Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!

[lizzydripping1]

I know this letter is premature But I wnt to be ready for them - or do you think I should be more forceful.

letter to go with re-submission of complaint - 12th July 2007.doc

[bluedannyw]

I am finally ready to issue N1 form to cambridge court to get unlawful charges from TSB going back to 1997. Is there a template for the particular of claims for a claim that goes beyond the 6 years. Do you need to mention the concealment act? or has someone got a particular of claims form that I could tweak to my own situation? Thanks Dan.

[MacBoy]

Just finished a conversation with the Halifax. Spoke to a 'Customer Complaints Manager' who, although apologetic for this morning's cock-up, YET AGAIN gave me the 6 Year fob-off. I made my case that their obligations under the Data Protection Act are to provide ALL the data they hold about me and account for anything they cannot provide. I requested that a case number be assigned.

 

I am now going to deploy my 'Incomplete Disclosure' letter from the other day, containing the case number from today, PLUS the name of the manager that 'assisted' me. In doing this, I will be doing all I can I believe, to prevent these idiots fouling up again - and hopefully will also be tying my letter to this afternoon's conversation. I shall send a copy (clearly watermarked as such) to their Compliance department; in addition to the copy I am sending to Customer (Dysfunctional) Relations.

 

In addition to confirming in writing my agreement with HFX today and their commitment on the phone, the letter will also serve as as a 14 Day LBA for Data Protection Act non-compliance.

 

I shall simultaneously commence my complaint to the Information Commissioner because I have now had it with these fools. No more forbearance.

 

If anyone thinks I might be doing the wrong thing (or that I'm wrong about their obligations to provide me with all the data they hold about me) I'd love to hear any thoughts, suggestions and feedback. Thanks in advance!

 

Mac

 

(draft copy of my letter, which I'll change slightly to reflect today's conversation) here.

 

Will post actual copy up here later for review and, all being well, send it (Special Delivery of course Mr. Postie! ) in the morning.

 

Cheers

Mac

[MacBoy]

That missive in full:

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998 - (Subject Access Request - Response To Incomplete Disclosure)

 

Current Account - Sort Code NN-NN-NN Account no. NNNNNNNN (X/NNNNNNN-N - closed)

Credit Card - Account Number NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN (plus predecessor accounts)

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Case Reference: NNNNN - Handling Manager - Xxx Xxxxxxx (NAME)

 

With reference to a telephone conversation held today with the above-named manager, I have today been provided statements from closure of the above-numbered current account on [date], back to [date]; which are duplicates of statements already sent to me on [date] (and which are still incomplete).

 

Curiously, I have also been provided with some credit card statements ranging from [date] to [date] only. As you are well aware, my current account dates from [date] back to [date] and I have had a credit card account with you since [date].

 

This was in response to my original request under s.7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 sent on 30/03/2007, accompanied by the appropriate fee, which was subsequently cashed by yourselves.

 

I would like to remind you that your obligation under s.7 is to supply all data held by your company irrespective of the age of such data. If you contend that you do not hold such data before a given time, please could you confirm this in writing by providing the relevant certificate(s) of destruction for the data I require, by the date set out below?

 

Please note that I am not prepared to accept any ex curia representations regarding company policy or any cited legislation, which you may provide in explanation of any incomplete delivery of the information I originally requested. As a Data Controller you are required to fulfil your obligations within 40 days of the receipt of such request; namely the provision of a complete copy of all the data you hold about me. The time period for compliance in this matter expired on [date]. As of the date of writing, you are 54 days out of compliance.

 

In addition to the statements, I also require copies of any additional data held about me by your company. However, as a gesture of goodwill to allow you sufficient time to comply, I shall extend this time period for a further 14 days, as agreed with Ms. Xxxxxxx.

 

If you fail to supply me with the remainder of the data that you hold prior to [date] for the current account, plus the complete set of credit card data within this period; together with any additional data you hold, I shall commence court action to enforce compliance immediately. There will be no further discretionary extensions, nor any further direct communication from myself.

 

In addition to the above action, I shall be making a complaint to the Information Commissioner regarding your organisation's lamentable performance in the exercise of its responsibilities under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

I look forward to receiving your response.

 

 

Yours faithfully

etc.

(2 copies - one to Data Controller, one to Compliance Dept.)

[joesoap]

Macboy

 

Your letter is similar to the one I have sent Amex. Although I have no charges I do have a CCJ from a while back then I found out that there is no CCA, only an application. I have asked them politely for ALL info but they've came back twice with the same old cr*p! Consequently, I've now sent my letter which demands everything you've requested. I have also demanded that they arrange to have my CCJ removed from the records as it was obtained illegally. I am waiting for the reply.

[MacBoy]

joesoap

 

Thanks for the feedback - let us all know how you get on. The reason I devised this (and I can't take all the credit for it - it's reworked version of a letter by ZootScoot), was to have a something that tackled this situation where the banks keep driving people around in circles with the '6 year fob-off'; inviting them (a little more forcibly than the current templates) to state in writing why they they can't comply with their obligations.

 

It's experimental in that respect, but I'll keep everyone informed as to whether it has any effect.

 

Mac

[MacBoy]

Sent my final LBA (Response To Incomplete Disclosure) letter this morning (copies to Compliance Dept. and the Data Controller). As agreed with the Halifax Case Manager, this gives them a further 14 days to comply with the original DSAR sent on 31st March (!!!!).

 

They are 54 days out of compliance as i write this. This is beyond incompetence in my view - it is a deliberate attempt to stall my case. I shall prepare an N1 and Court bundle in the interim. I have also filed complaint about the above with the Information Commissioner's Office today.

[Dusary]

I am finally ready to issue N1 form to cambridge court to get unlawful charges from TSB going back to 1997. Is there a template for the particular of claims for a claim that goes beyond the 6 years. Do you need to mention the concealment act? or has someone got a particular of claims form that I could tweak to my own situation? Thanks Dan.

 

 

Have a look here, Dan:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html?highlight=bong

[b_the_jackal]

You'd better believe it... If they stall long enough, I'm sure there's plenty of people who will just give up. Going to, ahem, borrow some of your letter, as it is really useful to my situation. I sent my SAR back at the start of May, so far I have had statements for 2001 to present (twice), but nothing for the years up to the end of 2000. I sent an LBA on 21st June, to which they have said they will give me an 'answer or update' by 19th July (which will put them at 78 days). In phone calls they've alternately said stuff before 98/99 has been destroyed, or stuff back to 1995 does exist but is archived. For timescales they have said my account will next be 'reviewed' on the 18th July (has anyone else encountered these 'review dates'?), and then that they have marked it 'urgent' but that 'urgent' doesn't indicate any particular response time...

 

I'm pondering over how long to give them. Obviously, want to be, and be seen to be, as reasonable to *them* as possible throughout the process, doesn't reflect well for the bank if they don't extend the same courtesy to *me*. They are already up to Day 63, so would it be unreasonable to request full compliance and the documents on my doormat by, say, Friday 13th?

 

Ooh, Friday 13th... Unlucky for some!

[MacBoy]

b_the_jackal

If they are claiming that they have destroyed part of your data, have you considered asking them for evidence of this; such as Certificates Of Destruction? If they are saying some is still in Archiving, well make them bloody well retrieve it!

 

I would be prepared to bet they still have everything. Make them substantiate their verbal claims.

[b_the_jackal]

Yes, going to work that into the letter. One thing I'm not sure on, I know with Barclays that they hold data for 12 years, but I don't know how they time that. As in, do they destroy stuff after 12 years, to the day, or just at the end of each year? So, they have said they hold stuff back to 1995, but would that go back to the start of Jan 1995, so 12 and a bit years? Anyhow, the worst of the charges were from 1998 to 2000 I think, but will push for a certificate of destruction for anything they claim they no longer have.

 

All this obstruction is very frustrating as you're stalled until they comply, kicking and screaming. But never mind, will all reflect badly on them further down the line...

 

A nice quote from the complaints procedure leaflet they sent me "It would be really good to know that if I wanted to complain, someone would be right there to listen and respond". Yes, would be good, a response that wasn't a fob-off would be nice too!

[MacBoy]

I know with Barclays that they hold data for 12 years

Do you really know this for a fact, or is it more hearsay from the bank staff?

 

There may be better advice from my 'more learned friends', but I would say assume nothing and ask for everything! Do not go in assuming any prior knowledge about their archiving regime - it could damage your case and allow them to take advantage.

[b_the_jackal]

True, true.

 

The experience of other users on this site is that they have been able to obtain going back 12 years from Barclays. 'Facts' from Barclays themselves seem to change like the wind, so won't take what they say as gospel - in fact, seems to be a part of their stalling tactics as you get a lot of contradicory statements depending on who you speak to...

 

Will push for full details of the full history of my account, with certificates of destruction for everything they 'claim' to have destroyed.

 

Thanks!

[MacBoy]

Exactly! And don't forget to elicit from them their exact reason for any limitation they are imposing. These are precisely the kind of tactics I'm encountering with the Halifax - it's all designed to put you off the scent.

 

Best

Mac

[carolineiam]

If only it was that easy - it would be like Tescos and sainsbury donating all their clubcard and nectar points that aren't used to charity. What isn't claimed is money in their pockets!!!!!!

Welcome Maggie...

 

 

 

Or any other method of destruction - yes that should be fine.

Good luck standing!!!!!!

 

Perseus

 

 

hello there where from east kent are you ...wll you have to deal with canterbury cc ? Interesting name...my hubby is Hellenic

[TANZARELLI]

Do you really know this for a fact, or is it more hearsay from the bank staff?

 

There may be better advice from my 'more learned friends', but I would say assume nothing and ask for everything! Do not go in assuming any prior knowledge about their archiving regime - it could damage your case and allow them to take advantage.

 

I have had 12 years of statements from barclays, and their letter confirmed thats all they hold it for. Its prob longer but that is what they seem to be going by.

 

Tanz

[MacBoy]

Cheers Tanz - was just making sure b_t_j wasn't getting suckered in by some corporate line

[TANZARELLI]

Cheers Tanz - was just making sure b_t_j wasn't getting suckered in by some corporate line

 

No probs.

[TANZARELLI]

Thanks For The Anonymous Click

[lizzydripping1]

The Message Seems To Be Gettinf Through At Last! I Go An E-mail This Morning From The Ico And Minutes Shortly After That I Had A Telephone Call Phone The Halifax Asking Me Exactly What I Had Wanted Obviously Looked Different To What It Looked Like In The Lats 10 Or 12 Letters And Asking Them Almost Every Other Days On The Telephone. Lets Hope This E-mail Gets Along With This Post.

REPKY TO DATA PROTECTION COMPLAINT.doc

[Jeff2000]

Now we know that it is worth complaining!

 

It may take some time, but you will get the right result in the end!

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[TUTTSI]

Can anybody help me! I want to complete the N1 this weekend.

I do have Bongs, but as this was some time ago is there anything else that has become current that I should be aware of. Also, was there a case recently that lost with contracual interest?

I am looking for a POC for 6 years plus...... has anybody got an upto date version that I could look at please.......I have a case with the Halifax going back 10 years and most of the charges are in excess of 6 years.

 

Also, what is the situation with Contractial & or Compound Interest being claimed and can this be sucessfull with claims over 6 years. or is it best to stick with Stat 8%.

 

Thanks

ds

[groovycaz]

Hi dsilverstein

I filed claim against the cooperative going back to 1996 with CCI, N1 filed waiting for a reply, should hear next week, also a few more on here, phatram, more than 6 years also photoman and celicaman, do you have your details of chages yet?..GC

[TUTTSI]

Hi GC

Thankyou for responding to my cry for help!!

 

I have already written the letters and now it is time to issue the POC.

 

Do you have or does anyone else have the POC details for 6+ years claims using CCL (Compound Contractual Interest) as this looks like being the best route and could it be PM to me.

 

Thankyou.

DS

[Celicaman]

Can anybody help me! I want to complete the N1 this weekend.

 

I do have Bongs, but as this was some time ago is there anything else that has become current that I should be aware of. Also, was there a case recently that lost with contracual interest?

 

I am looking for a POC for 6 years plus...... has anybody got an upto date version that I could look at please.......I have a case with the Halifax going back 10 years and most of the charges are in excess of 6 years.

 

Also, what is the situation with Contractial & or Compound Interest being claimed and can this be sucessfull with claims over 6 years. or is it best to stick with Stat 8%.

 

Thanks

ds

 

THe case that was lost was where they were claiming CI with a claim of charges, the court case date was set, and at some point before, the bank offered full refund plus Stat 8% interest,

Instead of accepting that as full payment, the claimant proceeded to court for the CI part of the claim only, and lost on that basis, also tried appeal and that failed.

Problem was that to claim CI without the charges was never looking good, because the bank had settled & paid the charges plus stat, so in court the bank did not have to argue about the actual charges, they only had to argue against the CI.

Even if a full claim ever got to court, you would still have to argue for the CI if you won the charges part, thats why you put in the N1 the various bits about if the court does not agree with CI, then you claim stat s69.

 

You can still try CI, but you need to know your stuff, It is a game of chicken and the banks will do all they can to get you to drop it (including some dirty tactics) but you may get more back than with stat claim.

Just Remember, IF the bank offer full refund plus stat, Accept it and bow out, its still a win.

 

Celicaman