HDR - v - HSBC

[Castlebest]

High Five Dougal Mate !!!

 

Exactly my thinking when Metropolitan threatened me

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/125577-metropolitan-collection-services-action.html

 

If they try to recover the debt without the legal backing of a judgement against me they are commiting a criminal act and as such should be punished like any cheap criminal.

 

pete

[Dougal16T]

Thanks to all for your thoughts and good wishes.. and a very good evening... THIS WILL MAKE YOU THINK...

 

I was in the Brighton County Court today to make application to have my stay (which was imposed by the Court 'on its own motion')lifted on my case versus Co-Operative Bank plc. The Co-op had already telephoned me and agreed full settlement yesterday!! The Co-op had also written to the Court (and sent me a copy) saying they did not object to the lifting of the stay, and confirmed by telephone to the Court that they would not attend.

The hearing was listed for Circuit Judge Simpkiss:-x - but he allocated it to Deputy District Judge FAWCETT.

I attended, because having spoken to the Listings clerk yesterday he suggested that I should be there in case the Judge wishes to ask anything, and it was possible that 'she' would strike out my application if I did not attend!!

At 2.10 p.m. I went into Court (listed for 2 p.m.), and it went like this:

'Good afternoon Mr XXXXXXXXXX I have your application for the stay to be lifted, please tell me your grounds.'

I said 'This is a case of Credit Card charges and not Bank charges. Credit Card charges have already been dealt with by the FSA. Therefore these charges are not subject to the OFT case.'

She said 'I don't agree. The OFT case is about charges in the Banking world. I am not minded to grant your application.'

I said 'I am not satisfied with your reasoning - can you explain?'

She said 'I have been directed by the Circuit Judge not to lift any stays and I do not want to upset him.'

I said ' I have been before Judge Simpkiss and I know he will not move on the question of lifting stays - even if extreme hardship is shown.'

She said 'You can appeal my decision to the Circuit Judge.' I said 'I will be doing that. Thank you for your time' and then I left.

This was all recorded so could be requested as a typed transcript.

My point is even though I asked for the stay to be lifted and even though the Bank wrote and telephoned the Court to say they did not object either, Madam FAWCETT saw that she did not need to have regard to the agreement of the parties, but imposed her own unusal brand of Justice!

 

Can she do this....??? Answers on a postcard...

 

If she could...why did the Court even bother to list the case and take up time with a hearing when a paper decision could have been issued?

Fortunately I did not pay a fee....!!!

Any comments would be welcome........

The words 'Head', 'Bang' and 'Wall' all come to mind!

 

Basically the Consumer stands as much chance of Justice in any Court battle where the Banking system is involved, in my opinion...

 

However...it is not over yet......

 

Meanwhile back at the ranch...I wish everyone all the best in everything.

Dougal.

[jansus]

oh I love the legal argument of "i dont want to upset the circuit judge!"

 

We will have to remember those words of wisdom and try them in a defence

 

"i would love to pay the credit card charges - but i dont want to upset my husband who controls my finances!"

 

jan:confused:

[Castlebest]

Both parties agree but the Judge disagrees.... that is totally ridiculous and actually shows a very alarming lack of knowledge concerning the facts surrounding what she was supposed to be making a judgment on from your judge.

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

That shows just what pre-judice is operating in our courts system if a Deputy Distict Judge is tied by the instructions of a District Judge who does not know the facts of the case.......... and her ignorance of the Credit Card situation is inexcusable - .

 

And both parties had already agreed - this would make good fodder for the media , would it not , Pete?

[JOSH_IOU]

Democracy at its best. What a great factual thread

 

Power to the people:)

[JOSH_IOU]

Thanks for the laugh Jansus

[Dougal16T]

GOOD MORNING ALL....Very quick update...Co-op settled 2 days after the Court 'hearing'! Basically I told them that passing my refund of charges to anyone else (they had 'sold' the debt) apart from me is an offence under Theft Act 1968 (as amended).

They did not want me to report this to the Police.....

The same tactics worked with GE Money TWICE!

Best wishes to all

Remember it's YOUR money you're after!!!

Dougal

ps: My case with HSBC now with Ombudsman....

[Castlebest]

well done Dougal!!! now for HSBC

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

Nice one Dougal - they picked the wrong one to fool about with! ...

 

btw did you actually appeal the Learned Deputy Judges decision ?(I use the term 'Learned' loosely LOL!)

[jansus]

well done

 

hope the hsbc caseis resolved soon

 

Jan

[Dougal16T]

And it's a very good morning to everyone....no doubt we all await the decision (due in July...?) from the High Court.

 

In the meantime here are some more thoughts on getting your money back.

 

In one case I have been dealing with Allders (Creation Finance) refused to refund charges, but sent the refund to the DCA which had bought the debt! I decided it was time to change tactics:

 

Dishonestly dealing with money which does not legally belong to you is dealt with by way of the Theft act 1968 (as amended), and is buried in the Act, and referred to as a 'Fraudulent Transfer'. A criminal offence for which the perpetrator is liable to arrest as on conviction the sentence is a term of imprisonment not exceeding 14 years.

 

I hear you shouting 'you are talking about a person, but we are dealing with a company'...this is where life gets interesting, because under the law relating to Vicarious Liability, the company are responsible for the actions of their staff (and theoretically vice versa).

 

I wrote to the Company in no uncertain terms and set out the facts that there had been the commission of this offence by their Company, due to the actions of an individual employed by them.

 

No reaction apart from a further refusal to pay up, so it was time to roll out the big guns!

 

I wrote to the Company Director and informed him/her that unless payment was forthcoming in 14 days I would be making a statement to the Police concerning the commission of this offence.

 

48 hours before time was up I telephoned the Company and reminded them what was about to happen and I was called back within 30 minutes, assuring me that a cheque would be sent first class that day. I replied that if it was not received by me within 48 hours I would be making the statement to the Police.

 

The cheque arrived first class recorded delivery the next day.

 

Perhaps we all need to re-think our approach to this problem when debts have been sold to a third party?

 

I sincerely wish you all the best and hope that the decision from the High Court will be in the favour of the FSA.

 

Dougal

(aka Howard)

[Castlebest]

Good morning Dougal, and well done again!! its amazing what can be achieved when you actually analyse what the banks and the DCA's do and relate that to the law, especially if it means the managing director or company chairman is likely to go to jail for the actions of his/her staff .

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

Hi Dougal - you're a holy terror when you get going , aren't you LOL!

 

Well done!

 

from pete:especially if it means the managing director or company chairman is likely to go to jail for the actions of his/her staff

 

Certainly concentrates their minds - and the sphincter muscle pete -Laffin!

[jansus]

nice to see you are still fighting dougal

 

regards

 

jan

[citizenB]

WOW... you have been busy.

 

BTW, did you ever fill out the Income and Expenditure form for HSBC ? x

[Dougal16T]

Hi citizenB

Thanks for the message.... I only completed an income and expenditure form with their Head Office over the telephone in November 2007, on their insistence that they would 'then be able to progress my claim'!!! What a load of rubbish that was...mind you I did not believe them for a minute. I referred the case to the Ombudsman and their Adjudicator recently asked me for 'income and expenditure' and I told him in no uncertain terms that HSBC already have it and they should have provided it to him!!

 

Still waiting, but those who sell on these debts are constantly breaking the law........what shall we do...? You know what I've done....now it's up to you, you have a legally enforceable right to your money, why let someone else take it?

 

I like the thinking that says, the Bank should not be allowed to take your money when they choose, but should account to you for the money they say is due by way of costs on your account, and you then pay them!!

 

Kind regards

 

Dougal

(aka Howard)

[citizenB]

[rdm2006]

are there any updates on this ?

[Castlebest]

Hiya RDM, have a look at Dougal16T's user profile and look at the "view all threads" and "view all posts" sections... Dougal is quite a prolific poster and a very informed Cagger

 

pete

[Dougal16T]

Hiya RDM, have a look at Dougal16T's user profile and look at the "view all threads" and "view all posts" sections... Dougal is quite a prolific poster and a very informed Cagger

 

pete

 

Thanks Pete,

 

I am very flattered by the compliments!

 

As far as the case against HSBC goes I am still in there, as it has taken a decidedly different 'twist'.

 

Best wishes to all

 

Dougal

[Dougal16T]

Morning all,

 

It's been some time since I last had anything to report....but had a hearing last week and waiting now for the Judgement.

 

Did anyone see me on BBC1 at 11 a.m. on the 4th April 2012...in 'My Worst Deal'....it shows how much the Banks are making out of us.......

 

As a side issue, isn't Dougal a well behaved West Highland Terrier......

 

Best wishes all,

 

More news soon I hope!!

Dougal

[freakyleaky]

Hello Dougal. Great to see you.

Fingers crossed for the Judgement. Yes I saw you on tv. You gave a great account of your story. Very moving to see how it still upsets you even now.

Dougal was the star of the show for me though.He's a fiesty little thing.

[rdm2006]

All the best to you, I really hope you beat HSBC.

 

I had a similar problem with them, but on top of that they failed to pay Mortgage Protection for 12 months.

 

Wish I had someone like tom helping me lol.

[caro]

Sorry I missed the programme Dougal.

 

Are you able to update us on you hearing yet?