us v the Abbey for £7,500***WON***

[ohoh4312]

Ok in a nutshell we followed all the procedures, last letter back from Abbey said they needed more time - 8 weeks! - to investigate our "complaint." (Thats after the initial four weeks they always tell you it will take.) We wrote back telling them they had 14 days to pay up or we would go to court (following the template letter, and offering to accept a slightly lower amount, without prejudice.) The 14 days was up yesterday, but we have heard nothing. Is this going to be a tough one, considering the amount involved? Do you think they are going to throw everything they can at us to stop the claim? We are so worried about going to court, that one false move or incomplete paperwork will mean we lose the £250 court fee and any hope of the £7,500, which plus statutory interest is over £9,000. We are going to buy the lawpack and the book on small claims, but any reassurance or guidance from anyone here would really be appreciated.

 

Thanks all from very worried, and probably soon to be, ex-customers of Abbey

[charleyfarley]

Hi ohoh,

 

Join the queue, I've just sent off my court bundle to them and claiming about £8.5K, there was a winner on here last week who accepted £9.1K, so it's not an unusual amount your claiming

[badboy]

be strong im claiming around the same amount ill keep in touch

[ohoh4312]

Thanks for the reassurances - it has helped me calm down a bit, but still dithering!

So do I wait for them to reply or do I just go ahead with court, considering they are outside of the 14 days? Then do I tell them I've started proceedings or not? I've read so much about what to do but find it really scary in practise!

[Guest amethystdragon]

Go ahead with the court proceedings - They won't come back to you - they are hoping you just fade away into the woodwork because you are so frightened about going to court - they are doing the same to all of us - Write your particulars of claim out and post it on here for people to doublecheck - we've all been there and we can help you along the way - I'm a little further on than you - I've just received the defences from Abbey for both the accounts I'm pursuing and I'm now waiting for the AQ forms

 

Good luck and stay strong - My friend has just won nearly £4K today against First Direct because they forgot to submit the defence!!!! - you can do it

 

Oh and don't contact Abbey about starting the court case - save your postage - they will find out soon enough when they get the claim from the court!!!!

[Guest amethystdragon]

Oh and by the way you need to use the N1 procedure for this amount of money not MCOL - Take a look in the library for all the templates

[ohoh4312]

Oh and by the way you need to use the N1 procedure for this amount of money not MCOL - Take a look in the library for all the templates

 

Wow, thanks - did wonder about MCOL because of size of claim, but couldn't find any info on alternate ways till now. Printed off form to work out what to put on it, found exactly what I needed to write from another post, so thank you thank you thank you!

 

Do I have to take the forms to my local court personally to be processed when they are done then? And also, I created a Schedule of Charges initially to send to Abbey showing the 8% interest also, but I didn't put what each charge is for. Do I need to that, and is that Schedule sufficient for the court claim, or do i need to include all the bank statements as well? Sorry for being thick but like everyone I have only one chance to get it right.

 

Last thing (!) - the Schedule I did has the interest calculation as at 11th May, the day I was sending it to Abbey. Do I need to recalculate it all (help, it took me a whole day to do!), to the date of submission to the Court, or will that be done automatically?

 

Seriously appreciate any help.

 

Thanks so much x

[Guest amethystdragon]

Are you not using the spreadsheet from the library for your schedule of charges? - if not why not? it makes life so much easier as you go through the process as you only have to update one field and it automatically calculates the interest for you

 

CAG Spreadsheets

 

The link above should take you to all the templates in the library - The schedule of charges needs to have some sort of description - I just used Unpaid Direct Debit, Unpaid Standing Order, Returned Cheque etc - which appears to be sufficient

 

When you submit your N1 - you need to include the schedule of charges with the interest updated to the date you take it into court - don't include your statements at this point - that goes in your court bundle which is later in the process.

 

I would also put your particulars of claim on a seperate sheet as well as they tend to be longer than the space given on the N1 form - Then on the form itself just put "Particulars of Claim Attached" or something similar

 

Also don't forget - this documentation needs to be in triplicate - One for you, one for the court and one for Abbey - The court seal is put onto all of them and returned to you

 

HTH

 

AD

[ohoh4312]

Thanks AmeythystDragon - now I need to pick your brains a bit more!

 

I am very new to this site, and originally used the calculator from MoneySavingsExpert.com to compile my spreadsheet, but it will be easy to transfer the data from mine to this one.

 

On the post I read re the N1 claim form, it said to leave the "value" box on page 1 blank - is that correct?

 

The Particulars of Claim I cribbed from said post are as follows:

 

1. The Claimant has an account - a/c no xxxx - ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around (date).

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant has debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these Particulars of Claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect ofany breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or relate to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which excercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations (1999), The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, and common law.

5. Accordingly, the Claimant claims:

a) the return of all amounts debited in respect of the afore-mentioned charges in the sum of £xxxx, and any interest charged thereon;

b) court costs;

c) interest pursuant to Section 69 of The County Courts Act, as set out on the attached Schedule of Charges, or at such rate and for such periods as the Court deems just.

 

Is this sufficient/acceptable?

 

Thanks again - I really ought to pay you a commission!

 

Regards

 

Jo

[badboy]

on page 1 it says

VALUE (type nothing her

CHARGES.(total of what they have charged you)

OVERDRAFT INTREST(this is what they have charged you in od charges. iv found most people have left this as is diff to calculate)

INTREST UNDER S69 (this is were you put total of 8% int)

COURT FEE (150.00 if below 5k 250.00 above check court cost)

TOTAL (charges+ od interest+ court fee+8% int)

hope this was what you were after

[ohoh4312]

Thanks badboy - yes I was wondering about leaving "value" box blank. On the N1 form it doesnt ask about overdraft interest, but to be honest it doesnt amount to much and is too difficult for me extract the correct figures, but I am quite happy going after the "Shabbey" for 7.5 k plus statutory interest - total figure £9,500 - that will do!

 

Thanks so much for your help, and good luck to you

 

Jo xxx

[ohoh4312]

Oh my goodness! Have just checked account online, and there are 15 "miscellaneous fee refunds" credited today, totalling a paltry £430. They have given me no notification of this, and seeing as my claim is for £7500, I am pretty damn angry!

 

What should my next course of action be? Should I query it with them, or still go ahead with court claim?

 

Please help - I would have rathered they had done nothing than this!

 

Any help much appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Jo x

[Leecabs]

Hi Jo,

 

I would keep that seperate as you can always claim them after you have sucessfully beaten Abbey the once!

 

You could contact the court and ask about putting in a revised schedule of charges. However this costs money and can confuse and delay your original claim.

 

By all means though give Abbey a call and ask them what they are for!

 

Best wishes

 

Leecabs

[ohoh4312]

Thanks for that Leecabs.

 

But I am still in the process of asembling everything for the court claim - haven't actually filed yet, so do I deduct these charges from the claim? And if I do, I don't even know which ones they are refunding, which makes the interest calculation difficult, if not impossible (I could take them from 2001, say, and they could say they were from 2004), meaning I lose out on the interest for the oldest ones, if you se what I mean.

 

My head is spinning and I really am stuck. I think I will call the Abbey telephone banking and see if I can get some sense out of them. (not hopeful!)

 

In the meantime, if anyone else has had, and resolved, a similar problem I would love to hear about it, so I can stop doing the "headless chicken" thing!

 

Thanks all

 

Jo x

[Leecabs]

Im sorry I got a bit confused didnt realise you meant refunds durr!

 

Sorry was having a blonde moment well I would proceed with your claim with your original schedule of charges!

 

You need to send a rejection letter stating that you can only accept this money as part of your full claim. Read the below section on rejecting offers:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejecting-offers.html

 

Sorry if I confused you, just keep at them!

 

Leecabs:o

[ohoh4312]

Ok, so telephone bankinhg have no idea what these refunds are for - what a surprise!

 

Quote: "there is probably a letter in the post to you regarding them. If not you will have to write to Banking Services and ask for an explanation."

 

Probably a letter in the post? Have to ask for an explanation??!!?

 

I am getting angrier by the minute - these "refunds" constitute just over 5% of the total claim - I call that an insult! And where do they get off just putting it in my account without informing me? I cant accept/reject something I haven't even been officially offered.

 

If I touch this pittance, does that constitute acceptance by default?

 

PLEASE HELP! I feel as though they have me cornered, and I really would appreciate any advice on this.

 

Thanks

 

Jo x

[Leecabs]

Hi again Jo,

 

I would fire off a pre-emptive rejection letter for the total amount of these refunds by special delivery.

 

Not sure if you touch the money whether that is deemed as acceptance, as long as you dont touch until your rejection letter has been recieved by Abbey I think you should be ok.

 

Its annoying but I would imagine you will get a letter from Abbey regarding this by tomorrow or Monday by the latest.

 

Bottom line for now I would leave a minimum of the total amount of refunds (£430) in the account, just until Shabbeys intentions have been made clear.

 

Has anyone else got some advice for Jo regarding this situation please?

 

All the best

 

Leecabs:)

[feater]

Hi OHOH

 

I wouldn't worry about which charges the refunds are relating to. Just take the refunded amount off the total rather than try to cancel out exact charges.

 

Abbey did the same to me and I just thanked them for the Goodwill gesture but explained that this was in NO WAY Full or Final settlement and carried onto MCOL. If you have already started your claim I would just write to the court and ask them to attach an amended sheet of charges to your claim with the explaination that Abbey have credited your account as a Gesture of Goodwill without prior agreement with yourself.

 

Wouldn't amend the actual charges list just stick another line on the bottom to show the credited amount and then on the next line the new amount now being claimed.

 

Hope this helps.

[ohoh4312]

Right, I have just spoken to Josh in the Abbey Complaints Dept., to be told that £430 is a GoGW which they think is a fair amount! £430 out of £7,500? I don't think so!

 

But I kept very calm and just politely asked why I had not been informed they were doing this, and why I could not decline the offer BEFORE the money was put in the bank?

 

Apparently there should be a letter to me about it, but they think it is a "nice way" to do things, oh and by the way, quote "the money is yours now whatever you decide to do!" Whoop dee dooo!

 

"Are you declining this offer then?" Josh asks. (Well what the hell do you think!) "I am afraid so" I politely reply. "OK then, we will have to move your claim onto Stage 2." Put on hold for 5 minutes. "Hi there, ok I have moved you onto Stage 2, and you will hear from us in the next 5 working days."

 

So what now? If I file at court before I have received their "Stage 2" letter, whatever that might be, do I compromise the situation by not allowing them time to write to me, or what?

 

Does anyone know what Stage 2 actually is? He wouldn't go into to details, just said I would have to wait for the letter.

 

Help/Advice/Anything PLEASE!!!!

 

Thanks

 

Jo x

[ohoh4312]

Thanks Leecabs and feater - was writing my latest post while you were replying to me!

 

Cheers for the advice and reassurance.

 

Jo x

[Leecabs]

Have you sent a the Prelim letter and your Letter Before Action (Steps 2 to 4) yet? Ignore there stages and stick to the ones listed in the below step by step link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

Dont forget to get that rejection letter fired off asap.

 

Go get them!

 

Leecabs:D

[ohoh4312]

Yep I have followed all the procedures - last letter on 15th May was LBA, giving them till 29th to cough up or else!

 

Just compiling letter now - will go Special Delivery 3pm this afternoon to be delivered before 1pm tomorrow. Tempted to be rude and tell them where to stick their £430 (!) but of course I won't be

 

Jo x

[ICY]

The stage 2 letter will just be another letter saying they need a further 4 weeks to look into the complaint, just ignore it and carry on as you were

[ohoh4312]

This could almost be funny:

 

Postman was really late today, but when he came there were TWO letters from Abbey.

 

One is dated 4th June, and is from the Banking Specialist Team - standard letter saying their charges are correct etc etc and offering me £480 as a goodwill gesture (this includes £50 of charges for last month where I went £4 over the overdraft, that they have magnanimously cancelled!)

Also says case is closed in essence, unless we respond within the next eight weeks.

 

The other letter is dated 5th June, and is from Complaints Dept., and it says that although it has been 8 weeks since we first contacted Abbey, the investigation is still on-going and they are unable to give a full response just now!

 

Case of right hand/left hand me thinks!

 

Anyway, I have sent a response today by Special Delivery, quoting the two letters and asking them to clarify what exactly is going on.

I also wrote:

 

However, notwithstanding our confusion, we hereby decline this offer as full settlement of our claim, but, as the interest we are entitled to claim if the case goes to court is accruing daily, we are prepared to make a final offer of settlement, namely:

 

"Standard without prejudice paragraph for the original lower figure we offered to accept, less the £480."

 

For the avoidance of doubt, should we not receive £6,375 within 14 days of the date of this letter, we shall commence proceedings through the County Court without further warning.

 

Don't suppose this will provoke any reaction, but hopefully will look good in Court, if it goes that far, that their letters contradict each other, and also that we tried again to settle before court proceedings.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.

 

Jo x

[Leecabs]

You go Jo!

 

Hey least you got a bit back I havent had so much as an offer of £1 let alone £480 yet!

To be honestI hope Abbey just sleep walk through my claim and forget to acknowledge and then forget to defend (Fingers Crossed)

 

Take care

 

Leecabs