us v the Abbey for £7,500***WON***

[ohoh4312]

Thanks Lee, but I was actually hoping you wouldn't say that!

 

April and May 2001 were really bad months for us, so by taking them off the claim it amounts to a whopping £833 that we lose - poo! (Thats NOT including interest!) Whereas April and May this year there's hardly anything.

 

But I am VERY glad I asked that question - after getting this far I would be gutted to lose out because I had screwed up.

 

At least they might be more favourable now that the figure going on the N1, if it goes that far (of course it will!), will actually be lower than we originally asked for.

 

Now my thread title is wrong too!

 

I will amend the spreadsheet, and check it thoroughly again, and again!

 

Thanks again Lee, and will pm you in a bit.

 

Jo xx

[ohoh4312]

Cheers badboy for that - you guys are real stars

 

Jo xx

[deedee1310]

Hi ohoh3412.

 

I have made a claim going back to 1998. My accounts with Abbey are now closed (1 in 2005 and the other in 2002).

 

After various other threads, I realised that there is nothing stopping you from claiming beyond 6 years. They may quote SOLA 1980 (Statute of Limitations Act) but you should use s.32 to defend your claim.

 

Argument against Limitation

 

The Defendant marketed itself, and continues to do so, as a reputable Bank. The Claimant therefore had no reason to believe anything other than that the Bank would comply with all applicable Law.

 

The Defendant repeatedly stated its Terms and Conditions throughout the period which the Claimant has had the Account, including the level of its default charges.

 

On the basis of both these points, the Claimant originally had no reason to believe anything other than that the default charges which are the subject of the claim were lawful.

 

The Claimant continued to believe that the default charges were lawful until the publication of the Office of Fair Trading report (OFT842, April 2006) into Credit Card charges. The report stated that default fees have been set at a significantly higher level than is fair for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999). The OFT stated that its findings were likely to be relevant to bank account charges.

 

The Claimant contends that the period of limitation on the claim is postponed by virtue of concealment or mistake by the Defendant:

• either the Defendant at some point became aware that its default charges were unfair and unlawful and has concealed the fact; or
  
• it did not but the default charges are ruled now as unfair and unlawful in which case the charges would have been a mistake.

The Claimant therefore contends that any period of limitation on any part of the claim is postponed until April 2006 (the date of publication of the OFT report) in line with the Limitation Act 1980, Section 32, subparas (b) and © :

…..where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either :

(a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

(b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or

© the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

 

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.

 

The Claimant therefore respectfully asks the Court to rule on the lawfulness of the Defendant’s charges up to 6 years old. If the Claimant is unsuccessful in that part of the claim, the issue of any period of limitation on the older charges falls away. If the Claimant is successful in that part of the claim, the matter of postponement of the period of limitation on the older charges can be ruled upon.

 

 

This advice was given to me by Mad Nick, see his thread Mad Nick v Abbey ***SETTLED IN FULL***

 

Hope this helps.

 

:D

[ohoh4312]

Wow, thanks DeeDee

 

Thats real complicated legalese(!) but I get the gist of it - just!

 

Really in a quandry now - thinking I would just be better to go for the lower amount, which with 8% interest and costs etc is still just over £9,000, rather than risking it all for the sake of the extra £833 plus interest = £1,240.

 

I have so many doubts in my own ability to get this right anyway, I really don't think I could argue on the Statute of Limitations too!

 

I will ponder this one long and hard - well for a week anyway, before I have to submit N1!

 

Thanks again

 

Jo xx

[deedee1310]

No problem.

 

To be honest, it has been twisting my brain too. However I re-read it before I sent it to you and it actually makes sense now.

 

I had to go back that far else I would have lost over £1000 on the 1st account I am claiming for. It's my money so the cheeky b**gers are not going to be allowed to keep it!

 

I not as far as you yet. I sent my preliminary letter on Monday (deemed served Tuesday), by Special Delivery. They wrote me the standard "fob off" letter that same day, which I received today! I'm delighted!

 

I think you need to go with what you feel the most comfortable with. At the end of the day £9k is still a lot of money (can't believe you've had that much taken off you)!!

 

Anyway, I have subscribed to your thread and will be watching with interest. My thread is here in case you're interested deedee1310 v Abbey

 

Wishing you all the best.

 

deedee

[ohoh4312]

Thanks DeeDee - was up all night thinking about this

 

I have decided to go with ALL the charges - they sent me data going back to the start of 2000, so I am going for it big time! (omg!)

 

Have been reading BankFodders post re the over 6 years argument, and now it makes sense. So I thought if I am going to put myself through all this, I might as well go for as much as possible!

 

The way I understand it, if the SoLA argument is thrown out, I am still eligible to claim for the 6 years charges. Am I right on this please?

 

Thats my only fear (and it's a pretty big fear at that!) - that by being too greedy, I run the risk of losing it all.

 

Thanks

 

Jo xx

[ohoh4312]

Sorry to bump again - but it will be the last time.

 

Was having a major clearout and found a file at the back of the cupboard with all the blooming statements going back to 2001. I was fed up that I had spent a tenner getting all the info, but pleased on the other hand that I had the back-up data to their microfiche lists.

 

Until I decided to add the charges from previous to my original claim, and there werent any?????

 

Then I checked the statements for the months I had done - and there are NO CHARGES STATED anywhere

 

For 2001 to 2003, all it says on the statements is debit/credit interest on the balance, but the microfiche data shows c.£2,500 of charges for that period. I really don't understand it, have checked and checked and checked and none of it makes sense.

 

So I am thinking of just giving up - if by any chance Abbey still have copies of those statements I havent got a cat in hell's chance of getting anything. I know for a fact that we DID pay extortionate amounts in charges over that period, but I havent got concrete proof, just two conflicting sets of documents. It probably doesn't show, but I am so upset and angry by this, mostly at myself. Told you bad luck was my middle name, didn't I?

 

I probably sound like a complete wuss, but to be honest this whole thing is putting so much strain on me already, that I don't think now I could try to see it through, knowing that it could all go horribly wrong and be a complete waste of time.

 

So huge thanks to all who have helped and advised, and I am really sorry to have wasted your time. I wish you all the best of luck, and hope between you, you take Abbey to the cleaners!

 

Godd Luck and Best Regards

 

Jo xx

[fatbulldog]

Hi,

 

They did they same to me my claim is £7500 plus interest. Refunded £800 into my account. I wrote using a template letter on this site to say thanks but would not accept this as final setttlement. I didn't wait for their stage 2 just issued court papers. I really wouldn't wait around for them. If we moved at their speed we would all still be waiting for them to look into our complaint!!!

 

Just to warn you they probably will file their standard defence at the very last moment, just as you think they won't bother! I have just had a directions hearing come through for August! Bearing in mind how clogged up the court system is getting I would advise you to plough on regardless of their stage 2.

 

Good Luck

Angela.

[deedee1310]

Hi ohoh!

 

Are you able to scan in an example of your actual statement and the printout you received from shAbbey (with all personal data removed of course)!

 

Maybe we can look and see what you might be missing.

 

I'd hate to see you give up after coming this far.

 

Dx

[Suzylou]

Can I ask a question please, I have had the usual GOGW, but unfortuantely that was a while back now, in March do i reissue my claim all over again or can I go to getting the court papers ready. I sent the letter to accept the charges refunded 600.00 against a 4500 claim

[deedee1310]

Hi again ohoh.

 

Just read this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/woolwich/79362-lastlaugh-woolwich-help-not.html#post701467

 

In post number 9 by MadCat, he/she stated "I used the list they sent me as the basis of my claim with no problems"

I don't think that you should have any problems proceeding with the printouts they gave you. However if there is a Mod or Sitehelper who can tell us differently, we would be glad to hear from you!

 

[deedee1310]

Sorry it's me again.

 

I'm determined to not let you give up!! Just been doing more reading. Most people have claimed using the printouts or copy statements provided by the banks. They have provided these documents as part of their document bundles.

 

If I were in the same position, I would proceed with the printouts that you already have.

 

Please, please hang in there!!

 

:)

[Leecabs]

Hi Jo,

 

sorry was off work yesterday had the gas man coming round and all that Jazz. I think your brave going ahead with all the statements going back as far as they have sent you! But go for it remember you can always do a 2nd claim for after 6 years if all the legal stuff gets to much.

 

Did you get itemised bank statements as the charges should be shown on the them as it is a transaction from your account!

 

Nearly everyone bases their claims on the statements sent to them by Abbey and the microfiche data. What ever happens Abbey have sent you this information so it must be correct, ignore the old statements as I had some where they didnt put the charges on yet they showed up on the micro-fiche.

 

Try not worry and keep at it you will be fine!

 

Leecabs:)

[ohoh4312]

Hi all - I'm back!

 

Took a few days out to clear my head, and it has definately worked.

 

I was in such a state last week, what with them declining my card amidst other things, that I was panicking and doing everything wrong.

 

Anyway I was looking at the wrong statements :o so that panic is out the window, thank god!

 

As far as the card saga goes, they DID stop it - I got a letter Saturday morning from Abbey Financial Crime Operations asking me to call urgently.

When I called I was told they were investigating "unusual transactions" on my account, so they had stopped my card for my protection!

One of the "unusual" transactions was the Council Tax payment?! (Dont always pay it on time, but do pay it!)

So that is sorted now too, but really p'd off that it took them so long to inform me AFTER they had flagged the card, and also that on two occasions on the phone to Telephone Banking they told me there was nothing wrong .

 

Does anyone think they are messing me about, or is it just another coincidence?

 

Anyway, I am going to go ahead with the Court claim on Friday morning, but other half thinks I should just go for 6 years - "too much hassle" he says - so far his only input has been to sign the Data request form!!!!!

 

But spreadsheet amended and N1 draft done - and I think I've got it all right now!

 

Thanks for all your support, especially Leecabs and deedee, and sorry again for being such a hyperactive dufus!!!!

 

Will check in Friday after I've been to the court (omg!), if not before.

 

Jo xx

[deedee1310]

Yay!! Glad to hear that you're thoughts are more collected! :D

 

As I said before I'm taking on Abbey back to 1998. The Statute of Limitations Act 1980 does not apply because of s.32 (concealment).

 

You are also within your rights to do the same. I've read the Abbey Forum posts and others since I became a member (yes - I am on here everyday now ), so I know that people have had success and I'd love to hear shAbbey argue the toss in court

 

I'm counting down the expiration of my preliminary letter to shAbbey. 7 more days and counting! They sent me the crap "fob off letter" on the sameday that they received my "complaint".

 

Anyway, that's what we are here for - to help and encourage. As I said before, I may well need the support when it gets too much!

 

Hope they settle with you before you need to use form N1, however if they don't, you know we've got your back. :D

[ohoh4312]

Quick question, but an important one!

 

On my spreadsheet I have deducted the GoGW as a line on the bottom - with the date it was refunded. Do I have to add credit interest on it too, ie fill in all columns as the rest?

 

(Sorry tried pasting an excerpt on here messed up the columns and was illegible)

 

 

Or should I show it a different way?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jo xx

[deedee1310]

Hey Jo, sorry couldn't read your last post well. I copied and pasted it into word. Should it read as follow?

 

CLEARED TRANSACTION 30.00 29/03/2007 810.5330.53 CLEARED

TRANSACTION 30.00 29/03/2007 810.5330.53 CLEARED

TRANSACTION 30.00 29/03/2007 810.5330.53 UNPAID DD

CHARGE 35.00 29/03/2007 810.6235.62

MISCELLANEOUS FEE REFUN-430.00 06/06/2007 12-1.14-431.14

Not sure what the numbers mean after the dates in the charge and miscellaneous fee entries.

Let me know if the rest is as it should be.

[ohoh4312]

Oh just edited it again - soz deedee!

The numbers after the date are the days elapsed -ie 81 - the amount of interest - ie 0.62 then the total -ie 35.62.

 

It looked okay when I was writing the post, but came out garbled!

 

Dufus again!

 

Jo xx

[deedee1310]

I'm pretty sure that you don't need to put credit interest on. I have read extensively around the forum and I have not seen this mentioned anywhere. BTW, which spreadsheet are you using?

 

I would regard it as a reversal of some of the charges (albeit a rather big one and leave it where you have added it.

 

 

BTW, you are not a dufus

[ohoh4312]

Aw thanks deedee

 

Using my own one that I had set up prior to coming on here, but it looks very similar to the template one, and I copied the formula across for the 8% calculation and the days elapsed. I have got a copy of the template one and I input some of the info to double-check, and all the calculations are identical, so I am confident that mines ok.

 

Jo xx

[Leecabs]

Hi Jo,

 

good to hear your going ahead with the claim, I wonder if you had put in the N1 claim already would you have had to take off the charges paid back to you once it was in?

Or would it stay the same still stacking up interest on what they put back?

 

All the best

 

Leecabs:)

[ohoh4312]

HELP/ADVICE NEEDED - PLEASE!

 

I tried to pay for a flight home from Gibraltar for other half this morning, and the payment was DECLINED again! Finally sorted it, after ebookers had to get special authorisation from shAbbey - spent 57 minutes on the phone, all for £59.50.

 

Then postie arrives, with a letter from Financial Crime Operations for him (same as one I got, see post64), so now they have stopped his card too!

 

My questions are:

 

Do you think they are playing silly wotsits with us, seeing as the N1 is due to be filed on Friday?

 

If so, do I have any grounds for a complaint, say to the ombudsman, on the basis that they are acting unfairly and denying us access to OUR money?

 

Or would that compromise the situation further?

 

Really really would appreciate any help on this one - I am so mad I could scream!

 

Thanks

 

Jo xx

[ohoh4312]

Sorry to bump, but this is really worrying me, and I really need someone to advise me whether to put in a complaint at all, and if so when to do it ie before or after I file the N1?

 

As a bit of background:

 

My letter from FCO was dated 12th June, and when I called them they were querying 1 transaction on the 11th June and 3 on the 12th June, all of which were internet payments.

 

Other half's letter is dated 15th June, but looking at my records - I keep a record of all transactions on a spreadsheet and compare it to the online statement nearly every day - his most recent transaction (for £5.20!) was on the 8th June, and the 3 before that were 24th, 14th and 3rd MAY! (This tallies exactly with the online statement as at 30 minutes ago).

None of them are internet payments (he wouldn't know how!), and one of them is where he paid cash IN! He has not even attempted to use his card while in Gibraltar, he is using the parachute account; I would possibly understand it if they were looking at an overseas transaction, but they are not.

 

So what the hell are they investigating? This gets fishier by the minute. In all the years we have had this account they have never ever queried a single transaction, so why now?

 

Any thoughts/suggestions, pretty please with a cherry on top?!

 

Thanks

 

Jo xx

[Leecabs]

Hi Jo,

 

it seems strange they have done nothing like this to me, then again they just seem to be ignoring me no offer so on.

 

I would have said had you put the N1 claim in already they may started doing this out of abuse, but seeing how they have not even been issued with your claim yet I cant see why they would.

 

Has anyone else had experince of abuse from Abbey before the N1 claim form????

 

Sorry I cant be of more help as I havent been in this situation as yet touch wood.

 

Can someone help Jo please?

 

Leecabs:(

[noobrider]

Hi Jo, just replying to your request.

 

I'm not totally convinced that there is anything untoward happening from Abbey in conjunction with your claim and the effects of your card being stopped initially appears to be coincidental. Continue with your claim as normal however I would advise contacting Abbey regarding the actions on your account and demand a full explanation. Once you have the evidence in front of you and Abbey have explained their actions then you could potentially see the financial ombudsman but not until they have completed their investigation. I don't believe this will have any bearing on your current claim as we all know Abbeys bank charge team operates almost independently from the rest of Abbey.

 

Hope that helps