DVLA - SORN fine

[buzby]

Minor correction; CEO = Chief Executive Officer. They probably have many more executives, but not a 'chief' one.

 

As you can see, MP's letters get fast-tracked, and where unfairness is evident, usually swifty get results as someone important is watching them!

 

Keep us posted!

[feyisan]

DVLA FINE ON SORN VEHICLE

My vehicle was SORN as required and was parked in front of my property for over 8 months.

Lately the DVLA sent a £250.00 fine notification claiming the car was parked on public road.

Where I live is a "CLOSE" and how this area suddenly became a public road is unknown.

 

Could someone please advice me on what to do to escape this fine.

[buzby]

A close can be a public road, so I'm not sure how you feel its status has changed. The test is if it is maintained at public expense (ie maintained by the council) and if so, then it remains a public road, whether it is called close, lane, drive, park, crescent, square, oval, circus or whatever.

 

Your next move will be to contact the council to check on the status of the road, if they say it is publically maintained, you'll be stuffed - and will need to pay up. If they say it isn;t, you need them to supply you with a map showing where the public roadway ends, and you can use this as part of your defence submission.

[rickyd]

I would echo buzby's response. As you use the word "close" can I guess you are in Scotland?

 

If so I can add proof that what you may consider to be private property often isn't as we learned in February. We discovered new yellow lines around the inside edge of our close and a call to City Chambers clarified that it wasn't so private as we imagined.

 

The deeds or burdens for your property will tell you for sure whether or not you're liable for its upkeep or if it has been "adopted" by the council. For your sake I hope it's unadopted.

[feyisan]

Quick Question anybody please.

Is it really possible for DVLA to prosecute you basically only on photograph of sorned vehicle claimed to be on public road? Please note that the photograph did not show the location of offence, no date and time as claimed by DVLA. Also the car was not clamped against the usual practice.

[buzby]

The photo can only ever be corroboration to a claim of having the vehicle on a public road, so to achieve a convicton the witness would have to provide the required details, and confirm the picture was taken at that date and time. Clamps are an additional penalty, so the fact you were not is a plus, not a minus!

[feyisan]

Do you think there is any way the witness could prove the allegation beyond reasonable doubt, when there was not even a notice placed on prominent part of the vehichle, before the photograph was taken.

 

Does the above not suggest that the witness or the enforcement agent contradicted "section 3.2 of the DVLA code of practice for private parking enforcement" which requires a notice of the offence to be placed on the vehicle?

How far do you think the witness could go with only black & white photograph of the vehicle, in which the only thing that could be of purpose is the registration mark of the vehicle, if the case should go to court?

[buzby]

It is not up to the witness to #prove' anything. He makes a statement of truth, stating what he witnessed and refers to the photograph taken at the time. By qualifying the date and time plus location, they have prove that the vehicles was in the designated place. If this is deemed to by 'public' for the purposes of SORN, there isn't much else you can do - private driveways are fine, anything else is a crapshoot.

 

I think you misunderstand what private parking enforcement is. As I read this, they are saying the vehicle is on a public road without valid tax, and that is what they are pursuing you for. Nothing whatsoever to do with parking enforcement.

 

The photograph isn't the killer, the witness is.

[bob shaw]

Just for clarification, private roads are only private if they are gated and have been so for at least 3 years.

 

I go to work through an industrial estate full of unadopted 'private' roads but the traffic regs apply to all of them because the public have unfettered through access.

 

Normal traffic regs to do with tax discs, insurance, etc all apply on any road, culdesac, close, etc so long as you don't have to stop at a barrier.

 

Note that this does not apply to parking restrictions & penalties as these *do* pertain to who owns & maintains the road itself. E.g. the council cannot paint yellow lines on the private roads around my industrial estate but the police could arrest me for driving on them without insurance or valid tax.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob.

[Raykay]

The Vehicles Excise & Registration Act only applies to vehicles that are used or kept on public roads, which are roads that are maintained at public expense, (nothing about gates). If the vehicle is on a private road, not maintained at public expense, there is no requirement for it to be licensed, it may be SORN instead (but it must be one or the other).

 

The road Traffic Act 1998 applies to vehicles used on a road or public place, (again nothing about gates) which is a different definition, so the s.143 requirement for insurance may apply on private roads.

[bob shaw]

OK, thanks for that. I didn't realise that the Excise and Police take different views on how a private/public road is defined.

 

It does make sense though. It would be interesting to know if there is a legal ie Road Traffic Act requirement for insurance even on private roads. I imagine that if the road has public right of way, there will be a requirement for both MOT & Insurance.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob.

[Raykay]

The Road Traffic Act 1988 applies to 'a road or other public place' which can include places like supermarket car parks, private roads etc, as well as public rights of way.

[BreadAndButter]

Just to update you all - My MP told them to go jump

 

He politely informed me he would be speaking to them about the 'lack of compassion' and agreed with my comments about the unfair stance I was in.

 

I got an apology from the DVLA, stating they had been contacted by my MP and they were indeed mistaken and there is no outstanding fine against my name.

 

Weeks later I did the same thing to get off a parking ticket due to the badly designed bodge job signs int he car park, seems hes a useful chap the MP.

[crem]

Weeks later I did the same thing to get off a parking ticket due to the badly designed bodge job signs int he car park, seems hes a useful chap the MP.

 

Maybe you could convince him to join CAG and help with lots more of these problems.

[jason cook]

Good morning all, i only signed up to this forum today, so please bare with me, this may be a long one however i will keep it a little shorter then normal as i posted something on another site (free) until l i found this site, and took the opportunity to sign up, so i hope i don't offend if i post a link in here to the post i already made, this will solve you reading 10 pages.

 

Now, i have since passing my driving license and having a vehicle always been on time paying for incurred and tax and mot, until this year where due to lack of work and money i was not able to fulfill my obligations to Road Tax my motorbike, and as i was fully aware that i needed to keep the bike off the road i did this by putting it in my garage and contacted the DVLA by mail, and i could not get the tax, at no time was i avoiding the fact or hiding from it, i 100% sent a letter stating the facts and issues i had and never got a reply back,then in in September i had all ( MOT.This was due to the fact that she was falsely impersonating another company separate from the company she worked for:???:, so i called DVLA in wales and they gave me the number of the office in Leeds.. enforcement office of the DVLA 01132 326909....."ye i know, you would think that the DVLA a government funded and ran organization would have everything in one place":???:

----------------------------------

this is what i wrote:

 

very interesting,i was unable to get tax straight away due to lack of cash, however my motorbike was insured till 17th of august,and new one started 2 days before that,i also had a MOT done on the 4th of June (again lack of funding ),and in the end i got tax on the 15th of September, however i wrote to the DVLA, the address i found on there page,and wrote it in my own handwriting. however that was after the 26th of July, and heard nothing back, thinking all was fine i continued my life, until yesterday morning when ,i received this letter from Inter cred international,by looking at the website they seem to be one hot company to mess with, but from your comments it seems to contradict there webpage.

 

1) The DVLA by law (what i been told) have to state they have in powered a dept collection company that actions will now take place : NOT HAPPENED

2) i have just recently had both my license and my digi-card renewed, so why no comeback or feed back while i was there handing them in???would it not show up or be on the screen??

3)The letter i got has a comment in it stating this :"The DVLA is currently preparing a claim against you"WTH does this mean, get the money before the prepare it???

4) i should pay within 24hrs of getting this letter by calling *02071071227 quoting my ref number (not happening i sent the DVLA a letter,i am also going to go to there office on Monday morning

 

The DVLA are legally held responsible if there is fraud in question and if it is, i work in the film industries and have a few contact,one of witch works on watchdog UK

All vehicle no matter size or type, once you have a full MOT and insurance BOTH are then automatically updated on the DVLA and ANPR (automatic numberplate readers),there is another one but cant remember there name.

 

Also they can easily check if you have a happen of not getting tax on time, and one thing they will see i have always been on time,and done everything in my power besides going to them and sitting on there lap and telling them face to face (i should have done that but to late now).

if need be i will go to court, and fight it, i have to prof,and i did send out a letter * in writing that i was not able to get tax due to lack of funds, and that the bike was off the road and in the garage.

 

*company details from letter:

I.C.I Ltd (inter-credit International Ltd)

2nd Floor,South Point House,321 Chase road,Southgate,London N14-6JT, UK

Tel:02084476799

Fax:02084824455

24hrs line:02071071227

**Pointing something out here.....notice that there tel/fax numbers all start with >0208>>0207

 

So i decided to do my own little check and here goes, typed in the full name of the company, you will notice something interesting i came up with two company, one in BARNET (strange that was mentioned in this thread before) this here:

interesting thing is they are not in south gate,London there office is registered in :

 

GREEN LANE

WALSALL

WS2 7PD

 

So you tell me whats going on, also on the letter they have the symbol of the DVLA and on the back of it it has captions from the DVLA

 

interesting if they are so professional why would they need two different lines one for payment and one for talking???

the info from company house is worth the check i always do to find out if they are legal or not...***NEVER ever allowe them into the property,aggreee to anything and always make everything in writing***:

anyway Monday i am at the DVLA office about all this.

 

(****so you can feel how i felt spending a half of a day on the phone and talking to about a dozen different people some nice some i would not even allowe in to a public area, i then got to this, where i am now on this website where i found others in the same boat****)

 

OK, still with me?? i know its a lot but it makes sense, anyway i did some research and also found that watchdog UK made a program about this a few years ago but i am unable to find it,also stating you wrote to them , you will have a 20% chance of the courts actually backing you as you need evidence to prove you sent a letter no matter what, and vice verse, BUT you still need to be able to prove that you sent a letter, the court will NOT accept your word that you wrote to the DVLA.

 

so now i have a issue as i DID write to them, and they by what i can see now they never got anything, and that i my self was not that clued up about SORN as for me i believed it was when you sold your car (no longer the legal owner) or had scrap it, both of these don't even come close, so where do we or i stand in the fact this is the first time ever it has happened to me??

 

so now i have to wait for the dept collectors to contact me as they can not just turn up as i did get the enforcement office in Leeds to put a hold on the claim, so now i will await the next letter, by the way the company are called INTER-CREDIT INTERNATIONAL LTD i advice that you get some recording device and start it while calling them and once you are talking to someone state your recording,trust me it helps and also if they say you said that or this and was like that or this you can in court state you have recording legally obtained,and like to use it in defense against the allegations made,it will go from a fine court hearing to judge john deed...LOL...however by law you need to state your recording for defense purps, if they hang up its there problem.

 

Also you do not need to open the door to them, they are not allowed legally to step on to your private property or gain entry without your permission unless they have a warrant and the police present

 

Now on another topic, why is the DVLA doing this ,where they exchange foreign drivers driving licenses, without checking if that driver may it be a he or she has a full understanding of the law here the highway code or are aware of it, example in Korea (i have a good friend who is from SEOUL in Korea ) even he told me to get a driving license and pass it you do a few hours training and then they take you to a Off road training area/ground and you are tested there, and not in main stream traffic , so i ask if the government are doing this to us who have to take hours of driving lessons, and then have to sit a hazard perception test and a theory test,and then that dreaded 45-1hour driving test, why are they handing out licenses like sweets?? and i do not intent any offense what so ever here its a example:-D

 

has anyone ever thought of getting everyone together and saying ok, we pay taxis and we make one mistake....what about the DVLA getting information wrong coursing issues for god knows who, what about that, seems its always a one way street in this country, and the sad fact is i served for this country and i am starting to regret that..........anyway i look forward to your reply's.

 

thanks for listening....I mean reading

[Nevieth]

It's not up o us to prove anything, it's up to the plaintiff to prove you didn't do it.

Don't forgot to send them an invoice for all your paperwork as well

.

Hi,

 

New to the forum but not new to the DVLA

 

The answer to should you pay...

 

Well yes as the "lost in the post" will not work even if you have proof of recorded delivery this is not always accepted unless the DVLA have written down what was in your package accurately otherwise you have no proof that you sent your SORN/ Disposal Notiication to the DVLA only that something was sent.

 

The other option, if you wish to take a risk is don't pay.

 

The DVLA are no longer taking people to court over this offence instead are using debt collection services at the moment these are only taking on "clean cases" ie case where the accused has not written in, phoned or made any contact with the DVLA regarding the fine. This is not to say in the furture they will not start picking up these cases as they have 6 years to do so.

 

It's a risk and is it worth it over 40 quid, if it is don't pay, you won't be taken to court it'll be a big guy calling at your door!

 

Hope that helps

 

x

[Conniff]

Why are you answering post that are 6 years old Nevieth, I think they might have sorted it by now

Edited April 10, 2013 by Conniff

[Nevieth]

Why are you answering post that are 6 years old Nevieth, I think they might have sorted it by now

 

Because I recieved a response today and didn't realise it was from a really old thread.

[Conniff]

Ok, will make a new thread for icecoach2020