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    • What do you guys think the chances are for her?   She followed the law, they didnt, then they engage in deception, would the judge take kindly to being lied to by these clowns? If we have a case then we should proceed and not allow these blatant dishonest cheaters to succeed 
    • I have looked at the car park and it is quite clearly marked that it is  pay to park  and advising that there are cameras installed so kind of difficult to dispute that. On the other hand it doesn't appear to state at the entrance what the charge is for breaching their rules. However they do have a load of writing in the two notices under the entrance sign which it would help if you could photograph legible copies of them. Also legible photos of the signs inside the car park as well as legible photos of the payment signs. I say legible because the wording of their signs is very important as to whether they have formed a contract with motorists. For example the entrance sign itself doe not offer a contract because it states the T&Cs are inside the car park. But the the two signs below may change that situation which is why we would like to see them. I have looked at their Notice to Keeper which is pretty close to what it should say apart from one item. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9 [2]a] the PCN should specify the period of parking. It doesn't. It does show the ANPR times but that includes driving from the entrance to the parking spot and then from the parking place to the exit. I know that this is a small car park but the Act is quite clear that the parking period must be specified. That failure means that the keeper is no longer responsible for the charge, only the driver is now liable to pay. Should this ever go to Court , Judges do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person so ECP will have their work cut out deciding who was driving. As long as they do not know, it will be difficult for them to win in Court which is one reason why we advise not to appeal since the appeal can lead to them finding out at times that the driver  and the keeper were the same person. You will get loads of threats from ECP and their sixth rate debt collectors and solicitors. They will also keep quoting ever higher amounts owed. Do not worry, the maximum. they can charge is the amount on the sign. Anything over that is unlawful. You can safely ignore the drivel from the Drips but come back to us should you receive a Letter of Claim. That will be the Snotty letter time.
    • please stop using @username - sends unnecessary alerts to people. everyone that's posted on your thread inc you gets an automatic email alert when someone else posts.  
    • he Fraser group own Robin park in Wigan. The CEO's email  is  [email protected]
    • Yes, it was, but in practice we've found time after time that judges will not rule against PPCs solely on the lack of PP.  They should - but they don't.  We include illegal signage in WSs, but more as a tactic to show the PPC up as spvis rather than in the hope that the judge will act on that one point alone. But sue them for what?  They haven't really done much apart from sending you stupid letters. Breach of GDPR?  It could be argued they knew you had Supremacy of Contact but it's a a long shot. Trespass to your vehicle?  I know someone on the Parking Prankster blog did that but it's one case out of thousands. Surely best to defy them and put the onus on them to sue you.  Make them carry the risk.  And if they finally do - smash them. If you want, I suppose you could have a laugh at the MA's expense.  Tell them about the criminality they have endorsed and give them 24 hours to have your tickets cancelled and have the signs removed - otherwise you will contact the council to start enforcement for breach of planning permission.
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Parking Charge in a Waitrose Car Park


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I've had a scan through some relevant threads on this board and it's clear that it's unlikely these charges are legally enforceable. However, I have a problem in that the car was company registered and I do not wish them to receive a stream of threatening mail (even if it's all bluster). Given these details, what would be the best way to a "quick" resolution?

 

Parked in Waitrose Car Park, which is free, but exceeded the 2 hour limit.

Charge was £40, or £20 if paid in 14 days.

I genuinely did not see any signage, although I have since realised that there was a sign on the store itself - I will return and check if there are others.

The ticket was issued by Britannia Parking.

 

It seems the most reliable defence is to ask them to prove who the driver was - I doubt they have photographic/cctv evidence. However, this means they will be chasing my company. :(

 

Alternatively, I could admit being the driver, but question their proof that I had entered into a contract with the land owner and that the charges are not penalties. To me, this still seems like a substantial defence and it would mean they were less likely to enter into a correspondence with my employer.

 

I have to admit, it is tempting to pay the £20, as this is not a substantial sum for peace of mind, but I'm aware that these companies rely on the "average" victim caving in easily to their demands. I really don't want to take part in that, but I also don't want the embarassment of having a DCA chasing my employer...

 

Any suggestions?

 

Cheers,

 

James

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You could possibly have a word with whoever pays the tickets and tell them not to pay as its an invoice and not a legally enfoceable penalty charge and have a look on this website for reasons why they shouldnt pay.

You have nothing to lose ;)

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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You could possibly have a word with whoever pays the tickets and tell them not to pay as its an invoice and not a legally enfoceable penalty charge and have a look on this website for reasons why they shouldnt pay.

You have nothing to lose ;)

 

Seconded - any alleged contract is with the driver of the vehicle, not the registered keeper. Speak to the Company Secretary and prepare the following for them to reply to any letter which comes their way:-

 

Sir,

 

With regard to your recent letter, reference xxxxxxxxxxxx, kindly note that any alleged agreement to pay your invoice exists between yourselves and the driver of the vehicle, not the registered keeper, which in this case is a company. Kindly direct any future correspondence to the person driving the car on the day in question. Regrettably we are unable to provide you with further details as to whom that might have been.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Should do the trick!

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Seconded - any alleged contract is with the driver of the vehicle, not the registered keeper. Speak to the Company Secretary and prepare the following for them to reply to any letter which comes their way:-

 

Sir,

 

With regard to your recent letter, reference xxxxxxxxxxxx, kindly note that any alleged agreement to pay your invoice exists between yourselves and the driver of the vehicle, not the registered keeper, which in this case is a company. Kindly direct any future correspondence to the person driving the car on the day in question. Regrettably we are unable to provide you with further details as to whom that might have been.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Should do the trick!

 

That's good if the company agrees. If they don't feel comfortable with it, having them name the driver wouldn't be the end of the world either, as the signs are not clear and the charge is a penalty, so still plenty of other reasons not to pay.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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Thanks for the replies, I'm going to see if I can persuade the company to respond initially with the letter above - if they continue to pursue it then I will initiate correspondence of my own. At this stage, I also think it might be worth involving the store manager.

 

My sister works for John Lewis and she did note that the partnership is very customer focussed. I imagine they might feel that further pursuit of this matter may be worth less to them than the loss of a customer...

 

Thanks again,

 

James

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The other thing to factor on is what is the loss to the company by you exceeding their 2 hour limit? As it is a free car park they have not lost any revenue by you parking for longer than you should have. if they go to court they can only claim for the actual damages incurred.............which is zero,zip, nada, zilch, bugger all!!:grin:

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