DVLA - SORN fine

[buzby]

You should have invited him in for a bite.

 

I'm interested in this 'licenced field agent' aspect. Who 'licenced' him (assuming it is a him). As noted previously, there are freelances out there who can make a decent living on calling on folk to effect payment - their success will be variable, and from what I've seen appear to be based on council estates where poverty is high and travelling minimal for their catchment area. As a 'field agent' no licence is required to call on behalf of a third party company, and all they usually need is a car, a mobile phone and a shortage of hair.

[The GodMother]

well i think it is a bloke he had a male voice with a id card that said he was male he was old a wrinkly at least 50s so i did not ask for confirmation i just started when he demanded to be let in. he gave up and walked away in the end.

[Antigone]

The following is a letter I recently sent to DVLA (using some advice from this forum, so thanks to all contributers!). Today DVLA informed me they will no longer be pursuing me for the £80 fine and have called off the dogs that are the Philips Collection Service. I hope this letter may help others that are in a similar situation, and if you really feel you have done nothing wrong, do not be scared to take on this corrupt agency!

 

 

Dear Sir /Madam,

 

I have now been sent about ten threatening ‘enforcement’ letters from Philips Collection Services. I politely ask that they be stopped, and that no further action be taken as I am absolutely not guilty of any charge that you wish to level against me. I have never actually been informed as to what I am guilty of, so please let me know what I have done wrong. You have not sent me any letter whatsoever that informs me as to the exact nature of my ‘offence.’ I am a law-abiding citizen, have always paid my car tax on time, and would rather you spent the time tracking down those who drive around in untaxed cars.

 

My old car was handed over to Arnold Clark, xxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxx, at the end of February, as part of a trade-in deal to purchase my present car. This fact would be verified by Arnold Clark. All of the required paperwork was filled in by myself and the Arnold Clark salesman, and I duly sent off the necessary paperwork to DVLA Swansea. Nowhere did it say this correspondence had to be sent recorded delivery, and it is not my fault if you claim this correspondence has not reached you. Section 7 of the Interpretation Act, 1978 says: “Unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document…” The Universal Postal Act also states that post becomes the recipients property as soon as it enters the post-box. This applies whether it is sent recorded delivery or not. On instigating a quick search of the Internet, it is obvious that the DVLA is losing a tremendous amount of data and correspondence, and I suggest that you concentrate on improving this situation, to avoid annoying honest citizens. Currently claims could be made against you for being involved in a massive money-making scheme whereby you claim correspondence has been lost in the post, and then fine the innocent person £80! Why should I be held responsible for your inefficiency and disorder? I have always correctly paid any vehicle excise duty due, on any car that I have owned. That is why I deeply resent the fact I am now being hounded for £80. Incidentally, when did you receive the paperwork from Arnold Clark, relating to the sale of my car?

 

 

 

As I understand, the purpose of SORN is to identify vehicle excise duty evaders, and to assist police and the authorities in combating vehicle crime, and you stipulate that you do not intend to persecute honest motorists by your use of the SORN system. In that case, are you inferring that I am a tax evader or criminal? I would like you to specifically answer this question, in your reply.

 

I will not be paying the £80 fine as this would be an admittance of guilt, and as I have said before, I am wholly innocent. If you intend to pursue this matter further then you should know that I will be contesting this every step of the way, and will also be seeking compensation for the time and effort expended on dealing with this unwelcome matter. Already I have had to spend time on the telephone calling your various offices, have had to write a letter to your office in xxxxxx, and have twice had to write e-mails to both Philips and DVLA Swansea.

 

Please also be aware that I deem this letter to be step one in your ‘four step’ complaints process. If I do not hear from you within ten days, then I shall be contacting the Customer Service Manager at Swansea, which is step two. Ultimately, I will be contacting my MP if I do not receive a satisfactory conclusion to this situation.

[Conniff]

and you stipulate that you do not intend to persecute honest motorists by your use of the SORN system. In that case, are you inferring that I am a tax evader or criminal?

 

Exactly the same words I use about 18 months ago (I quoted their paper and the house of commons), and mine was also discontinued.

[postggj]

as i understand it

if you get one of these fines, be it sorn, or what ever from dvla, the norm 80 quid,

you can do a stat declaration at the court, cost you a fiver,

send that to dvla and should be the end of the matter ref the dvla fine

 

now this being a standard automatic dvla fine, no court involved

 

would it be a magistrates or county court you file the stat delaration in

 

this is just for my own knowledge and i have no beef with dvla

[dejiotus]

Will greatly appreciate if members could advise me on what to do.Bought 4 Vehicles for scrap.As all the 4 cars were taxed I successfully applied for refunds on the remaining months left on the Road taxes for the 4 cars.I also inform DVLA on the Road Tax Refund form that the Vehicles were off the road and that the cars were awaiting scrapping.I received 4 penalties for failing to relicense the vehicles or declaring a SORN despite scapping all the 4 vehicles immediately after my initial declaration.(The reason being that I only inform DVLA that the Vehicles were awaiting scapping but I did not inform DVLA when the cars were eventually scrapped).I did not apply for SORN as the Vehicles were already in the scrap yard to be permanently scrapped anyway.All my effors to date to make DVLA rescind the penalties have been fruitless.DVLA is requesting for the amount (320pounds) or else I will be referred to the Debt Recovery Agency.Is there any independent Agency I could take my case to?

[postggj]

hi dejiotus

 

once a member responds to my question above, we will both have the answer to that problem

[postggj]

bump

[Conniff]

Will greatly appreciate if members could advise me on what to do.Bought 4 Vehicles for scrap.As all the 4 cars were taxed I successfully applied for refunds on the remaining months left on the Road taxes for the 4 cars.I also inform DVLA on the Road Tax Refund form that the Vehicles were off the road and that the cars were awaiting scrapping.I received 4 penalties for failing to relicense the vehicles or declaring a SORN despite scapping all the 4 vehicles immediately after my initial declaration.(The reason being that I only inform DVLA that the Vehicles were awaiting scapping but I did not inform DVLA when the cars were eventually scrapped).I did not apply for SORN as the Vehicles were already in the scrap yard to be permanently scrapped anyway.All my effors to date to make DVLA rescind the penalties have been fruitless.DVLA is requesting for the amount (320pounds) or else I will be referred to the Debt Recovery Agency.Is there any independent Agency I could take my case to?

 

As you didn't inform them that the cars had been scrapped then you were liable for tax or sorn, so this looks legit to me.

 

There is 'no' official appeals with the DVLA.

[The GodMother]

what year is the universal postal act and where can i get a copy of it?

[patdavies]

The UPU Act is a universal act (not a UK Act) and can be seen here

 

The important part for this is here

 

Article 5 is the germane article. You will notice that it states that items remain the property of the sender until delivered. Except that Protocol 1 applies and UK is amongst those listed where this does not apply.

 

Article 5

Ownership of postal items. Withdrawal from the post. Alteration or correction of address. Redirection. Return to sender of undeliverable items

1 A postal item shall remain the property of the sender until it is delivered to the rightful owner, except when the item has been seized in pursuance of the legislation of the country of origin or destination and, in case of application of article 15.2.1.1 or 15.3, in accordance with the legislation of the country of transit.

2 The sender of a postal item may have it withdrawn from the post or have its address altered or corrected. The charges and other conditions are laid down in the Regulations.

3 Member countries shall provide for the redirection of postal items, if an addressee has changed his address, and for the return to sender of undeliverable items. The charges and other conditions are laid down in the Regulations.

Protocol Article I

Ownership of postal items. Withdrawal from the post. Alteration or correction of

address

1 The provisions in article 5.1 and 2 shall not apply to Antigua and Barbuda, Bahrain, Barbados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Hongkong, China, Dominica, Egypt, Fiji, Gambia, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Overseas Dependent Territories of the United Kingdom, Grenada, Guyana,

Ireland, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Mauritius, Nauru, New Zealand, Nigeria, Papua New Guinea, Saint Christopher and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Swaziland, Tanzania (United Rep.), Trinidad and

Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu and Zambia.

[buzby]

Afraid I agree with Coniff... you've only really stated your intention to scrap - NOT supply the binding declaration that formally notifies them of scrapping. The fact the scars were 'in a scrap-yard' would be immaterial. Trade scrappers have on line terminals that can bulk update the DVLA's record to prove that the vehicle has been correctly and responsibly disposed of. A non-trade user cannot do this, so it looks as though the extra money you made from cashing in the Road Fund Licences have had a 'Revenge of The Mummy' element to your plans.

 

The Continuous Registration department are nor renowned for their undemanding, and whilst you might manage to negotiate something if you press home your point successfully, I don't see them being ready to waive the fines from multiple non-scrapped vehicles. Interestingly, if you bought them TO scrap, it was your action of changing the RK name to your own to get the refunds that put you in this mess!

[dejiotus]

As you didn't inform them that the cars had been scrapped then you were liable for tax or sorn, so this looks legit to me.

 

There is 'no' official appeals with the DVLA.

I thought the reason for the fine is because of failure to declare SORN or relicence the Vehicles.I could not have declared SORN as there was no plans to keep the cars.DVLA was duly informed that the cars were permanenetly off the road and awaiting scrapping.

[buzby]

You are inventing an option that is not given, or covered within the regulations. You can only scrap, SORN, export or relicence unless there is to be a new RK, and the liability will then transfer from the date of notification. If the cars were 'duly' off the road, then you should have SORN'd them. There's no awaiting/pending scrapping', only when they ARE scrapped can this be claimed.

[dejiotus]

You are inventing an option that is not given, or covered within the regulations. You can only scrap, SORN, export or relicence unless there is to be a new RK, and the liability will then transfer from the date of notification. If the cars were 'duly' off the road, then you should have SORN'd them. There's no awaiting/pending scrapping', only when they ARE scrapped can this be claimed.

 

Many thanks for your brief above.Would have thought that DVLA should have advised me accordingly instead of keeping quiet and waiting until I am liable for a fine.The other problem I have is that DVLA is insisiting on £80 per car.I do not know why DVLA is reluctant to accept a payment of £40 per car since I responded immediately I got the penanlty notice.It took considerable amount of time before a final decision was reached;when obviously the £40 grace had expired.

Edited December 28, 2008 by dejiotus

[Deborah3263]

Hello All!

Glad to see I'm not alone in the DVLA fiasco.

I sorned my husband's classic bike online in September. It has been in our garage in bits for 5 years and has always been faithfully sorned at the PO.

 

Thought I'd do it online to save time. Was very easy - raved about how good their website was. Mid December comes a £40 fine. Apparently they had no record of my doing it online and I should have notified them when I failed to get the confirmation 4 weeks later.

 

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I've got a busy life and when the confirmation failed to arrive I didn't miss it. Sending reminders obviously doesn't earn them revenue.

 

Sent a letter the next day saying that we had done it all 'by the book' and that we shouldn't be liable for the fine. They finally responded and on Friday 8 Jan 2009 we had a letter saying that if we didn't get a payment to them by 9 Jan (the day after and a Saturday) the fine goes up to £80.

 

To my mind this is a shameless moneymaking [problem] designed to hit the honest. They also appear to delay responding to letters in order to double the fines.

 

Basically this is the most untrustworthy organization I've ever had to deal with and will NEVER use their online service again. Thank god I didn't have to do his 4 other classic vehicles at the same time or the fine would have been £200!

[S C O R N]

Join the club!

If you did it on line (SORN), then you should have had a confirmation Email by return - as it says on their site. If you did, then you can print a copy and send it with a copy of the fine notice and tell them where to stick it. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way of extracting proof of filling in their application page from your own computer, as there would be if you sent an ordinary Email.

[Deborah3263]

I am still hopping mad at having to fork out hard earned money to such a 'highwayman' as the DVLA and have been thinking about it all day. It is not an inconsequential sum of money.

I recall thinking at the time of online sorning that they didn't give a reference number in case of a problem as you get with all other online transactions. Obviously designed to prevent any comeback with people being able to prove that it had been done correctly and unfortunately I didn't wait to see if an email was returned as I (foolishly) thought that it was done and dusted as I'd completed each required step of the transaction with no blips.

I know it's my own fault for not checking but you would have thought that the DVLA would have used a bit of common sense (and compassion) and seen that our 5 classic vehicles had been religiously sorned for all the years that the system has been in place and we're obviously not criminals.

And another question - why does it have to be done once a year? Surely once a vehicle has been declared offroad it should stay that way until it is declared 'back on the road'. But then the revenue from their c... ups and those who genuinely forget is lost to them. Also, from a green viewpoint there is a huge paper mountain created with all that unneccessary mail being sent out as a result of annual sorning.

I wonder if there are any action groups out there dealing with this vile organization?

[S C O R N]

If it was to easy, they wouldn't be able to take your money. Shouldn't be necessary at all - see 'Repeal the SORN laws'.

[buzby]

It IS meant to be a money-making enterprise after all, just as well it was for a bike than a car! That said, and overlooking the fact that you didn't notice any acknowledgement email - I do have to say I get my response back within 7 seconds, never longer.

 

If you trawl through other threads here you'll find there is a tactic to use, which is based on the fact you've actually done nothing wrong and are not a criminal either. There is a set response where you assert your position and make a declaration in that your did declare a SORN and were unaware of any requirement for them to contact you (after all, they could just have easily contact you to say they've not got your SORN yet!).

 

This usually leads to a cancellation....

[The GodMother]

see above in this post it was by coniff

[lola407vga]

May be having same problem - letter from Inter Credit for £80

Tried phoning DVLA - manned by a machine! - couldn't even get to talk to anyone, even to verify their status - could be a [problem].

 

2 cars SORNed in 2004 (have PO receipts), scrapped in 2005, moved in 2005 - have not received any further notification of liability. PO forwarded mail from old address, didn't inform DVLA, except for current vehicle, as vehicles scrapped.

 

what info can I get from DVLA - should I check all vehicles - just in case. IF I pay this one would I look like an easy target for other "fines".

 

who do I contact at DVLA - can it be done by email?

[The GodMother]

u can ring the dvla there should be a number for u to ring and a speak to a customer services option.

 

U can SAR the dvla but that will only hold info on u not the cars so thats no good unless u want proof they recieved the notification. What makes it strange for me is it has taken them this long to fine u 3/4 years is a long time.

[The GodMother]

also i would advise the police that they need to put a Stop and check out for these cars. I know u have said they were scrapped but that means nothing now as i have seen it where they have taken the number plates off a car that had been a insurance write off and allegedly scrapped due to really bad accident pieced the numberplate back together and used those.

[Mal Richards]

Hi All new here, but not a new problem by the looks of things.

 

Anyway i've just recieved the letter from DVLA, We didnt recieve ur SORN so tough u still have to pay a fine haha.

 

I have writen on the letter which will be going back in the post to them, you can forget it, if your office is incabale of doing it's work it's your problem.

 

I have an agreement with a storage firm with the date the car was put into storage.