Spiritgirl -v- Various DCAs

[Hopeful1]

Oh good grief Spiritgirl. Aren't they annoying? Why can't these OCs just stand up and say we made a mistake. We'll compensate you and learn for the future.

 

I'm surprised at your IOO response. Responses can be so varied from these official complaints bodies. I think that's why OCs and DCAs risk breaking the regulations, 'cause there is a good chance they'll get away with it.

 

Don't give up

[surprise]

SG

I've had the same response from the ICO and a similar letter on more than one occasion from Cap One. As you say they keep sending Terms and Conditions. One of their letters stated we will be sending you our Terms and Conditions under separate cover. I wrote back pleading - Please no more terms and conditions I have more than I know what to do with. I've had 3 lots in total. I have actually put my claim in with the FOS and since this claim went in at the end of May and I advised Cap One I was doing this, I have had no less than six letters from them, saying they were sorry they couldn't help me and the usual waffle. They also stated that they had sent me a true signed copy of a credit agreement. I have written back and said enough is enough they have been advised that the FOS are dealing with my claim and we shall have to agree to disagree on application/agreement. They don't go lightly, I've found that I resulted in being rude and sarcastic which was not the road I wanted to go down.

 

Good luck with yours but I must say I am finding them very inept and tiresome and they just keep digging themselves in holes.

[rory32]

I've found that I resulted in being rude and sarcastic

:eek: The very idea!!

 

Keep pushing suprise, you'll get there eventually.

[surprise]

Rory

 

I sent you a pm earlier on another matter, did you get it?

[alamand]

Thanks Spiritgirl

Good luck with Crap 1, they seem to be a right pain in the ****.

I know I'm a pain in the ****, but could you or Rory have a look at another of my threads MTB v CL Finance for me cos nobody is answering.

I am sure it is a proper agreement but i just need your expert advise before I try and offer a full and final settlement.

Last year I offered Full & Final Settlements to all my creditors, but everybody refused(husband was really ill at the time).

Now he's fine(almost) and I've got a new job and was looking to sort debts out, when I came across you lovely people.

BIG THANKYOU

Alamand

[rory32]

Hi suprise,

I'll have a look at your PM tomorrow (and hopefully answer it as well).

 

Alamand if you post a link to your thread I'll have a look at it.

[alamand]

Thanks Rory

How do I do that?

[alamand]

[alamand]

Sorry, I messed about trying to do it and copied and pasted. Does it tell you some where how to include a link?

I know i'm not very computer literate yet,I'm getting there slowly.As you can guess i can copy and paste now.

When it says include link,I pressed that, then it said http???, thats when I'm lost.

Sorry

Alamand

[spiritgirl59]

Hi alamand

 

You are best going on a site like Photobucket (registration is free), uploading your stuff on there, and once its uploaded you will see links listed underneath your picture, one of which is a URL link. If you then copy and paste that URL link into a reply on here, it can be clicked on and we can have a look at it. I'm not a whizz on computers either so don't worry, you are not alone LOL. Photobucket is very easy though, I promise you. If you go on there and still have problems pm me and I will try to help you.

 

Meantime what you have posted looks like it will pass as an agreement to me, as it does contain terms and conditions on the right hand side BUT I would not like to say for certain, I hope someone a bit more knowledgeable can have a look for you!

 

Guys, I am going to write to Crap1 at the address on their complaints leaflet as follows :-

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account No: XXXX

 

I refer to the above numbered account and my endless attempts to obtain a copy of a properly executed credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Despite numerous exchanges of correspondence with your firm since XXXX 2007, and most recently with Ms XXXX, , I am still not in receipt of a properly executed credit agreement.

 

You have sent to me endless photocopies of an “application form” which you purport to be a “credit agreement” and copies of photocopied terms and conditions which could apply to anyone at all since they are not signed or dated or in any way associated with the account.

 

I enclose a further copy of my letter dated XXXX to Ms XXXX, advising you of your duties under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The contents of that letter still apply and I await hearing from you further.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Then they can (hopefully, but I will not hold my breath!) instigate their "complaints procedure" - after which I will contact the FOS. Whatever happens I am not giving in, and like you Surprise I will just let them keep digging an ever deeper hole for themselves

 

Love Spiritgirl x

[rory32]

Spiritgirl, why are you so reluctant to accept what they have sent you as a copy of the credit agreement?

[ncf355]

Rory,

 

if its an application form it cant be an executed agreement

 

Eeven the DTI have confirmed this (see PeterBards posts)

 

Also, if you look at the OFT document on agreement construction, it has to contain the preseribed terms within the signature document (or at the very least make reference to the relevant section - such as "for apr see section 1.3a of your terms and conditions)

 

If there is nothing directly linking the sig document and the T and C's then they are worthless

 

Othewise they could pull out a document stating "customer X agrees to give X credit Co Ltd their first born child" and claim that as part of the agreement

 

I believe someone on the site recently won a similar case, and made a point to the judge by creating a false document stating the credit company owed him X thosands, just to illustrate how if the original document with the original sig is not available the case is hopeless

[ncf355]

Sorry, I messed about trying to do it and copied and pasted. Does it tell you some where how to include a link?

I know i'm not very computer literate yet,I'm getting there slowly.As you can guess i can copy and paste now.

When it says include link,I pressed that, then it said http???, thats when I'm lost.

Sorry

Alamand

 

 

At the very least, Alamands "agreement" is improperly executed as it contains info between the title and signature box that is not part of the CCA 1974 requirements and therefore breaks the 'no insterspersing' rule of Consumer Credit Regulations - regulation 2(4) SI 1553

[rory32]

if its an application form it cant be an executed agreement

 

That wasn't my point. My point was that if the creditor state that this is a copy of your credit agreement and supply a document then this is a copy of your agreement for the purposes of the Act and is the document they would have to rely on in court. I would be quite happy if they were to provide me with a napkin with my signature on it as a copy of my agreement. The more unenforceable the copy of the agreement is the better from your point of view.

[spiritgirl59]

Hi Rory & ncf

 

I do know what you mean Rory - in other words why should I bother challenging them further if they are insisting what they have sent me on three separate occasions now (being a badly photocopied application form) is the only "agreement" they have?

 

I just find Crap1 so irritating like Surprise has said, in that they keep on sending rubbish and insisting that they are complying with my request Its the principle of it really, they are treating me as if I am too stupid to realise that what they are sending is an application form etc - do you know what I mean?

 

Love Spiritgirl x

[surprise]

SG - they've got to you too! I started off one of my letters "Please do not be so condescending", like I said I have become rude and sarcastic my letters were always polite before I joined CAG!

[deedee1310]

Hey Spirit.

 

My - hasn't this thread moved along, so has Hopeful's too.

 

I'm yet to start my thread with regards to my battles with the DCAs only because I have been sidetracked with my bank and credit card claims.

 

I've also received some of the same "gems" from Crap One as you have. Did you get the "template" letter of your default notice and statement of default? I did it made me ROFPML!

 

Anyway it's good to see your fighting spirit back. I had a blow yesterday, but I'm feeling better now CapQuest CCJ.

 

I won't leave it so long before I check in again.

 

deedee xx

[ncf355]

That wasn't my point. My point was that if the creditor state that this is a copy of your credit agreement and supply a document then this is a copy of your agreement for the purposes of the Act and is the document they would have to rely on in court. I would be quite happy if they were to provide me with a napkin with my signature on it as a copy of my agreement. The more unenforceable the copy of the agreement is the better from your point of view.

 

 

Oops! sorry Rory, got so used to people with the "that cant be possible, you must pay" attitude - sorry!!

 

As for the napkin bit, the one Cap 1 sent to my wife might as well have been -

 

A4 piece of paper with her name and address in top left corner, then in the middle about 3/4 down, a sig box with her sig and the words "cca regulated by cca 1974"

 

roll on court......

 

[elizabeth1]

Oops! sorry Rory, got so used to people with the "that cant be possible, you must pay" attitude - sorry!!

 

As for the napkin bit, the one Cap 1 sent to my wife might as well have been -

 

A4 piece of paper with her name and address in top left corner, then in the middle about 3/4 down, a sig box with her sig and the words "cca regulated by cca 1974"

 

roll on court......

 

 

Seems to be the only way to deal with these people - they are idiots really!!

I can't wait till my September hearing date comes around as they will sure have an interesting time explaining to judge about their antics?

[Monty2007]

I think the best approach is to have them try to enforce and then contest and counter-claim in respect of the CCA and harassment etc,. if a DCA is involved. If the debt is relatively low they will not want to go to court and given they sell debts at 10-20% there is a good chance of a settlement and include the removal of defaults etc as part of the settlement.

 

In one of Laiste's posts (which are excellent!) I lifted the following and used them in my letter:

In addition, the Default Notices that you served on me are legally invalid as they both request amounts in excess of the alleged breach of contract. For both xxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxx, the amount requested contain penalty charges which were levied to each of the alleged accounts, and are unlawful at Common Law, under the The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

So essentially anyone who has been served a default that has an element of penalty charges can contest that the Default Notice was invalid since it was in excess of the alleged breach of contract. Love it..........

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Rory & ncf

 

I do know what you mean Rory - in other words why should I bother challenging them further if they are insisting what they have sent me on three separate occasions now (being a badly photocopied application form) is the only "agreement" they have?

 

I just find Crap1 so irritating like Surprise has said, in that they keep on sending rubbish and insisting that they are complying with my request Its the principle of it really, they are treating me as if I am too stupid to realise that what they are sending is an application form etc - do you know what I mean?

 

Love Spiritgirl x

 

Hello Spiritgirl,

 

I know exactly how you mean and how you feel, I have previously argued and argued with these showers of idiots (all companies), who I feel are trying to mislead me, trying to be so clever. because they are certainly not:p where in fact I have now realised they are only digging a bigger hole for themselves:D

 

I now am so so happy when they confirm that the application form is my credit agreement. I now jump up and down with glee:D I am now learning to channel my annoyance into being one step ahead.

[alamand]

Hi every one, just finished work.

So is the agreement in post 333 an executed one?, or if it isn't what does it fall down on.

NCF355 states something about Consumer Credit Regulations-Regulation 2(4) SI 1553.

Never heard of that one. Will try and look it up on google.

Thanks

Alamand

[spiritgirl59]

Good morning friends

 

Update on Creation Financial Services Ltd :-

 

It gets better and better :o

 

I have received a FURTHER copy of the same application form this morning, a photocopied general terms and conditions sheet dated 2003 which has no connection whatsoever with the application form, and a complaints leaflet for the Financial Ombudsman. This is what they have said in their latest little gem (my bold type...I know the irony won't be lost on you guys LOL) :-

 

Dear Spiritgirl

 

Thank you for your letter date XXXX July 2007 regarding your XXXX account.

 

I am very sorry that your previous request for a copy of your application form was not actioned. I can assure you that the relevant manager has been advised of this matter, and all training needs will be addressed. Please find enclosed a copy of your application form as requested.

 

We note that you consider you have no obligation to pay. This is not accurate. Your obligation does not cease. We are not entitled to enforce until such time as we have provided the copy agreement enclosed but this is separate from your obligation to pay.

 

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me on XXXX.

 

I hope this now resolves the matter in full. If you are not satisfied with this response, you have the option to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, South Quay Plaza, 183 Marsh Wall, London E14 9SR. A leaflet is enclosed which gives further details and you must make your complaint within six months of the date of this letter.

 

Yours sincerely

 

I give up...they are totally dense! I shall sit back and wait to see what happens now. Rory, you have given me food for thought earlier in this thread, if THIS copy application form is what they are going to try to "enforce" with then good luck to them - why should I waste any more time on them?

 

Love Spiritgirl x

[babybear39]

Perhaps the 'training needs' should include how to read and action a request for a copy of a CCA

[stadium_arcadium]

if THIS copy application form is what they are going to try to "enforce" with then good luck to them - why should I waste any more time on them?

 

Love Spiritgirl x

 

Good on you SG!! My thoughts exactly! They are doing just waht Lowell are doing to me, ignoring the facts I point out to them and repeating themselves. No need to waste anymore effort on them, let them cut their own throats!

Stay strong

SA xx