Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[InKogneeToh]

If I was to have proof, that a certain (unnamed) party has deliberately, attempted to mislead the Court. What do you think the Judge would do ???

 

Hi

 

I think this would depend really on the seriousness of the 'untruth' or whatever and most importantly what effect it has on the claimant's case or what prejudice it has caused.

 

Regards, Pam

[TideTurner]

BA, I'd rather you tickled my scales! Who wants to kiss an ugly blue fish?

[Guest Battleaxe]

I have kissed a lot of frogs, so what a blue fish or two? Tickling your scales Tide. Are you wanting to play games?

[TideTurner]

And I've tickled a few trout! Too many little Tide's to play any more - except for Deal or no Deal.

[TideTurner]

BA - I'd forgotten what that felt like you charmer, now I'm a jellyfish. Many thanks.

 

Tide

[tbern123]

I can't be to specific, as they have until 5pm to file their defence. However, it would appear that their is an untruth in their defence that is in relation to the foundation of claim.

 

It would also appear that they have not read all the rules, in relation to the contents of defence. There are 26 points to their defence and it would appear they have missed the main one

 

I will post all tomorrow night !!! Give the folks at Cabot something good to look forward to...

[Luce20]

hey tbern,

 

just been reading your threads - im new to all this. i have been arguing with abbey for well over 2 months now & have start court proceedings - received a letter saying they intend to defend the claim - its so much hard work! i'm praying they dont file one within 28 days so i'll win on default, somehow i dont think they're going to make it that easy for me.

 

it all looks so complicated what you're having to do...dont think ive got the brains for it!!

 

good luck

 

luce

[ODC]

I can't be to specific, as they have until 5pm to file their defence. However, it would appear that their is an untruth in their defence that is in relation to the foundation of claim.

 

It would also appear that they have not read all the rules, in relation to the contents of defence. There are 26 points to their defence and it would appear they have missed the main one

 

I will post all tomorrow night !!! Give the folks at Cabot something good to look forward to...

Im sure like the rest of us they will be glued to this thread.

[InKogneeToh]

hey tbern,

 

just been reading your threads - im new to all this. i have been arguing with abbey for well over 2 months now & have start court proceedings - received a letter saying they intend to defend the claim - its so much hard work! i'm praying they dont file one within 28 days so i'll win on default, somehow i dont think they're going to make it that easy for me.

 

it all looks so complicated what you're having to do...dont think ive got the brains for it!!

 

good luck

 

luce

 

Hi luce and welcome to CAG

 

I recommend you start a thread of your own in the Abbey section of the forum and give an outline of your situation and what point the claim has reached. Then you can ask for advice and I'm sure there will be lots of help forthcoming.

 

Regards, Pam

[Rhia]

Tbern...only just seen this thread. Don't know how I missed it but with the developments of the past week it's been moving at a terrific pace. Not too much I can comment on as I think it's all been said but just one thing. Who are UK Changes?

The whole case should collapse in your favour as they had absolutely no evidence to support their shoddy claims from day one. Look forward to the post 5pm deadline. But should you wait an extra day or so before posting just in case they manage to wangle their answers in overnight in some way?

[cleanslate]

hi new to this just found out via my credit record a name of kingshill iam paying cabot have you got a thread to a letter to send them to ask them to send me my agreement like you not happy two companys working the same way cheers good luvk with yours i will bewatching to see how you get on with them i have told cabot i will settle my old associates visa card £1400 by the end of the month reading your comments changed my mind also have you got the e/mail address of cabot chhers and good luck

[tbern123]

Exactly Rhia and that is the one thing they have not mentioned in their defence. As their defence had to be filed by close of play today, I will take a gamble and share, some of the things I have brought to the attention of the Judge.

 

I have confirmed to the Judge that Cabot have been unable to prove that a debt existed or if one did exist, which is not admitted, I am the debtor.

 

ok, now as per

 

 

 

The Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 Content of Defence (5) states;

 

(5)

Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), a defendant who fails to deal with an allegation shall be taken to admit that allegation.

 

 

Point One

The Defendant made no attempt to establish the validity of the alleged debt.

As the Defendant has failed to respond to point one of my claim, I assume that they admit that they made no attempt to establish the validity of the alleged debt. Further more, point 18 of their defence confirms that no actual documentation exists. Therefore, they have been unable to prove that a debt existed and even if, which is not admitted that a debt existed the Claimant was the debtor in this instance.

 

 

Point Two

Distress caused by letters and phone calls from Defendants, agents Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

The Defendant, has also failed to respond to point 2 of claim. I again assume that they admit that distress was caused by letters and phone calls from the Defendants appointed agents Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

 

 

Point Three

Defendant has been unable to provide evidence of the agreement by Claimant. As such is unable to establish that Claimants consent had been given to process his personal data (as defined by DPA 1998 and has committed an offence under the DPA 1988 (schedule 2. 1 The data subject has given his consent to the processing.)

This has been freely admitted by the Defendant in point 18 of their defence.

 

So far, they have admitted that they did not bother to investigate the validity of the debt and that their letters and telephone calls, caused me distress. They also admit that they are unable to prove that my authority was given. So we are now 3 for 3. The following points aren't so damaging.....

 

Point Four

Defendant has committed an offence/s under the CCA 1974 s77, s78 and s97, in relation to requests made by the Claimant for documentation.

 

 

The Defendant denies that they are the creditor for the purposes of the CCA 1974 and also deny receiving the statutory fee, for a request made under the CCA 1974. The CEO of Cabot Financial is Mr Ken Maynard, he is also the Chairman of the Debt Byers and Sellers Group, of which Cabot is a member. In a recent article in the Credit Online Magazine, Dr Roger Lucas of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group , states:

 

 

“Roger Lucas, of the Debt Buyers and Sellers Group, said: "When we take assignment of debts we stand in the place of the original creditor so it’s only right we should have the same obligations and rights."

 

In relation to the Defendants claim they they did not receive the statutory fee. I can confirm that I made my initial request via email on 8 September 2006, followed by a letter with a cheque for £3.00 enclosed. I am disappointed, but not surprised that the Defendant has waited until now (7 months following my request) to bring this to my attention.

 

Point Five

Defendant has committed an offence/s by the disclosure of personal data (as defined by the DPA 1998 to their appointed agent, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

 

 

The Defendant denies that they disclosed my personal data to their appointed agents, even though as confirmed by point 1 of their defence, it was the Defendant that purchased the account from HSBC.

Point Seven

Claimant seeks compensation and damages of £500. (compensation calculated using the Financial Ombudsman guidelines for awards for non-financial loss)

 

 

As complaints relating to the Defendant, now full within the remit of the Financial Ombudsman Service, they should be fully aware of the guidance that has been published.

 

This is where things get really interesting and I am able to prove that in their defence they have deliberately attempted to mislead the court, by stating facts that are untrue.

 

 

would also like to take this opportunity to inform the court that the defence filed by the Defendants, has been written to deliberately mislead the Court.

 

 

In response to point 2 of their defence, the Defendant is fully aware that their letter of 12th May 2006 does not say

1. HSBC's rights under the HSBC account had been assigned to the Defendant.
   

Their letter actually states:

 

The account you held with HSBC, was purchased by the Cabot Financial Group.

 

1. Kings Hill (No.1) Limited is the legal owner of the account, referenced overleaf.
   

 

1. (3)This letter acts as notice of the assignment of your account to Kings Hill (No.1) Limited and as such should be kept.
   

I have taken the liberty of highlighting the word account, as contrary to the Defence filed by the Defendant, there is no mention of debt, or assignment of rights.

 

The fact that the account and not only the rights were assigned, is also confirmed by point 3 of their defence. The letter from HSBC, also clearly states:

 

" I am writing to inform you that the above account was sold by HSBC Bank plc to Kings Hill No.1 Limited on 2 May 2006.

 

"This means that the effective owners of the above account are now Kings hill No.1 Limited"

 

The Defendant, also confirms in point 10 of their defence that the account has been reassigned to HSBC

 

Please note the use of the word account. There is no reference to a debt or the assignment of rights.

 

It would also appear that the Defendant has confused themselves with the Claimant. Please refer to point 26 of the defence. I have made a claim, against them for the distress they have caused me, not for the distress I have caused them.

 

In summary, I am able to establish that the defence that has been filed has not responded to my claim, thus they make admissions by default. I am also able to prove that contrary to the basis of their defence, their correspondance and that of HSBC both clearly refer to the account, not the debt and certainly not the rights.

 

I know that these may not sound that important, but to me it shows the lengths they are prepared to go to.

 

Can I take them to court for £10 ???

 

I sent them this email and as usual they have not bothered to respond.

 

I am not playing anymore. That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

I have just sent this email to every name I could find at Cabot, the Information Commissioners Office and to Kent Trading Standards.

 

 

----- Original Message ----- From: tbern123

To: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected]

Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected]

Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 5:39 PM

Subject: Urgent Response Required - Please do not ignore this email

 

8th April 2007

 

Mr Ken Maynard

Cabot Financial (UK) Limited

10 Kings Hill Avenue

Kings Hill

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4LT

 

 

Dear Mr Maynard

 

 

I am very disappointed that I am forced to write to you again, in relation to the conduct of your company. As you are fully aware on 28 January 2007, as per my rights under the Data Protection Act 1998, I made two Subject Access Requests. My first request was made to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited and my second request was made to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to refer you to the letter I received from your legal representatives Hodsons Solicitors, dated 20 February 2007. Mr Dean Spencer states:

 

“Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited is contracted to act as an agent for Cabot Financial (UK) Limited (formerly Kings Hill (No.1) Limited) Your subject access request sent to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited was passed to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited in order to process the request. We are instructed that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited does not hold any data to which relates to your request.”

 

He continues....

 

“For the avoidance of doubt we are instructed that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited does not hold any data about you. It is Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited that holds the data and therefore it will be that company which responds to any subject access requests directed to the Cabot Group.”

 

Following receipt of my Subject Access Request, cheque number 300064, payable to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited was presented for payment on 12 February 2007. As confirmed by Mr Dean Spencer, it is Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited that holds the data, so I can understand why this particular cheque was presented for payment.

 

You can imagine my surprise, to learn that Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd presented cheque number 300063 for payment on 3 April 2007. My letter of 28th January 2007, clearly states, that payment was in relation to a Subject Access Request. As Cabot Financial (UK) Limited were unable to fulfil my request can you please let me know why this cheque has now been presented for payment.

 

I cannot understand the completely unprofessional conduct of the Cabot Group of companies. I have already commenced legal proceedings against Cabot Financial (UK) Limited and I am in the process of making a formal complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, in relation to some of my other concerns. I would have thought that given the circumstances, you would have ensured that I would not have further cause to complain. Sadly this is not the case and I require your urgent response. I have taken the liberty of sending a copy of this email to the Information Commissioners Office and to Kent Trading Standards, both of which I will now be making formal complaints too.

 

Regards

 

 

Mr tbern123

CC Information Commissioners Office

Kent Trading Standards

[ODC]

Bet the candles will be burning late into the night in Cabot Towers. Can we expect some P45s to be issued. Well done Tbern.

[tbern123]

Thanks ODC, I know some people might have been hoping for something more explosive.. But I am really pleased with this... There are a couple of other little jems, that I am saving for my day in court, to catch out whoever they send...

[Rhia]

Tbern I have long been of the opinion that it is the word account that should be used and not debt when we deal with DCAs. The word debt implies that you are accepting you owe money when this may not be the case.

As you say it's not all fireworks and a symphony orchestra playing but the law will be decided on the various points. Useful info that if they don't respond they are deemed to admit the point.

BTW who is UK Changes?

[tbern123]

I presume, they are these people UK Changes - Consumer Data Cleansing and Suppression Solutions

[Rhia]

So has Cabot/Kings Hill been supplying this company with your personal data?

If so, how did you find out? The SAR?

[tbern123]

So has Cabot/Kings Hill been supplying this company with your personal data?

If so, how did you find out? The SAR?

 

Yeah, they disclosed this in my SAR and in their defence.. Not quite sure of the relationship between though...

[Rhia]

This is quite extraordinary. The DPA states quite clearly that any data should only be used for the purpose for which permission was given (that's if permission was given).

So this is my take on this. Account defaults. A DCA snaps up account (the rights but not the duties:rolleyes: ). That DCA then shares it (unlawfully)with a company who deal in mailing lists. This is very, very naughty indeed Tbern don't you think?

This brings me onto another interesting point which I am going to get to the bottom of. Has anyone worked out where all those sub prime credit companies get your details from to target with offers to remortgage etc.

I have been making enquiries here and everyone I have spoken to who has defaults or arrears of some description gets these mailers. However peeps I know who don't have such issues don't get them. As far as I can make out they aren't allowed to check with CRAs. So who is tipping them off?

Ah my file for the 5th Estate just gets better and better.

[tbern123]

This is a question, I can answer.

 

On some loan applications, there is a box that you can tick to say that if your application is unsuccessful you give your authority for company b to try to arrange finance.

 

Lots of banks, have lots on fingers in lots of pies

 

Also when you subscribe to magazines, in all honesty fill out any form, these days they are ask if they can share your data and ask you if you would like to hear about the latest offers.

 

Different companies try different tricks. With some you tick the box to say no, others you leave the box unticked to say no, You have to read the question very carefully

 

Bet the candles will be burning late into the night in Cabot Towers. Can we expect some P45s to be issued. Well done Tbern.

 

This is the crazy thing. All they have to do is settle my claims and I promise never to darken their door again.... I would glady never write or email them again.

[elizabeth1]

I am in the process of putting a pack together for the Judge, including copies of correspondance and copies of information from my SAR. This will show the "inconsistentcies" in their defence

 

Does anyone know, if I have to also send a copy to Cabot ?[/quote]

 

 

We are supposed to send a copy to the "otherside" as a polite gesture keeping it friendly ?? But - looks like nobody in this place reads so I wouldn't be too fussy about dealing fair with them - seems they don't play fair and honest with anyone else - court will forward a copy of this to them anyway!!

 

Thanks ODC, I know some people might have been hoping for something more explosive.. But I am really pleased with this... There are a couple of other little jems, that I am saving for my day in court, to catch out whoever they send...

 

 

Geez!!! Can I come and watch?? Wonder if Mr M will show up with his cheque book?? :-D

 

Seems like our friend Mr M needs to issue a few P45's and recruit some "smart" people for his team!!! :lol:

 

Yeah, they disclosed this in my SAR and in their defence.. Not quite sure of the relationship between though...

 

 

Mmmm!!!!!! must look for this!!!

 

This is quite extraordinary. The DPA states quite clearly that any data should only be used for the purpose for which permission was given (that's if permission was given).

So this is my take on this. Account defaults. A DCA snaps up account (the rights but not the duties:rolleyes: ). That DCA then shares it (unlawfully)with a company who deal in mailing lists. This is very, very naughty indeed Tbern don't you think?

This brings me onto another interesting point which I am going to get to the bottom of. Has anyone worked out where all those sub prime credit companies get your details from to target with offers to remortgage etc.

I have been making enquiries here and everyone I have spoken to who has defaults or arrears of some description gets these mailers. However peeps I know who don't have such issues don't get them. As far as I can make out they aren't allowed to check with CRAs. So who is tipping them off?

Ah my file for the 5th Estate just gets better and better.

 

 

Mmmm!!!! Me smells rats too!!! Must do some "homework"!!!!

[ODC]

This is the crazy thing. All they have to do is settle my claims and I promise never to darken their door again.... I would glady never write or email them again.

The point is if you had hired a lwyer to prepare this case for you how much would his/her costs have been. You are saving Ken and Co. This money. They should make some financial acknowledgement of this.

 

If I was them I would be standing at your door tomorrow with a large cheque.

[debt_mountain]

So has Cabot/Kings Hill been supplying this company with your personal data?

If so, how did you find out? The SAR?

They tend to send everyones data to this crowd if the account holder doesn't answer the phone. I have made the ICO aware and rasied a claim against them for ALL 7 of the external companies they have shared my data with.

 

Good job Tbern, lets see what the Judge makes of them apples.

 

If it does still proceed to court be ready for them trying to go down the mediation route. I am starting on that process and it will take some months before we make any further progress.

 

In the SAR cover letter with each of the accounts they have delt with in my name they state that the attatched info is in relation to the ACCOUNT xxxxx purchased from blah blah blah. So once more they are stating the account.

[Rhia]

Is this why they are trying delaying tactics in complying with SARs. One more nail in their various coffins. I honestly think theyw ill be lucky to keep their consumer credit licenses when all these chickens come home to roost.

(Welcome back DM...been on hols?)

[humbleman]

I honestly think theyw ill be lucky to keep their consumer credit licenses when all these chickens come home to roost.

(Welcome back DM...been on hols?)

Do they have a Credit Licence?

 

Since they always argue not being creditors.