Re BankFodder's new wasted costs order template

[Guest bong]

...added to the library and the global announcement today.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/85726-wasted-costs-order.html#post774414

 

would it be too late to do this after the court has been notified that the case has been discontinued due to the out of court settlement?

[Lula]

No, I think that I would just adjust the letter, I suppose it would be ok, afterall, you cant claim until it has been settled. But is this is lieu of claiming costs from some banks solicitors that are paying out costs? and what sort of costs should be claimed

[rockinrodders]

Hi, Would this be a possibility if the claim was entered through moneyclaim, then the defendant 'Acknowledged' but then didn't even bother to defend the claim and thus allowing me to request judgement by default after 28 days?

 

Wasted loads of time and money writing letters, mailing them and on the phone in all.

 

Has anybody else claimed for wasted costs, and how much is a 'reasonable amount'?

 

Cheers

[Mad Nick]

Hi, I can see perfectly well that this has the added bonus of further increasing the pressure on the Banks by making a formal submission to a Judge about the Banks' grubby tactics - and I'm all for that. However, it's only fair that people know that the alternative is simply to include the costs in the pre-Court negotiation with the Bank. Indeed, the Bank will cough up precisely because they don't want you to write to the Judge. Just keen that people have the whole picture. Regards, Mad Nick

 

Rockinrodders : lots of people for whom 30-50hrs @ £9.25/hr seems the norm

[Bicester1]

Hi

 

Very interesting.

 

A question.

 

I am a self employed professional man and I usually charge my time out at £x per hour to clients and can prove that, so do peeps think that the court would agree that I should charge the bank at the same rate in preparing my case? Would that be reasonable, or do I stick to £9.25?

 

Bicester1

[Guest louis wu]

bump

[sohoscribbler]

I'd be interested too, as I charge - and get paid - a lot more than 9.25 an hour, and can prove it. It's late payments that sometimes take me into the red. A common freelancer's problem, alas.

[Bicester1]

I'd be interested too, as I charge - and get paid - a lot more than 9.25 an hour, and can prove it. It's late payments that sometimes take me into the red. A common freelancer's problem, alas.

 

Yup thats the problem!

 

Any thoughts from anyone about costs?

 

Bicester1

[lucid]

I get paid more than £9.25 per hour for my teaching too, but I believe that £9.25 per hour is a reasonable amount for preparing for the court claims. I think that people need to keep their claims for costs realistic, and while it's seeming more common for the banks to pay up the courts aren't always giving them the opportunity. I saw one claimant who sent off a list of costs to the court and the total was a very high amount. The end result was the court struck out the claim for costs. In our costs claim we probably underestimated our time spent on the claims - bearing in mind we were claiming costs for three claims - but we had the total amount paid up by the bank and we were absolutely happy with the £420 we got, and we didn't expect to have it paid to us either.

 

I honestly don't think the court will entertain a claim for costs which consists of a higher hourly rate than £9.25 per hour - but I could be wrong.

 

Good luck. Lucid

 

Lucid

[Bicester1]

Hi

 

Think you might be right I guess its about reasonableness and proportionality!

 

Anyway I am feeling benevolent as just had an offer from NW to settle for charges and 8% before we exchanged bundles!

 

Bicester1

[Guest louis wu]

This is a from the HMCS web site, and deals specifically with the £9.25 issue

 

Litigants in Person

 

38 Where the receiving party is a litigant in person rule 48.6 (Appendix 1) governs the way in which the question of costs should be dealt with. A litigant in person may be allowed a sum in respect of costs at the rate of £9.25 for each hour reasonably spent in preparation and attendance. He may be allowed a reasonable sum in excess of that amount if he can show that his work on the case has caused him financial loss justifying a higher award.

 

39 In all cases there is an absolute cap on the amount recoverable by a litigant in person, namely the reasonable costs of disbursements plus two thirds of the amount which would have been allowed if the litigant in person had been legally represented. (rule 48.6(2)). The litigant in person is entitled to recover in addition: payments reasonably made for legal services relating to the conduct of the proceedings; and the costs of obtaining expert assistance in connection with assessing the claim for costs. This does mean that a litigant in person may be able to claim both the cost of obtaining legal advice and services as well as the cost of undertaking the litigation in person. Those qualified to give expert assistance in connection with assessing the claim for costs are: a barrister, a solicitor, Fellow of the Institute of Legal Executives, Fellow of the Association of Law Costs Draftsmen, a law costs draftsman who is a member of the Academy of Experts and a law costs draftsman who is a member of the Expert Witness Institute.

 

40 Although the definition of litigant in person includes a solicitor, a solicitor who instead of acting for himself is represented in the proceedings by his firm, or by himself in his firm name, is not, for the purpose of the Civil Procedure Rules, a litigant in person (see Section 52 of the Costs Practice Direction).

 

 

Publications - Guidance

 

 

Louis

[MadKit]

I realise the last post (cue bugle sound) was quite a while ago but I have tried to ask for costs and this is what the court said:

 

I write in ref to the above claim numbers in your letter dat 2.5.07, it is not clear if the claim is settled or you still have outstanding amount to be paid in by the defendant. Please be aware that if the defendant paid in full claim amount and you state it as settled then the case is closed.

 

I thought we could only claim for costs after the claim has been settled, does this mean that we have to ask for costs before this or that we can't ask for costs?

[meagain]

Put simply, the hourly rate is £9.25, and that is the end of it. You are not supposed to be taking time off work to deal with your case, therefore you are not entitled to your usual working rate. Of course, if you are slugging through the case while at work, then you have already been paid and have not lost anything.

 

The only time your actual earnings come into play is if you have to take time away from work to attend a hearing at court (and not merely to file your N1 in person - it can be done via MCOL or through the post). In that case, you can claim your usual earnings, up to a maximum £50 for the day, which you will need to prove.

[MadKit]

The Order for Costs on the website lists the hours @ £9.25, photocopies, letters and faxes, phone calls. As my cases have all lasted over 5 months, I've had to copy and send 3 x court bundles for each of the 5 cases and I had to take time off work to attend the hearings as the cases were not settled until the actual day, surely I can claim for all of this too? I read on the HCMS site and someone else quoted here:

 

Litigants in Person

 

38 Where the receiving party is a litigant in person rule 48.6 (Appendix 1) governs the way in which the question of costs should be dealt with. A litigant in person may be allowed a sum in respect of costs at the rate of £9.25 for each hour reasonably spent in preparation and attendance. He may be allowed a reasonable sum in excess of that amount if he can show that his work on the case has caused him financial loss justifying a higher award.

 

39 In all cases there is an absolute cap on the amount recoverable by a litigant in person, namely the reasonable costs of disbursements plus two thirds of the amount which would have been allowed if the litigant in person had been legally represented. (rule 48.6(2)). The litigant in person is entitled to recover in addition: payments reasonably made for legal services relating to the conduct of the proceedings; and the costs of obtaining expert assistance in connection with assessing the claim for costs. This does mean that a litigant in person may be able to claim both the cost of obtaining legal advice and services as well as the cost of undertaking the litigation in person. Those qualified to give expert assistance in connection with assessing the claim for costs are: a barrister, a solicitor, Fellow of the Institute of Legal Executives, Fellow of the Association of Law Costs Draftsmen, a law costs draftsman who is a member of the Academy of Experts and a law costs draftsman who is a member of the Expert Witness Institute.

 

40 Although the definition of litigant in person includes a solicitor, a solicitor who instead of acting for himself is represented in the proceedings by his firm, or by himself in his firm name, is not, for the purpose of the Civil Procedure Rules, a litigant in person (see Section 52 of the Costs Practice Direction).

 

[meagain]

The Order for Costs on the website lists the hours @ £9.25, photocopies, letters and faxes, phone calls. As my cases have all lasted over 5 months, I've had to copy and send 3 x court bundles for each of the 5 cases and I had to take time off work to attend the hearings as the cases were not settled until the actual day, surely I can claim for all of this too?

 

You need to back it up. If you have an itemised phone bill and have kept receipts for the photocopying, then you have supporting evidence, otherwise you're SOL. As has been said, you can claim your lost earnings for the day, up to £50 excluding travel expense (CPR 24.17(2)(e), PD27-7.3) - if you earn more than this, again you are probably SOL.

 

It would appear the document you have spotted is intended as guidance for the DJ, rather than guidance for the claimant. The definitive statement will be within the CPR themselves (which are not as dense as you might expect for legal process).

[Muffintop]

Hi, Would this be a possibility if the claim was entered through moneyclaim, then the defendant 'Acknowledged' but then didn't even bother to defend the claim and thus allowing me to request judgement by default after 28 days?

 

Wasted loads of time and money writing letters, mailing them and on the phone in all.

 

Has anybody else claimed for wasted costs, and how much is a 'reasonable amount'?

 

Cheers

not yet but i plan to.. how much do you think per letter per hour?

[chocolatte]

I realise the last post (cue bugle sound) was quite a while ago but I have tried to ask for costs and this is what the court said:

 

I write in ref to the above claim numbers in your letter dat 2.5.07, it is not clear if the claim is settled or you still have outstanding amount to be paid in by the defendant. Please be aware that if the defendant paid in full claim amount and you state it as settled then the case is closed.

 

I thought we could only claim for costs after the claim has been settled, does this mean that we have to ask for costs before this or that we can't ask for costs?

Same happened to me, nothing left to do then I spose? I think if you recall the claim you can ask for costs? This is where it all flies right over my head!

[Muffintop]

this is mad.... how can you claim the costs at the time of the claim, you wouldnt know how many letters you would send or the tracking numbers etc etc. Iv just spent an hour evidencing every letter, tracking number etc etc, going to sent it in to the court still, if I get the same reply back then we need some direction from BF or someone in the know as to how to push it to another level. any one out there who can tell us what to do if its refused as above? skeggsy

[redsonja]

Can anyone help this person about the Wasted Costs Order as she has to go to court tomorrow with it?

Thanks

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/98005-wasted-costs-hearing-guildford.html#post912309