay interest which will be calculated on a day to day basis for the month ending with the statement date. We must receive your minimum repayment within 14 days of the statement date.

Your authorised overdraft limit will be determined by us from time to time and notified to you. Your initial overdraft limit will be £2000.

If there is a debit balance on your account, interest will be calculated at 21.62% per annum, APR23.9%. We may vary the rate of interest but will give at least 7 days notice of such variation.

 

The Data Protection Act notice stretches across both halves of the page, then there's 'notice to customer' in a box again.

 

'By signing this agreement you:

a) acknowledge that if you do not keep up the payments due under this agreement you will become liable to pay any additional costs incurred by us in accordance with Clause 8 of the Conditions of Use overleaf;

b) telephone calls may be recorded ...

c) confirm that the information contained in this Application is true and accurate

d) request us to issue you with a Keycard ....'

 

Signed and dated by me on the same date as the loan, but by the bank 4 days after they signed the other bit. Above the signature box it says

 

'To ensure you receive your preference account please sign and date the box below. This offer is only open for a limited period of one month only.'

 

Bearing in mind this is almost exactly 6 years ago and my memory is not good, I'm pretty sure that I applied for the loan and was just given the credit card and may even have been given the impression that it was both or neither. I haven't been sent a statement of account for this bit, so it's still in default anyway, but shouldn't it also have some reference to the CCA in the heading? The 'conditions of use' don't specify any amounts for default charges.

[reallymadwoman]

I'm pretty sure the loan agreement is enforceable. I've written to BOS asking for a 'legible' copy, but probably pushing my luck as it's only a couple of figures that are really difficult to read, plus querying missing payments and the admin charge.

 

I am far more interested the credit card part of the account. Leaving aside the question of whether or not I wanted it (which might be spurious as I didn't have to use the d**n thing), the document is clearly set out as two separate agreements as evidenced by the names and addresses being repeated, and two signature boxes, but there is absolutely no mention of the CCA on that half. Also the 'notice to customer' box refers to an agreement and an application. I'm sure that this document was the first I knew about the credit card part, so is it an application or an agreement, and does it make any difference anyway?

The signature box on the loan side makes the usual comment being a credit agreement regulated by the CCA, but the one on the credit card side doesn't.

[reallymadwoman]

Every time I think I've got everything straight in my head, I seem to find something else to query.

Is this Preference Account actually a bank account rather than a credit card, hence no mention of CCA? Would my firm belief that I had a credit card (and used it as such, but can't remember if it said visa or mastercard or something like that) make any difference?

Sorry for asking more and more questions, but the more I read on this site, the more I am aware of how little I know.

Thanks to anyone who can help.

[ncf355]

I've had to give up trying to increase the resolution as it's crashed the computer twice and the original is a pretty awful copy anyway.

 

Main bits are

Left hand side

Credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

followed by names and addresses

Particulars of Loan

Advance £2000

Amount of credit £2000

Interest £447.28

Total amount payable £2447.28

 

'The total amount payable is payable by consecutive monthly instalments commencing TWO MONTHS from the date of the agreement as follows: one monthly instalment of £0.00 followed by 36 monthly instalments of £67.98'

 

APR 12.9

 

Then there's a Data Protection Act notice, then in a box

 

Notice to Customer

By signing this agreement you acknowledge that

a) if you do not keep up the payments due under the agreement you will become liable to pay any additional costs incurred by us in accordance with Clause 2 of the Terms and Conditions overleaf etc..

 

I've signed and dated 2 days after the bank. The terms and conditions do not specify any amounts for 'additional costs', however there is an admin fee of £25 on the account and several small amounts of 'additional interest'.

 

As I said in my earlier post, the APR quoted is possibly wrong, or something doesn't add up properly. I had to get the number of monthly payments from my credit reference agency report as the number after the 3 has been partially obliterated. It could be a 6 or 8, but the CRA says 38 and I'd made 35 payments when the account went into arrears with just over £200 still outstanding. **** see correction below.

 

There is no cancellation bit, but I don't think the loan part is cancellable anyway.

 

I'll type up the other half, for the credit card, later. If I've missed anything vital let me know and I'll type it out.

 

Thanks.

 

Have just realised that I'd only made 33 payments, and the 38 on the CRA record includes the 2 'free' months, so the APR etc is probably right.

 

 

 

Need someone else to back this up, but on using Dualcalc (APR calculator actually supplied by the OFT on their website) I put in inititial loan of £2000, repayable by 36 months x 67.98 and it tells me the total sum payable is as youve given above, but makes the APR 14.9!!

 

If this is correct they havent got a hope in hell of enforcing it and you are in a very strong position to claim all your payments back (withinterest)

 

To me, this matches the precedent set by Wilson v First County Trust perfectly

 

Nail them! (assuming someone else backs up my findings of course, and my advice given with the usual caveats below!!)

[reallymadwoman]

Best news I've had for ages! I had also used one of those calculator thingies and got the APR to something different, but it got lost in all my other questions.

I'll send the letter I wrote earlier anyway as those missing payments and the admin charge need to be sorted, then fire the big guns when they are. At the very least I think they should refund the difference between the two APRs, so they owe me some money and I might as well make it as much as possible.

[ncf355]

Woah RMW!

 

Dont even START going down the 'at the very least' road

 

If the APR is wrong, they MUST pay you back - you have a house of lords precedent to confirm this

 

I am v busy with a whole loads of my own CCA cases, but if you need assistance feel free to PM me and I will help when and where I can