Latest scam, charging for Bills!

[buzby]

I've just received a new set of T&Cs from BT, hidden behind some news that a few of their 'Options' are becoming cheaper.

 

Of interest was the way they now interpret charges that will be placed on your bill. They promote once more their eco-friendly policy of paper-free billing, but the price quoted for this is the benchmark, if you want a paper bill THIS will be charged additionally at 50p per bill (£6pa if you pay monthly). Then, they have established a new division within BT called 'BT Payments' who process any remittances paid to the telco - and there is a blanket 'Payment Administration Charge' if you pay by any method other than DD. (We've covered this before).

 

It would appear BT are not only expecting us to pay additionally to pay our bills by a method of our own choosing, we're being FORCED to pay to receive the bill that tells us how much we SHOULD pay! The Government sits idly by as we get fleeced right left and centre to pay these additional amounts to know how much our bill is and to pay it.

 

WHEN did the burden of payment processing fall on the consumer and not the supplier? The Republic of Ireland has stopped this nonsense in its tracks, but here in the UK we're expected to roll over and accept it.

 

As this is not a devolved issue, the Scottish Parliament cannot act, so there's nothing the Scots can do. This is the thin end of the wedge, and you can expect other firms to try this on if BT get away with it. You have been warned!

[mnrbig]

What can one do? BT has the upper hand as there is no real alternative.

[2Grumpy]

Ouch!

 

Will they be making a contribution to replace my pc when mine gives up so that I can continue to receive their bills?

 

How long will they remain online for? Hopefully they are not expecting me to print them out if I want to keep them for say 30 years?

[bally35]

And can someone tell me , how is it more ec-frinedly to use electricity and computer to pay bill.

We should all refuse to pay, since they havent sent us a bill, no bill, no payment.

Along the lines of "You will appreciate that I can only determine what I owe if I am given a bill. i

[bally35]

Will they be sending out statements of what you have paid.

I would think that wew are entitled to this in hard copy.

So they think that we allhave access to a PC, (one of the poverty measures if I am not mistaken).

Ah that will be another big comapny thinking we have the same resources as themselves, and penalising the poorest in society.

[goodwill]

buzby

if you think it's a '[problem]' why don't you migrate.

[buzby]

buzby

if you think it's a '[problem]' why don't you migrate.

 

And leave the rest of you to suffer? Do you mean you don't see anything wrong in this? My issue is the principle, and if BT get away with it without comment, we'll have all the rest trying it on too. Bus company's charging us extra to pick up and drop off at congested bus stops, for wear on the steps if we sit upstairs, for not reading the free paper provided....?

[goodwill]

A [problem] is where a punter is misled or induced into following a course of action. And that, is a fact.

The trouble is, as a participant in the [problem], you bore a responsibility to ensure that your

 

buzby if you have been misled or induced into becoming a victim of a [problem] maybe you could report it to Watchdog.

[buzby]

Nice try, but since the matter was made knoen in a letter, it was not pre-existing, but imposed.

 

Still, it's good to see where your priorities lie.

[david.m]

buzby if you have been misled or induced into becoming a victim of a [problem] maybe you could report it to Watchdog.

 

hehehe your so funny, this is CAG not your average sit back and do nothing WatchDog Viewer.

 

so whats it to be to start with...?, Unfair term, Unjust enrichment , Data Protection Act request (nice cheap option this one to get all billing data), or move up to some criminal charge, extortion perhaps?.

 

what else/other options is available as a general thought to help start the ball rolling, have all the main players gone home, ...

 

Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2083

unfair terms in consumer contracts

giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unjust_enrichment

"

Unjust enrichment is a legal term in English law and in several other jurisdictions, denoting a particular type of causative event in which one party is unjustly enriched at the expense of another, and an obligation to make restitution arises, regardless of liability for wrongdoing."

[MARTIN3030]

Well done Raymond some good info as always.

I am not with BT but if I was I would let it build up and then just file a claim for return of it all....with interest and of course if they are anything like Telewest; a wasted costs order too .

Keep up the good work matey !

[goodwill]

hehehe

fairly strange to start with

 

so whats it to be to start with...? or move up to some criminal charge, extortion perhaps?.

I think he said BT not Betty from up the road.

Still, it's good to see where your priorities lie.

no buzby I've probably done as much as most on cag to argue against "scams".

 

Except I believe that scams affect many people and all should be argued with equal fervour. Not just the ones that affect us.

 

Anyway lets talk about the [problem] you have become a victim of.

Did you sign up or were you tricked into agreeing to something.

 

please don't tell me you was conned into entering into a direct debit agreement with BT.

[buzby]

I am not with BT but if I was I would let it build up and then just file a claim for return of it all....with interest and of course if they are anything like Telewest; a wasted costs order too .

Keep up the good work matey !

 

The dual problem I have is I can see me slipping into Victor Meldrew mode as these unctious 'charges' are stuck on as if it was a right, whilst the OFT look on in blank amazement.

 

Imagine the scenario should it come to court - you're being pursued for not paying your bill, yet you LOSE, the fact you didn't pay to receive a bill in the first place is immaterial! It's just unbelieveable.

[david.m]

so goodwill (now theres a contradiction in terms)you advocate that its perfectly fine and lawful to charge for sending out a bill then, yes?.

 

bt in this case, put a new charge on the bill for producing the bill, you challenge the charge, they remove it as you complained.

 

what of all the people that didnt go to the trouble of complaining?even though they know they really should.

 

bt keep that unjust money. how can that not be anything but wrong

and come under your 'I've probably done as much as most on cag to argue against "scams".'

 

funny though, so far all i see is arguing and non-productive coments from you, care to post a URL or two to this claim you make above, or far better yet , actually help someone to fight their corner were its required or is that to hard.

 

or are you here just for fun and games to keep a braincell or two active and alive.

[goodwill]

hehehe

so goodwill (now theres a contradiction in terms)you advocate that its perfectly fine and lawful to charge for sending out a bill then, yes?.

or are you here just for fun and games to keep a braincell or two active and alive.

you have got a serious problem

Buzby are you sure you are a victim of a [problem]?

did you

Ensure you're NOT compromised - not bleat to a firm because they had the ability to make money from your errors. For virus attacks, you do the same - not look for someone easy to blame.

[demon_x_slash]

I, too, would like to see evidence of the goodwill from good'will'. I would not, however, pay 50p per sheet to good'will' for providing his goodwill - as I would consider that 50p per sheet to be part of the acceptable cost of running the goodwill in the first place

[demon_x_slash]

The bill is not an error, however - it is an acceptable running cost to the business and putting this onto the customer would have sparked rioting in the streets 200 years ago...

[bally35]

.

 

"no buzby I've probably done as much as most on cag to argue against "scams".

 

Erm you have posted 44 times , most of which appear to be here!!!!!!!!!

[buzby]

Buzby are you sure you are a victim of a [problem]?

did you

 

The word '[problem]' was being used (as a verb) to describe a distasteful action that BT will impose on consumers from 1st July this year. So nobody is a victim, but we all will be in less than 15 days, unless you don't want a paper bill. and are happy at losing your 'paper free' discount.

[goodwill]

"The word '[problem]' was being used (as a verb) to describe a "distasteful action that BT will impose on consumers"

If I was a BT Shareholder, I'd be first in line to demand that you paid the bill you ran up

I suppose one victims "distasteful action" is another shareholders nice little dividend.

 

Erm you have posted 44 times , most of which appear to be here!!!!!!!!!

"most of which appear to be here!!!!!!!!!" = 4

[demon_x_slash]

There is a very big difference between being chased for a debt that you have incurred through using a service, and a business forcing a new charge onto customers that by rights the business should be absorbing as a running cost.

[goodwill]

There is a very big difference between being chased for a debt that you have incurred through using a service, and a business forcing a new charge onto customers that by rights the business should be absorbing as a running cost

possibly but what's it got to do with buzby' "[problem]" and why mention "debt".

[OrangePrimate]

so goodwill (now theres a contradiction in terms)you advocate that its perfectly fine and lawful to charge for sending out a bill then, yes?.

bt in this case, put a new charge on the bill for producing the bill, you challenge the charge, they remove it as you complained.

 

what of all the people that didnt go to the trouble of complaining?even though they know they really should.

 

bt keep that unjust money. how can that not be anything but wrong

and come under your 'I've probably done as much as most on cag to argue against "scams".'

funny though, so far all i see is arguing and non-productive coments from you, care to post a URL or two to this claim you make above, or far better yet , actually help someone to fight their corner were its required or is that to hard.

or are you here just for fun and games to keep a braincell or two active and alive.

I wouldnt normally get involved in something like this, but feel i must comment. I read (and occasionaly chip in) on posts on the majority of the forum. But have not seen anything quite so unjustified as the attack on the poster here.

 

Now, i am not taking any sides in this debate BUT what i do want to say is, each poster has a right to their opinion, that is the basics of debate, and those opinions should be treated with a certain amount of respect.

 

It shocked me to actually read such a rude, insulting, and extremely unhelpful response quoted above.

And, without sounding like i am getting on my high horse or wanting to invoke a 'who the heck are you to be lecturing us' response, really did expect something different from this forum and am surprised that this hasnt already been commented on.

[david.m]

[/color]

 

I wouldnt normally get involved in something like this, but feel i must comment. I read (and occasionaly chip in) on posts on the majority of the forum. But have not seen anything quite so unjustified as the attack on the poster here.

 

Now, i am not taking any sides in this debate BUT what i do want to say is, each poster has a right to their opinion, that is the basics of debate, and those opinions should be treated with a certain amount of respect.

 

It shocked me to actually read such a rude, insulting, and extremely unhelpful response quoted above.

And, without sounding like i am getting on my high horse or wanting to invoke a 'who the heck are you to be lecturing us' response, really did expect something different from this forum and am surprised that this hasnt already been commented on.

 

 

i respect your view OrangePrimate and thank you for taking the time to post....

 

this forum is a place were a person can ask valid questions of the readers and in return, if they so wish, will receave answers or be asked for clarification if its required to progress...

 

it is not a place to hound the true and trusted helpers such as buzby that have proved themseves over and over to be helpful contributers... and have helped many ,many people for a long time now.

 

debate is all well and good,and has its place, but the core of this place is to help people reach a good and final outcome to their problems for the greater collective good, not waste time playing debating games, there are many other places one can do that, i hope you agree!, and just so its clear.....

 

at no time did i intend offence and am sorry if it was taken.

 

ps.

as a final comment to your post "But have not seen anything quite so unjustified as the attack"

 

it was not an attack, (perhaps you need to live around here to understand)an attack is something many people on the internet in their cosy homes and area's will hopefully never need to understand its true meaning with first hand experience.

[Gino32]

Orangeprimate

I read your post with interest, but oh what a short memory, you are not averse to a little sarcasm yourself.

 

 

Gino32, you are very emotive on this subject and your posts suggest that you are a sole recipient of numerous charged texts on a daily basis

 

When someone gives 'their' opinion to a victims problem they should remember that it could quite easily come back and bite them on the ass, as has happened in this case with Buzby. Hence all the quotes!

 

You are correct in saying that it should not get personal and nasty, but welcome to the real world.

 

'David.m'

With regards to what 'Goodwill' has done? A [problem] victim victim himself, I owe him and his pals. Without their help and advice when I was scammed I would not have been fully refunded and given the know how to take my network provider to Otelo.