DCA approach after 5 years.....

[Jason Toulmin]

Hi debtsurvivor,

 

That is the first time I have been told about using a solicitor etc. That seems like a very fine idea and to be quite honest I would rather pay a solicitor than these DCA people (ha, never thought I would ever say that!!)

I did do a little digging myself and at the time that my house was sold prices were very depressed and this was reflected by some of the prices that other houses in the street were sold for. However (and its a big however) lots of other houses in the street were in no where near the condition mine was, ie new carpets, new FULL double glazing including new doors, new combi central heating system, newly decorated etc etc whereas a lot of the other properties were single glazed and to be truthful quite run down. You have given me a great deal of food for thought with this matter, I have thought of questioning the valuations as a minimum through other people's advice etc within this thread.

Thank you for this and once again someones advice has made me feel better.

[Imagination75]

Hi Jason

 

One thing I would say is that I wouldn't be showing on this thread any attempts to raise cash and how successful or otherwise you have been, particularly if as you say a DCA rep is on here.

 

They are likely to start pressurising you as to better ways of selling your assets, and also you may be providing evidence to them or a court that you have not made the best efforts to gain the most value for those you have sold.

 

Fairmile don't seem terribly organized at the moment as it is only this year that they got into Manchester, but please forgive me for saying that your remarks may draw their parent company's attention to this, and they may just get RE-organized in a hurry.

 

I would just re-read the advice on this and the associated threads as to what not to say and when not to say it.

 

It may also be that you have already got past the minimum acceptable settlement figure that they would have envisaged at the start. Have we any ex-DCA people reading this that could confirm if this is likely?

 

All the best

 

Chris

[PriorityOne]

OK... I am speaking from a gut reaction here, so don't take this as gospel. You have to make your own decision at the end of the day...

 

If this was my situation, I would make them a F&F offer based upon the amount you have raised. Give them a set time frame within which to respond... and do not mark it "without prejudice". If they choose to take you to court after this time, then this letter can be produced without any problems...

 

They seem to have huffed and puffed about taking you to court for a while now.... and appear to be using this as a stick to beat you into submission. If they did pursue court action however, a judge would be able to see that you had made very effort to settle the matter amicably, the DCA would be faced with providing a breakdown of all unlawful charges on the account... which would probably invalidate the Notice of Assigment anyway.... as well as possibly being made to disclose the purchase price of this account. I'm assuming that they're well aware of these possibilities, which is why they haven't actually gone down the court route...

 

However, this is your situation and not mine.... so the decisions have to be your own. It's very easy to give advice as an outsider to a situation.... but as an insider, your experience of this will be different. In my experience (once again), legal advice was a complete waste of time. My own results were gained by following gut instinct at all times.

 

By the way, did you CCA them ? If so and they have not complied, then it will strengthen your bargaining position. If this contract does fall under CCA law after all... and CAB seem to think that it does.... I would reduce my F&F offer right down to reflect their non-compliance with a legal request, together with your need for complete closure on the matter.

 

[Jason Toulmin]

Hi Chris and PriorityOne, I hope you are both well.

 

Although I agree Chris that they may point out that I have been selling assets and maybe I could have done it in a more productive manner my argument will be as always, I want to sort this out asap and the DCA is applying the pressure that makes me feel this way so they are in fact the cause of this. The point of my selling assets though I think once again displays my best true efforts to resolve this. One thing is for sure though, they will not pressure me into selling things that I cannot sell, I just won't do it, the same as I wont phone them, those are two facts that will not change. I do not see either of these points as me not being amicable as I feel that I am doing a lot to raise money and that written correspondence is a suitable means of communication.

 

I feel that I probably have gone past the minimum acceptable level for a F+F but I am sure they are going to persist in harassing me for more anyway.

 

Also, I very much see your point about raising cash and advertising the fact but once again I feel this supports my claim that I am doing what I can and that this actually proves that point. My whole point to be honest is that I am showing totally willing and they are being totally obstructive in this matter, which I think makes them look very foolish and would work very much against them in a court. Lets be honest here, these people have not even been asked to substantiate the true value of this claim and my offering them a F+F will actually give them a get out on this. If they refuse then I am going to SAR them and the original lender which would be unfortunate but it would be THEIR FAULT as I am offering an alternative.

The deed of asignment not actually being valid is a very good point in this whole situation PriorityOne, indeed it more than likely isnt valid as I am very sure the property did not get sold for true value plus illegal charges etc etc. I dont mind coughing up something, but for a DCA to be obstructive in this matter is simply taking the p*ss!!

 

Oh, I forgot a point, when I actually spoke to the DCA their rep actually told me that Faitmile had bought LOTS of these from the original lender (maybe over 1000) so the actual cost of my debt if its split equally across the whole quantity bought is probably very low indeed.

 

I didnt CCA them, the CAB told me something different on the phone than in person, I cant CCA but I will SAR if they keep on like this which I think will be productive.

 

Firstly though I am going to take your advice and send them a formal F+F offer and see what they say.

By the way, bit of an unrelated question but why do we not sign any letters to DCAs and should I sign a F+F offer.

 

Thanks again.

 

PS off to see my gran but will be back later, bye for now!!

[firstwithit]

Dont sign because it has been known that some scumbags cut and paste them.

Just print it.

[PriorityOne]

 

Although I agree Chris that they may point out that I have been selling assets and maybe I could have done it in a more productive manner With all due respect, this is none of their business. The only relevant fact is that you have managed to raise an amount of money in order to reach an amicable settlement. How effective you were in selling items in order to raise that money is bowlarks.... so don't dwell on that one any more. my argument will be as always, I want to sort this out asap and the DCA is applying the pressure that makes me feel this way so they are in fact the cause of this. DCAs will always apply pressure... particularly when they are not in a very strong position anyway, have their own agenda and think they stand a good chance of intimidating you into finding huge sums of money in excess of the amount they paid for an account. The point of my selling assets though I think once again displays my best true efforts to resolve this. One thing is for sure though, they will not pressure me into selling things that I cannot sell, I just won't do it, Good. Don't. They might suggest you sell your body... lol the same as I wont phone them, those are two facts that will not change. I do not see either of these points as me not being amicable as I feel that I am doing a lot to raise money and that written correspondence is a suitable means of communication. Written correspondence is the ONLY means of communication ! Never forget that.

 

I feel that I probably have gone past the minimum acceptable level for a F+F but I am sure they are going to persist in harassing me for more anyway. I would offer 10% of what they are asking.... and go from there.

 

Also, I very much see your point about raising cash and advertising the fact but once again I feel this supports my claim that I am doing what I can and that this actually proves that point. It will also show that you are dancing to their tune though... My whole point to be honest is that I am showing totally willing and they are being totally obstructive in this matter, because they think you are dancing to their tune, I suspect which I think makes them look very foolish and would work very much against them in a court. Lets be honest here, these people have not even been asked to substantiate the true value of this claim and my offering them a F+F will actually give them a get out on this. Yes it would. If they refuse then I am going to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them and the original lender which would be unfortunate but it would be THEIR FAULT as I am offering an alternative. You need to mention this point in your F&F letter to them.... that if they were to pursue court action, that you would issue a counterclaim for unlawful charges, including a full explanation of what these charges relate to. The precise wording needs to be worked on....

The deed of asignment not actually being valid is a very good point in this whole situation PriorityOne, indeed it more than likely isnt valid as I am very sure the property did not get sold for true value plus illegal charges etc etc. Unlawful charges would invalidate the Notice of Assignment, so this needs to be mentioned as well. I dont mind coughing up something, but for a DCA to be obstructive in this matter is simply taking the p*ss!!

 

Oh, I forgot a point, when I actually spoke to the DCA their rep actually told me that Faitmile had bought LOTS of these from the original lender (maybe over 1000) Ooooh, bully for them !... lol so the actual cost of my debt if its split equally across the whole quantity bought is probably very low indeed.

 

I didnt CCA them, the CAB told me something different on the phone than in person, I cant CCA but I will S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) if they keep on like this which I think will be productive. Most definitely...

 

Firstly though I am going to take your advice and send them a formal F+F offer and see what they say. Draft it up on here first though....

 

By the way, bit of an unrelated question but why do we not sign any letters to DCAs and should I sign a F+F offer. This is only in relation to CCA requests, as it's been known for DCAs to scan sigs. onto docs., etc. I would sign a F&F offer.... but if you choose to use a different sig., that's ok. The most important point is that it goes off by rec. delivery, so that you know it's been received.

 

Thanks again.

 

PS off to see my gran but will be back later, bye for now!!

 

[patrickq1]

https://www.exasoft.biz/mfwebuser/default.asp

Limitation law and the six year rule

[patrickq1]

might shed more light on the problem hope its of use

patrickq1

[Jason Toulmin]

You know what, you are so right, it is none of their business at all, as long as I manage to raise the funds then that is it, could try selling my body but I dont think they will accept £2......

 

So if I offer 10% and they refuse what do you do, I was tempted to offer an amount I thought they would actually accept as I think (but I could be wrong) that they will laugh at 10%!!

 

I can also see what you mean about dancing to their tune, but (again I could be wrong) it is still a means of proving my best intentions. However, I will stop showing what I can raise, wouldnt be good at poker would I!?

 

I was actually going to write to them first, mentioning SAR etc and then follow up with F+F, maybe you are right, I should send them a letter and include F+F in the letter also. As for charges I was going to use one of the letters that is on this forum for content, ie 3 valuations, illegal charges, interest etc. Oh, and I think mentioning the validity of the DOA is paramount also, so that would be added too.

 

Ok, feeling quite positive now, I will draft a letter, post it on here and see what you think!!!!!!!! Maybe I'll have a vodka too :grin:

[Jason Toulmin]

Ok, here goes with my letter (it also stands as my response to the last letter I received), any suggestion greatly accepted:

 

Dear XXX

Once again your reiteration of your clients right to take proceedings with a view to obtaining a charge over our property and once again mentioning seeking an Order of Court directing the sale of our property serves only to further pressurise, intimidate and cause unnecessary stress to my family, which as I can see is obviously of no concern of yours.

All I want to do is come to an amicable arrangement without having to have a telephone conversation, which is well within my rights. For whatever reason you do not see written correspondence as being an acceptable form of communication within which we can deal with this matter. You even mention telephoning you so we can discuss amicable options in an attempt to avoid legal proceedings, which again is a veiled threat rather than a constructive option. I am not at all comfortable with dealing with you on the telephone especially after receiving your correspondence and have been advised against this. My not being comfortable with having telephone discussions with you is not a sign of me not being amicable or constructive. I could not have made my wishes for an agreement to be made any more clearly than in my last correspondence (dated 5th September), a letter which you “noted” but made no effort whatsoever to actually respond to.

I cannot possibly put it to you strongly enough how much I want this situation to be settled however nothing in the manner or tone of your correspondence has been constructive in any way shape or form. Your first correspondence was nothing short of being totally incorrect and in your second correspondence you simply mention that you have “noted” my correspondence. You have not apologised for your error, you have simply threatened me again.

I would like to offer £2000 as an ex−gratia payment in full and final settlement of the above referenced account including any subsequent third party claim. This is not an acceptance of any liability for the amount claimed. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company, will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that we will be released from any further liability.

Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written agreement to this offer and indication of your desired method of payment.

 

If you choose not to accept this offer then I will have no option but to send a Subject Access Request to both your company and the original lender so that I can substantiate the true level of the total outstanding debt that was owed to the original lender.

Please note that I am without doubt that the level of debt will be incorrect as the property was sold for well below its value as I know when it was sold and for how much it was sold for. I can substantiate this fact and have people willing to sign sworn affidavit to highlight the condition that my property was in when I left it. This being the case the Deed Of Assignment would become invalid as the stated level of debt would be incorrect.

I will also ask for information of the following:

• when did the arrears begin?
  
• when was the last payment made on the account?
  
• when was any Possession Order given?
  
• what valuations were made on the property before the sale?
  
• what costs were involved in maintaining the property during the period between the repossession and the sale?
  
• how was the house marketed?
  
• what costs were involved in selling the property?
  
• has a claim been made against the indemnity insurance and how much was recovered?
  
• how has interest been calculated from the start of the arrears?

Obviously as well as the above were you to pursue court action I would be counterclaiming for all illegal charges and any action that was taken that was not deemed as being appropriate in getting best value for the said property.

If, rather than being threatening with your correspondence, you had responded to the actual contents of my last letter this situation could have been resolved much more quickly and my family and I would not have to be feeling the way we do.

Yours Sincerely,

[Jason Toulmin]

Thanks for your post Patrickq1, the limitation law link is fantastic, scales will be tipped 4 u!!

[tiglet]

Did you see your doc Jason?

 

It sounds like this is causing you too much stress - if you haven't done - DO! If this ever ends up in court and you counterclaim, it's one way to prove the impact it's had on you.

 

Plus, after all you've been through, it's important to live your life happily. I know you want all of this to be over with quickly, but it's very possible that it won't and you should prepare yourself for that. Please remember taht tehre is nothing these people can do to you - you've found the site, you're working through the options available to you and you are now in control.

 

Just wanted to give a little support and say good luck!

[Jason Toulmin]

Thanks Tiglet, really appreciate your support. I havent been the docs yet even though I am soooo up and down over this. I guess I am trying to be a "man" about it, please forgive the macho bullsh*t!! I am still considering the docs though, if this continues on then I will have no choice.

This site does help so much though, so much info an so many helpful people also, makes me feel more confident.

[tiglet]

Don't consider the doctors - go.

 

I've recently found out a friend of mine has been struggling with DCA's. He tried to be a man about it and even his partner did not know how bad it was. I live miles away now so hadn't seen him face to face for a while so didn't know what was going on.

 

Cut a long story short, at the beginning of the summer he tried to cut his wrists. His partner just knew something was wrong and found him in the bathroom and managed to call an ambulance in time. However, he'll have permanent nerve damage.

 

He was obviously in a psychiatric ward for a while after that and had some councelling. His creditors were contacted - the barstewards didn't stop phoning, which obviously upset his partner even more and made her terrified he would do it again, especially as he was starting to do better and they were talking about releasing him. I was staying with my kids for a few weeks to give both of them some support and had the most blazing row with Legal & Trade - I think I may actually have made the woman cry. Didn't know they had it in them

 

Had I known earlier, I would have shown him this site. I didn't. What I did do while I was there was send telephone harrassment letters (including the fact that he was suffering from a mental illness, quoting OFT guidelines) and CCA'd every single one of them. I threatened to go to the media about this story if they didn't back off. Not one to date has come back.

 

His other half opens his mail now and will ask me for advice if anyone does come back. I'll be posting here if I do need help and probably PM-ing all over the place. But, for the moment, it's stopped and he has some peace.

 

He sold all sorts of things to try and get the money but this just added to his stress because whatever he offered did not seem to be enough. He also wanted it over with as quickly as possible - unfortunately, he ended up thinking of a different solution.

 

I haven't posted about this before because it was a bit raw and difficult and I wanted to respect my friends privacy (they have agreed I can post this message on here when I just phoned them). But I thought I needed to now because I don't want anyone to get into that state themselves.

 

So please - go and see your doctor. Stop worrying about what you can afford and how it will end up - it will end up resolved and fine. Keep posting on here and follow the logical steps - they work and make you in control.

 

It takes a much bigger man to admit to their doctor that they might need help than one who struggles on unneccesarily.

[PriorityOne]

Hi Jason,

 

I will cut/paste your letter onto my pc and post up any changes... hopefully by tomorrow evening.

 

[Jason Toulmin]

Tiglet, I dont know what to say, I am so sorry for your friend, that is truly terrible. Please thank them for allowing you to place that very personal information on here. I thank you also, for caring enough to go to the trouble. I have decided by what you have told me and also by the fact that you have seen this happen so close to you that I will see the doc on Wed as its the first day I will be able to get in. The least I can do is speak to him and see what he thinks.

Again, thank you.

 

PriorityOne, I much appreciate your help, to be honest I was wondering if it was a bit full on but I will see what you come up with.

[tiglet]

No problem - you can also PM me anytime you want if you don't want anything on public forum.

 

Tigs xxx

[patrickq1]

Don't consider the doctors - go.

 

I've recently found out a friend of mine has been struggling with DCA's. He tried to be a man about it and even his partner did not know how bad it was. I live miles away now so hadn't seen him face to face for a while so didn't know what was going on.

 

Cut a long story short, at the beginning of the summer he tried to cut his wrists. His partner just knew something was wrong and found him in the bathroom and managed to call an ambulance in time. However, he'll have permanent nerve damage.

 

He was obviously in a psychiatric ward for a while after that and had some councelling. His creditors were contacted - the barstewards didn't stop phoning, which obviously upset his partner even more and made her terrified he would do it again, especially as he was starting to do better and they were talking about releasing him. I was staying with my kids for a few weeks to give both of them some support and had the most blazing row with Legal & Trade - I think I may actually have made the woman cry. Didn't know they had it in them

 

Had I known earlier, I would have shown him this site. I didn't. What I did do while I was there was send telephone harrassment letters (including the fact that he was suffering from a mental illness, quoting OFT guidelines) and CCA'd every single one of them. I threatened to go to the media about this story if they didn't back off. Not one to date has come back.

 

His other half opens his mail now and will ask me for advice if anyone does come back. I'll be posting here if I do need help and probably PM-ing all over the place. But, for the moment, it's stopped and he has some peace.

 

He sold all sorts of things to try and get the money but this just added to his stress because whatever he offered did not seem to be enough. He also wanted it over with as quickly as possible - unfortunately, he ended up thinking of a different solution.

 

I haven't posted about this before because it was a bit raw and difficult and I wanted to respect my friends privacy (they have agreed I can post this message on here when I just phoned them). But I thought I needed to now because I don't want anyone to get into that state themselves.

 

So please - go and see your doctor. Stop worrying about what you can afford and how it will end up - it will end up resolved and fine. Keep posting on here and follow the logical steps - they work and make you in control.

 

It takes a much bigger man to admit to their doctor that they might need help than one who struggles on unneccesarily.

hopefully your freind who tried to cut there wrists is getting better,one thing springs to mind is ,since the event of a mental breakdown he is now covered from any sort of harrassment from dca and finance companies ,ALL IT WILL TAKE IS LETTERS FROM HIS DOCTOR AND HOSPITAL...THE BANKS FINANCE CO AND dca MUST NOT IN ANYWAY INTERFERE WITH HIS RIGHTS TO NOW MUCH NEEDED PRIVACY sorry cant remember all details but will find the parts of the law that should offer protection....patrickq1

[tiglet]

He is getting better now, but for a guy over 6 foot who was so full of life, he seems so beatn down. I know that will change.

 

Yes, I did advise that to his GF who was going to speak to his CPN (he only sees the psychiatrist occassionaly now to check on meds etc). I don't know what the outcome was, but the CCA's seem to have stopped them in their tracks for now - GF will ring me if they get any letters as she has enough to cope with and I'll post if there's anything I don't understand or need help with.

 

Thanks - scales tipped accordingly

[djdave]

Tiglet, please pass on my good wishes to your friend too. I know it might not mean much coming from a stranger on t'internet, but honestly I hope he makes a swift and full recovery.

 

Jason, don't worry about "being a man". No doctor will think any less of you because you're seeking help. No human would. There's nothing remotely unmanly about feeling vunerable. We've all been there.

 

If you don't feel comfortable talking to someone face-to-face try initially ringing the Samaritans for some advice. They'll talk to you in complete confidence, and I'll wager you feel a lot less worried about seeing your GP afterwards.

 

You're getting some excellent practical advice on here, which I'm sure is boosting your confidence. But do not under any circumstances let your physical or mental health suffer because of your situation.

 

[tiglet]

Thanks DJDave - consider wishes passed on.

 

When i joined this forum, it was for my own purposes. Now, i'm determined that these DCA's (and others) will get what's coming to them.

 

Anything I can do to facilitate this and try to help poeple along the way, i intend to do.

[patrickq1]

Did you see your doc Jason?

 

It sounds like this is causing you too much stress - if you haven't done - DO! If this ever ends up in court and you counterclaim, it's one way to prove the impact it's had on you.

 

Plus, after all you've been through, it's important to live your life happily. I know you want all of this to be over with quickly, but it's very possible that it won't and you should prepare yourself for that. Please remember taht tehre is nothing these people can do to you - you've found the site, you're working through the options available to you and you are now in control.

 

Just wanted to give a little support and say good luck!

YES TIG IS CORRECT DO NOT UNDER ANY CONDITIONS LET THIS STRESS YOU OUT,WHEN YOU FEEL EVEN THE LEAST BIT STRESSFUL JUST BACK OFF HAVE A LIE DOWN FOR AN HOUR,BELEIVE ME I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIANCE..HAVE TIME OFF FROM THIS AND BE AS PATIENT AS YOU CAN BE ,OTHERWISE YOU COULD LAND YOURSELF IN HOSPITAL,I WAS ALMOST DEAD AND BURIED WITH BREAKDOWNS HEARTATTACKS,THAT WAS FIGHTIN AGAINST BANKS AND SOLICITORS,WHERE EVERY DIRTY TRICK IN THE BOOK WAS LAID AT MY DOOR,SO TAKE TIME OUT AND ENJOY YOUR LIFE ALL THIS CAN GO AT YOUR OWN EASY GOING PACE,LET OTHERS HAVE THE STRESS

PATRICKQ1

[patrickq1]

Dave Is Correct Sorry Typo

[PriorityOne]

Ok... here we go. Please feel free to comment/edit, etc. I have changed it quite radically and removed any feelings, so to speak.... don't get angry with them. Maintain your strength at all times and stay focussed. Let other people comment on it before you consider sending it (rec. delivery).... even I need reassurance sometimes !.... lol

 

 

Dear xxxxxx

 

Ref xxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/2007.

 

In spite of several written attempts to try and reach an amicable settlement with yourselves, I was disappointed to read of yet more threats to instigate legal proceedings against me, with a view to obtaining a charge on my present home in relation to the above referenced account. I have also noted your threats to apply for the enforced sale of my present home at some point after this charge has been granted; in order to secure payment of a huge amount of money, despite my efforts in a letter dated 05/09/2007; attempting to reach an amicable settlement, which you have “noted”, but not responded to.

 

As you may appreciate, although I am aware that legal proceedings remain an option to you, I would still prefer to reach an amicable settlement of this matter for the sake of myself and my family. However, I also need to be realistic with regard to the amount I can afford to settle with. With this in mind, I am prepared to offer you the sum of £2000 in Full & Final Settlement of this account. This is the maximum amount that I am able to raise; having sold a number of personal possessions in the process of raising it. However, if you do not respond to this offer within a period of 14 days, then I will have to assume that you are unwilling to consider any amicable settlement.

 

If this does prove to be the case after all, please be advised that any legal action that you may instigate will be defended on the basis of unlawful charges being applied to this account before and after it’s sale/assignment to yourselves. These would invalidate both the Notice of Assignment and Deed of Assignment, due to the inclusion of unlawful charges on both legal documents.

 

I would also be requesting a full explanation/breakdown of any charges applied by yourselves since it’s sale/assignment, as well as all documentation that you would be relying on in court to secure payment of an alleged balance; as part of the Pre-Action Protocols. You would also be requested to disclose to the court exactly which type of Assignment took place between yourselves and the original creditor; Equitable or Absolute, produce any relevant documentation in support of either, as well as the purchase price upon acquisition.

 

I remain hopeful that we will be able to reach an amicable settlement of this matter and look forward to your reply in due course. Please be advised however, I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing and any further calls to my home will not be met with a response.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Jason Toulmin]

I just cannot begin to say how much I appreciate everyones support and input in this. I think sometimes maybe I have not thought enough of how these situations can so affect other people but I think what I am reading highlights that it isnt just me feeling like I do. The messages that have been posted recently have actually made me feel stronger and I am honestly starting to feel and think differently now. To be honest I feel a little humbled by people so willing to share their feelings so thank you all, I think you have just given me the "push" I needed to clear my mind on this. I too will continue to place input on this site when my problems are finally resolved, these DCA's etc are so despicable, people need everyones support.

 

Thank you PriorityOne, your letter reads very well indeed, there are a couple of small things to change, more factual than critical. I wont be in till after 9 tonight so will come back on later and make the small changes and see what you think. I am at work at the moment so cant fully analyse it yet. I dont normally come on here during work time but just felt that with everyone being so good I needed to post something.

 

Regards to all, Jason