Claiming beyond 6 yrs - important new information!!!

[Dusary]

I have read with interest I am a new member, successfullly claimed back from First Direct £1500 (no interest). I now wish to make a claim against Halifax and Citicards,can anyone help?

 

 

Hi sarah_jane.

 

I think that you should start a new thread of your own.

 

it makes it easier for folks to follow and add their comments.

 

Welcome! And good luck!

[kennyh]

Bunnie,

Do a search on the forum for references to the Limitation Act 1980(I think) and all should become clear.

[TANZARELLI]

Hi Bunnie here, I am new to this site so I hope I get this right, I have statements going back to 1994. I put in a claim with Barclays Bank and they came back with a settlement offer, I called them to negotiate a deal because the amount was no where near what I am claiming, It turns out that the bank will only go back 6 years so to 2001. The chap asked me where I was getting my figures so I said I have statements going back to 1994 he said ah we calculate only back 6 years and said it wasn’t set by the bank as to how far back anyone could claim it was the government. Is this true and how do I claim back all my charges back to 1994? I hope all that makes sence.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice

 

Bunnie

 

Hi Bunnie,

 

Section 32 of the Limitations Act 1980 states:

 

32.--

· (1) .... where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-

· (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

· (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or

· © the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

· the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it. ....

· (2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above, deliberate commission of a breach of duty in circumstances in which it is unlikely to be discovered for some time amounts to deliberate concealment of the facts involved in that breach of duty. . . .

(5) Sections 14A and 14B of this Act shall not apply to any action to which subsection (1)(b) above applies (and accordingly the period of limitation referred to in that sub-section, in any case to which either of those sections would otherwise apply, is the period applicable under section 2 of this Act).

 

This is what we use to keep claims in the primary limitation period. However it is not just a case of adding this into our Particulars of Claim and expecting it to get allowed. We need to argue this should apply and the arguements are that we beleive the Banks have deliberately concealed this information from us or the other arguement is that we mistakingly pais the charges believing them to be lawful. You will need to read up on this if you are going to attempt a claim like this. This thread from the start is a good place to start.

 

Also look here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/33005-bong-hsbc-contractual-interest.html

 

also here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/3598-do-you-have-charges.html

 

Also here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/66227-limitation-act-1980-s32.html

 

Tanz

[groovycaz]

Hi all

can anyone tell me please what the authorised borrowing rate is for the cooperative business bank, decided to alter my POC to include unauthorised and authorised as well as county court act 8% but because I was only ever charged unauthorised dont know what the authorised rate is... Many Thanks...GC

[wayne451]

Hi all

can anyone tell me please what the authorised borrowing rate is for the cooperative business bank, decided to alter my POC to include unauthorised and authorised as well as county court act 8% but because I was only ever charged unauthorised dont know what the authorised rate is... Many Thanks...GC

 

It is 4% above base rate at the time!

[TANZARELLI]

Hi all

can anyone tell me please what the authorised borrowing rate is for the cooperative business bank, decided to alter my POC to include unauthorised and authorised as well as county court act 8% but because I was only ever charged unauthorised dont know what the authorised rate is... Many Thanks...GC

 

Co-operative Bank - Charges

[j.barton1]

Hi All, I am at mercantile court for directions hearing on thurs for my claim against a&l for pre 6yrs, i have got some case law and sec 32 together, hopefully i wont need it.

 

Jenny

[MacBoy]

The very best of luck, Jenny - be sure and let us know how you get on - I'm following you to court for a pre-6 years case hopefully soon. We're rooting for you!

 

Mac

[wayne451]

By people refering to it as 'pre 6 year' case would I be right in assuming it is best to get the initial 6 year claim out of the way first and approach the next as a seperate matter, rather than doing it all at once?

[Celicaman]

By people refering to it as 'pre 6 year' case would I be right in assuming it is best to get the initial 6 year claim out of the way first and approach the next as a seperate matter, rather than doing it all at once?

 

Hi Wayne

No it is best to claim all in one claim. Keep your pre 6 year claim intact with the rest of your claim. You will have to use the limitations act S32 and i think its the utcr 1977 to argue your claim and it may take a little longer.

The reason for not seperating the claim is if a court looks at pre 6 years Only, its harder to argue it and possably get it thrown out if not presented correctly, added with post 6 year charges, it cant be thrown out even if not presented correctly as your other charges claims are safe if you follow the correct procedures.

good luck

 

Celicaman

[j.barton1]

By people refering to it as 'pre 6 year' case would I be right in assuming it is best to get the initial 6 year claim out of the way first and approach the next as a seperate matter, rather than doing it all at once?

I've kept all my claim together, which is recommended. Anyone got any suggestions to sway the judge? I am trying to put a "script" together incase the judge wants me to fight the sola.

Jenny

[MacBoy]

Update

25th June 0207

 

Just put in a final call to HFX before enforcing Data Protection Act non-compliance. Very nice lady gave me a case reference number and acknowledged several times that 'yes Mr Mac, this has been going on a very long time now and we need to get it resolved'.

 

She has taken this action for the missing credit card statements, but appears to believe that they have already fulfilled all their requirements on the current account side by providing 6 years (probably what they are trained to say).

 

My take on this is that it is pointless me arguing the toss over the pre-6 years business with her. I am disagreeing with the Halifax coprporate viewpoint and intend to press them for the whole lot.

 

Therefore, I should still file an N1 and make a complaint to the commissioner regardless of this conversation; something I only viewed as a courtesy call anyway.

 

Thoughts would be greatly appreciated - if only to help me clarify things in my head!

 

Cheers

Mac

[MacBoy]

Right. I've calmed down now and been doing a little thinking. I've had several disjointed and inappropriate responses from the HFX now, so I think that what's needed is a further written response to focus their minds and get the attention of the right people 'higher up' (the ones that are shielded by the call centre 'cannon fodder').

 

I've decided to prepare an 'interim' letter - one designed specifically for a '+6 yr' action, that would go in between a LBA for a Data Protection Act non-compliance action and the litigation itself. I know some of you would say 'just file for court' and I am prepared to accept that advice too, if I receive a good enough reason from you guys not to send the following. I'm also not massively time-focused with this, as I've never budgeted for having the money back so I'm not missing it.

 

I'ts a reworked version of a letter composed by ZootScoot, so much credit due there - I've modified it and a draft is below for your comments (and it would be especially good, ZootScoot, if you could feedback too if you see this ).

 

I think that there is a gap that this letter could fill in exactly the situation Dusary and myself find ourselves at the moment. We both need to get off this lunatic merry-go-round of dealing with unempowered call centre staff and receiving nonsensical standard letters; and focus on getting ourselves in front of decision-makers who understand the implications.

 

I've entitled it a 'response to partial disclosure':

 

To the Data Controller (important - not dear Sir/Madam etc.)

 

cc. Compliance Dept. (this bit is important too - suggest you make a second copy and address it to this dept.)

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request - Response to Partial Disclosure

 

 

Current Account no: xxxxxxxxx Credit Card Account no. xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx (and predecessors)

I sent a request under s.7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 on 30/03/2007, accompanied by the appropriate fee, which was subsequently cashed by yourselves. I received some of my personal data on 04/06/2007. This comprised current account statements dating from account closure back to XX/XX/2000. My current account was opened on XX/XX/1987. To date, I have seen no statements whatsoever for the credit card.

 

I would like to remind you that your obligation under s.7 is to supply all data held by your company irrespective of the age of such data. If you contend that you do not hold such data before a given time, please could you confirm this by providing the relevant certificate(s) of destruction for the data I require?

 

Please note that I am not prepared to accept any ex curia representations regarding the Limitations Act 1980 or any other legislation, given in explanation of any incomplete delivery of the information I originally requested. (feedback on this bit please -my objective here is to restrict such arguments to court and show that we will not be fobbed off with their pseudo-legal twaddle - as far as I am aware the requirement is for all the data they hold about you, in the absence of a good legal reason as to why not)

 

I would also point out that as a Data Controller you are required to fulfil your obligations within 40 days of the receipt of request. The time period for compliance in this matter expired on 10/05/2007. As of the date of writing, you are now 47 days out of compliance.

 

In addition to the statements, I also require copies of any additional data held about me by your company. However, as a gesture of goodwill to allow you sufficient time to comply, I shall extend this time period for a further N days.

 

If you fail to supply me with the remainder of the data that you hold prior to XX/XX/2000 for the current account, plus the complete set of credit card data within this period; together with any additional data you hold, I shall commence court action to enforce compliance immediately thereafter. There will be no further discretionary extensions, nor any further direct communication from myself.

 

In addition to the above action I shall also make complaint to the Information Commissioner (if you haven't done this already) regarding yours and your organisation's abysmal performance in the exercise of its responsibilities under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

I look forward to receiving your response.

 

 

Yours faithfully

etc.

(cross-posted in my thread too, if Mods don't object)

 

Please let me know thoughts..

Mac

[lizzydripping1]

I wanted to introduce myself and hope this is the right thing

 

I've been told I may be better off joining this thread as I've got six years years in charges but have been promised another five (and hoping to hassle the Halifax until I get them) or with the help of the FOS from 12th July (as they have not complied with the Data Protection Act) - the Information Commissioners Office have been informed

[MacBoy]

Welcome Lizzy

 

You'll find pretty much the same crowd here as in Dusary's thread at the moment actually! Good luck with your claim and try and find the time to work through this thread from the beginning - I know it's long, but you don't have to do it all at once.

 

We're working on and discussing various strategies and you're more than welcome to join in! For more general discussion it might also be worth you starting your own thread in the Halifax forum if you haven't done so already.

[manilowfan]

I had an account with natwest about 9 years ago which was passed onto to moorcroft which I paid in full about 4 years ago, would I be able to claim back these charges. Who do I write too for my old statements, moorcroft who I paid or Natwest.

[Guest Battleaxe]

You will have to establish who actually owned the alleged debt, Moorcroft or Natwest?

 

It might have just been passed to Moorcroft for collection, if that was the case, you go after Natwest. If Moorcroft bought the debt, you go after them.

 

SAR Moorcroft and ask for everything including the Deed of Assignment and the Letter of Assignment. In the SAR ask them for all the statements, because they will have to get in touch with OC for these if they don't have them.

 

IUt wouldn't hurt to SAR Natwest at the same time asking for the Statements and a copy of the Letter of Assignment to Moorcroft if the sold the debt. try a two pronged atttack and you will eventually find out the true owner of the alleged debt.

 

if Moorcroft bought the debt and hide behind the Law of Property Act, it wont work because the CCA overrides the Law of Property Act in consumer issues.

[manilowfan]

Thanks for your help, I will try and give it ago but all sounds very complicated. Where do I find the template S.A.R. letter?

[Jeff2000]

Thanks for your help, I will try and give it ago but all sounds very complicated. Where do I find the template S.A.R. letter?

 

 

Hi manilowfan,

 

 

Try this!

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/96518-data-protection-act-subject.html

 

 

Best wishes, Jeff.

[lizzydripping1]

Good news -

 

I thought when I saw the pile from the postman. - 25 envelopes from the Halifax, all containing statements but when I looked they were statements from the same dates as those of the list of charges they had already sent me a few weeks ago ie. 2001 to 2007 not 1995 to 2001 as they promised and to which they checked and told me I was entitled to with the £10 cheque(I already knew this but I am not really sure if she did to be honest) .

 

I have all the information to send the Prelim letter from the beggining of 2001 to 2007 would you suggest I do this and see what I should do when I receive the statements from 1995 to 2001 as I am due to re-submit my complaint to the FOS on the 12th July and if I haven't had my statements or no joy with the Prelim letter, let them deal with it at the time or take instructions from them.

 

I would welcome anyones advice.

 

Halifax are obviously not doing their share in saving the plant when they are sending out so many duplicate statements and they must have so much extra money to burn that they can send out all these statements in different envelopes with a postage charge for each - postal workers may get a pay rise soon.

[Celicaman]

Lizzyd

If you intend to claim your pre 6 years charges, i would keep your claim intact with the post 6 yr charges.

If you claim pre 6 years on their own, it could be thrown out if the bank argue the limitations restictions. When it is together with post 6 years they cant apply to have claim struck out for limitations reasons as part of it is within those and the court wont break the claim up into seperate areas.

 

Celicaman

[groovycaz]

Hey wayne451

thanks for the information about the cooperative authorised borrowing rate, been away for a few days so cheers for that...GC

[lizzydripping1]

This is an ironical one.

 

No statements again this morning and when I phoned the Halifax the girl I spoke to said the usual - eight weeks, so I said the usual - let me speak to a manager or someone who is in some authority. When he come to the phone I told him that from the 3rd April I had been wanting and writing for my full banking history and all I had got since then was charges from 2001. He asked me my sort code and account no and told me that he would get the statements done as a matter of urgency but they had obviously been put into the wrong pile as most people want their charges as they can get their last six years only for free. He said it would be slower because HE WOULD NEED TO SENT UP AND THE RECORDS WOULD NEED TO BE PULLED OUT AND CHECKED AT THE BANK OF SCOTLANDS RECORD OFFICE - WHEN I TOLD HIM I WAS WITH THE HALIFAX HE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MORE APOLOGETIC (SO MUCH FOR THEM CHECKING AT THE TIME I WAS ON - HE WOULD HAVE KNOWN THEN).

[MacBoy]

The problem I find is around follow-up, You rarely if ever get to speak to the same person twice and it seems they rarely bother to update call notes on screen. Or am I just unlucky?

 

Good luck anyway, Lizzy..

[lizzydripping1]

No I do not think you are unlucky it is more likely that they are doing their best to avoid the issue