Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[Deepthroat]

What a great thread..

 

Nearly 500 posts and nearly 8,500 views..

 

Keep going tbern123... We are all behind you on this one...

[scouser9]

Hiya Guys and Girls,

 

Nice to see the same people willing to help others ie tbern and elizabeth, debt mountain and the rest.

Just to say that I won my money back from halifax but only with all your help.

But thats not why I have jumped in here, today I recieved these 2 letters after sending a s.a.r request from Cabot and was wondering wether some is taking the pi&&** or what, their time is nearly up timescale wise. They have had their 12 days, and on the 16th they will have had their full calender month and I have stuck to the rules according to the C.A.G. guidelines and letters.

 

The letters read as follows first from Monument.

 

From Monument

23 January 2007

Dear Mr Scouser9

We hereby give notice of the assignment of the debt to us from you in respect of the balance £XXXXXX outstanding on your Providian National Bank Credit Card account,

On the 20th September 2005 your account was sold to Kings Hill (No1) Ltd, part of the

Cabot Financial Group.

Any further communication and payments must therefore be addressed to Cabot financial directly at the address below

Cabot

PO Box No 241

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4NA

Freephone: 0800 328 8338

Yours truly,

Mr Graham Taylor

 

 

Once again its sold to Kingshill and Cabot get involved, and secondly the letter I recieved from Cabot on the sameday.

 

 

From Cabot

30 January 2007

Dear Mr Scouser9

Further to your letter of 15th January 2007.

Unfortunately as we are not the originators of the above account we do not hold copy agreements or statements. This is why, as we advised you, the paperwork had to be ordered from Monument.

As assignee we deny that we are the creditor and as such, have not breached Section 189(1) or 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This company has at all times acted properly, appropriately and in accordance with all relevant laws and requlations.

We can confirm that as soon as the copy agreement and statements are received they will be forwarded to you.

We can also confirm that your telephone number has been removed from our dialler system and all future contact will be in writing.

Yours truly,

Emma Robertson

Customer Relations Deptmanet

Cabot

PO Box No 241

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4NA

Their time runs out on the 16th of Febuary and then they will in breach of the rules laid down for them.

I have a couple of questions guys.

1. If it has took Monument this long ( 20th September 2005) to now to send this letter does it mean that they cannot supply the documents requested with my S.A.R.

2. If my account was sold to Kings Hill what is Cabot doing handling my data. It seems by reading everyones argument with Cabot its the same as mine.

3, Last but not least what and where do now.

Sorry for butting in, I will also post the letter that I recieved from member of parliament as he complianed on my behalf to the OFT and the FSA, I have complained as well.

I have recieved a fob off letter from the FSA but nothing from the OFT except a cut and paste couple of pages from their website, ****e,

Anyway my member of parliament insists he going to chase everything up, and was very dissapointed that the OFT had not answered his letter and promise's to get back to me.

Anyway must go now as sleep beckons will post tomorrow

Keep on claiming the right and don't forget donate donate donate.

Mikey

[lookinforinfo]

Debt Mountain I suggest you keep the £10 in your pocket and point out to

the muppets what s7 [1][a] of the DPA actually states.

an individual is entitled

to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that

data controller.

and then in s.7 [1][c]

to have communicated to him in an intelligible form-

(i) the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and

(ii) any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data .

So, regardless of how many accounts you have with them, the £10 covers

them all.

[Deepthroat]

Hiya Guys and Girls,

 

Nice to see the same people willing to help others ie tbern and elizabeth, debt mountain and the rest.

Just to say that I won my money back from halifax but only with all your help.

But thats not why I have jumped in here, today I recieved these 2 letters after sending a s.a.r request from Cabot and was wondering wether some is taking the pi&&** or what, their time is nearly up timescale wise. They have had their 12 days, and on the 16th they will have had their full calender month and I have stuck to the rules according to the C.A.G. guidelines and letters.

 

The letters read as follows first from Monument.

 

From Monument

 

23 January 2007

 

Dear Mr Scouser9

 

We hereby give notice of the assignment of the debt to us from you in respect of the balance £XXXXXX outstanding on your Providian National Bank Credit Card account,

 

On the 20th September 2005 your account was sold to Kings Hill (No1) Ltd, part of the

Cabot Financial Group.

 

Any further communication and payments must therefore be addressed to Cabot financial directly at the address below

 

 

Cabot

PO Box No 241

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4NA

 

Freephone: 0800 328 8338

 

Yours truly,

 

Mr Graham Taylor

 

 

Once again its sold to Kingshill and Cabot get involved, and secondly the letter I recieved from Cabot on the sameday.

 

 

From Cabot

 

30 January 2007

 

Dear Mr Scouser9

 

Further to your letter of 15th January 2007.

 

 

Unfortunately as we are not the originators of the above account we do not hold copy agreements or statements. This is why, as we advised you, the paperwork had to be ordered from Monument.

 

As assignee we deny that we are the creditor and as such, have not breached Section 189(1) or 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This company has at all times acted properly, appropriately and in accordance with all relevant laws and requlations.

 

We can confirm that as soon as the copy agreement and statements are received they will be forwarded to you.

 

We can also confirm that your telephone number has been removed from our dialler system and all future contact will be in writing.

 

Yours truly,

Emma Robertson

 

Customer Relations Deptmanet

 

 

Cabot

PO Box No 241

West Malling

Kent

ME19 4NA

 

Their time runs out on the 16th of Febuary and then they will in breach of the rules laid down for them.

 

I have a couple of questions guys.

 

1. If it has took Monument this long ( 20th September 2005) to now to send this letter does it mean that they cannot supply the documents requested with my S.A.R.

 

2. If my account was sold to Kings Hill what is Cabot doing handling my data. It seems by reading everyones argument with Cabot its the same as mine.

 

3, Last but not least what and where do now.

 

Sorry for butting in, I will also post the letter that I recieved from member of parliament as he complianed on my behalf to the OFT and the FSA, I have complained as well.

I have recieved a fob off letter from the FSA but nothing from the OFT except a cut and paste couple of pages from their website, ****e,

 

Anyway my member of parliament insists he going to chase everything up, and was very dissapointed that the OFT had not answered his letter and promise's to get back to me.

 

Anyway must go now as sleep beckons will post tomorrow

Keep on claiming the right and don't forget donate donate donate.

 

Mikey

 

CAN PEOPLE PLEASE STOP TRYING TO HIJACK THIS THREAD !!!!!! PLEASE START YOUR OWN AND POST A LINK... IT IS VERY HARD TO FOLLOW WHEN PEOPLE KEEP INTERUPTING THE STORY... ok moan over

[scouser9]

Sorry guys I did say sorry and excuse me

 

Thanks

Mikey

 

and will do

[elizabeth1]

 

ROFLMAO!!!!

 

Aww!! I was going to donate a shed load of the "special shiney" paper to them!!! Recycled of course!!

[andrew1]

I sent an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to both cabot and kingshill. Got a reply today on the same lovely new cabot paper saying, thanks for the request (cabot) but as you had both joint accounts and single accounts with us we need a £10 from each of you.

 

Just chequed my bank and both the Kingshill and Cabot cheques have been cashed.

 

DM - if you issued cheques to both, why don't you ask you bank for the cheques back and you can see who banked them - that would be interesting.

[debt_mountain]

DM - if you issued cheques to both, why don't you ask you bank for the cheques back and you can see who banked them - that would be interesting.

damn fine idea. I have to go into the bank today anyway for another reason. thanks Andrew will let youze know what comes back.

[debt_mountain]

do you think they have BOT in the name for a reason?

[debt_mountain]

Debt Mountain I suggest you keep the £10 in your pocket and point out to

the muppets what s7 [1][a] of the Data Protection Act actually states.

an individual is entitled

to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that

data controller.

and then in s.7 [1][c]

to have communicated to him in an intelligible form-

(i) the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and

(ii) any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data .

So, regardless of how many accounts you have with them, the £10 covers

them all.

lookinforinfo

 

thanks for the info, not sure if my original message was a bit confusing but Me and Mrs DM have 1 account with Cabot, I have to in my name only and Mrs DM has 1 in her name only. Does this make a difference to the info you quoted. I think they may be correct in this instance...is that a first?

 

Thanks

[debt_mountain]

Spoke to a lovely lady (Hi Sarah if you are watching) in customer services (Have they always quoted the 01732 775436 number or is that new as opposed to the 0870 ££££££££ number they use to use.) anyway, she said that as I had sent £10 to each Cabot and Kingshill that these 2 payments cover the SAR fee as they are both within the Cabot Group.

 

So I have save tenner (or is it actually £20).

 

So I have faxed off a letter confirming this and that the original 40 timeline for each is still require, so 1 of them (Cabot) is due before we have our prelim meeting on 28th Feb.

 

this is getting to be more enjoyable by the day.

[andrew1]

Hey,? Isn't it against the DCA rules to use a premium rate telephone number to get we poor debtors to call on?

[debt_mountain]

Hey,? Isn't it against the DCA rules to use a premium rate telephone number to get we poor debtors to call on?

Thats why I pointed it out, is it that Cabot are starting to read these guidelines and actually comply with them? or is it just because these letters are from customer Services and they have a direct dial?

 

the last automated letter I got from Peter Anderson had 0845 0700 116 is that not just a national rate standard cost number?

 

sometimes they also quote an 0800 328 9911

 

Does anyone have a customer services email address for them? I know we can get Kens address from Tbern but I want a general email?

 

ta

[andrew1]

Thats why I pointed it out, is it that Cabot are starting to read these guidelines and actually comply with them? or is it just because these letters are from customer Services and they have a direct dial?

 

the last automated letter I got from Peter Anderson had 0845 07000 116 is that not just a national rate standard cost number?

 

sometimes they also quote an 0800 328 9911

 

Does anyone have a customer services email address for them? I know we can get Kens address from Tbern but I want a general email?

 

ta

 

Email: [email protected]

[debt_mountain]

Email: [email protected]

cheers andrew1 - scales clicked

[tbern123]

Spoke to a lovely lady (Hi Sarah if you are watching) in customer services (Have they always quoted the 01732 775436 number or is that new as opposed to the 0870 ££££££££ number they use to use.) anyway, she said that as I had sent £10 to each Cabot and Kingshill that these 2 payments cover the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) fee as they are both within the Cabot Group.

 

So I have save tenner (or is it actually £20).

 

So I have faxed off a letter confirming this and that the original 40 timeline for each is still require, so 1 of them (Cabot) is due before we have our prelim meeting on 28th Feb.

 

this is getting to be more enjoyable by the day.

 

They have not banked either of my two cheques yet....

[elizabeth1]

They have not banked either of my two cheques yet....

 

 

THEY NEVER BANKED OURS EITHER!!! (WE SENT TO MESSAGING SERVICES AND TO KINGS HILL No1)

[Guest jamesroberts]

I am hooked on this story, can't wait to hear how the court case goes!

[tbern123]

This may have been posted before but just in case it hasn't

This is a link for the OFT Debt Collection Guidance:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/50F06527-9FC5-4610-B385-999D6E2A8950/0/oft664.pdf

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

f. passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the debtors' informed prior consent

 

I am sure that people will be able to recognise the clear breach of these Guidelines by Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd when they passed everyones details onto Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. I know for a fact that my permission was not given and I have documented proof from them that they never even asked for my consent.

[elizabeth1]

I went to the first page of this document = "Communication" - do they have enough ROPE yet???

 

 

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

Communication

2.1 It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear,

inaccurate or misleading manner.

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. use of official looking documents intended or likely to mislead

debtors as to their status, for example, documents made to resemble court

claims.

b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it

creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors'

lack of knowledge

c. those contacting debtors not making clear who they are, who

they work for, what their role is, what the purpose of the

contact is

d. unnecessary and unhelpful use of legal and technical language, for

example, use of Latin phrases

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status

of debts, for example, not providing requested balance statements when

reasonably requested

f. contacting debtors at unreasonable times

g. ignoring or disregarding debtors' legitimate wishes in respect

of when and where to contact them, for example, shift workers who

ask not to be telephoned during certain times of the day

h. asking or instructing debtors to make contact on premium rate

telephone numbers

[PriorityOne]

Would you people please give me you views on the folowing thread in Legalities :

 

Need some urgent legal advice please !!

 

There seem to be some parallels with what has been going on with you, tbern... yet I am getting confllicting advice. Surely these people cannot get away with this ?

 

Thank you...

[tbern123]

Ok, I know that this is a complete waste of time, but today is Sunday and I had nothing better to do .

 

So, I have made a formal complaint to the Credit Services Association about both Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd and Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd. Yes I know Mr Maynard is a Counci Member and a Director and that he is also Chairman of the Debt Buyers & Sellers Group. I also know that the CSA won't do anything more then just fob me off.. But hey, what harm can it do ? Excuse the fonts.. The posts, don't seem to like CUT 'N' PASTE at the moment.

 

 

 

FORMAL NOTICE OF DISSATISFACTION

 

3rd February 2007

Credit Services Association

Wingrove House

Ponteland Road

Newcastle upon Tyne

NE5 3DP

 

Re: Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited & Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

It is with much disappointment, that I find myself having to bring your attention to a complaint I have made against the above named companies. As I am sure you are fully aware, not only is Mr Ken Maynard a Director and Council Member of the Credit Services Association and the Chairman of the Debt Buyers & Sellers Group, he is also the Chief Executive of these companies. Taking this into consideration, I am sure you will share my surprise and dismay that this companies have so clearly breached the Code of Practice of your association.

 

Further to the recent BBC Watchdog program, featuring your President Mr Godfrey Lancashire. I hope you treat my complaint seriously and not take into account Mr Maynard’s position in relation to your association and the Debt Buyers & Sellers Group.

 

Firstly, I would like to take this opportunity to give you a brief overview of my complaint. Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd acquired via a ‘Deed of Assignment’ an alleged debt, which through their self appointed agents Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd they have pursued me for repayment.

 

Cabot Ref: 1465790: This is an alleged HSBC account and was acquired by Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd on 2nd May 2006. However, despite repeated requests they have been unable to provide me with any documentation relating to this debt. Thus, they have been unable to prove that I am the debtor or that this debt actually exists.

 

To ensure that you fully understand my complaint, I will relate my concerns to your Code of Practice.

 

3. Legislation & Guidelines

a) Each member shall conduct its business lawfully, comply with all relevant UK legislation, regulation and judicial decisions and trade fairly and responsibly.

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd / Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd have committed an offence (s) under s77, 78 and 97 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As confirmed in a letter dated 29th September 2006, their ref: Isabel/1465790 from Ms Emma Robertson, Customer Relations Department, Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited. My initial request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 was made on 8th September 2006.

 

In a further letter from Ms Emma Robertson, dated 16th October 2006:

 

‘We are writing to advise you that to date, we have not received any information from HSBC relating to the above account.’

 

Finally, I received a letter from Ms Robertson, dated 18 December 2006 confirmed:

 

‘Unfortunately, HSBC Bank plc have been unable to provide us with copies of the request information and have therefore recalled your account. We can confirm that your account has subsequently been reassigned to HSBC plc.’

 

Furthermore, in an email dated 31st October 2006, I received from Ms Justine Horton, Team Leader, Customer Services Department, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd:

 

"Any requests for documentation under s77 and s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 still have to be forwarded to the originators and as a result it is very unlikely that the documentation can be provided within the prescribed period. Cabot is not being obstructive regarding this matter - we are reliant on the originators"

 

This statement clearly demonstrates the contempt and lack of understanding they have in relation to its obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to remind the you, of the content of the Consumer Credit Act in relation to s77, 78 and 97.

 

77. Duty to information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement.

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence

 

78. Duty to information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

97. Duty to give information

(1) The creditor under a regulated consumer credit agreement, within the prescribed period after he has received a request in writing to that effect from the debtor, shall give the debtor a statement in the prescribed form indicating, according to information to which is practical for him to refer, the amount of the payment required to discharge the debtor’s indebtedness under the agreement, together with the prescribed particulars showing how the amount is arrived at.

(3) If the creditor fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence

 

Data Protection Act 1988

Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd processed personal data relating to the myself, as defined by the Data Protection Act 1988, without my permission or knowledge. Furthermore they also disclosed my personal data, as defined by the Data Protection Act 1988, to their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, again without my permission of knowledge.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to refer the court to an email dated 31st October 2006, I received from Ms Justine Horton, Team Leader, Customer Services Department, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd:

 

"When purchasing accounts we are not supplied with any documentation (i.e. copy agreements or statements of account) and therefore any requests for such have to be forwarded to the originators to be retrieved from their archives - as I am sure you can appreciate this can be a lengthy process"

 

As confirmed by Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, when they purchase accounts they are not supplied with any documentation. On this basis, I am unable to ascertain why Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd assumed they were permitted to process and disclose my personal data.

 

I can confirm that Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd and Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd are registered separately, with the Information Commissioner’s Office as Data Controller’s.

 

On the 5th September 2002, Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd registered with the Information Commissioner’s Office as a Data Controller. Their Data Protection Register, reference is Z7064593 On the 26th April 2001, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd registered with the Information Commissioner’s Office as a Data Controller. Their Data Protection Register, reference is Z5415234.

 

Data Protection Act 1988

 

PART I

PRELIMINARY Basic interpretative provisions. 1. - (1) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires-

 

"data controller" means, subject to subsection (4), a person who (either alone or jointly or in common with other persons) determines the purposes for which and the manner in which any personal data are, or are to be, processed;

 

"personal data" means data which relate to a living individual who can be identified-

 

Fair Processing Notice

 

As clearly stated on the Information Commissioner’s Office own website

ICO – Information Commissioner's Office :

 

Q: What do I need to put in my fair processing notice, which is given to individuals before I process their information?

 

You will need to outline what and how information is going to be processed. This is to make sure the individual knows exactly what is going to happen to their information and how it is going to be used. You shouldn't be doing anything with personal information unless the individual is made aware.

 

I can confirm that I have never received a Fair Processing Notice from either company or Data Controller.

 

3. Legislation & Guidelines

b) Each member shall also comply with Debt Collection Guidance as published by the Office of Fair Trading from time to time.

 

2 UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

2.1 It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner.

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

Communication

e. failing to provide debtors or creditors with information on status of debts, e.g.

not providing requested balance statements when reasonably requested.

 

As previously mention both Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd and Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, have been unable to provide me with any documentation, relating to this alleged debt

 

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

i. disclosing or threatening to disclose debt details to third parties unless legally entitled to do so

 

Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd have disclosed my personal data to Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. Contrary to their belief they are the same company, I can confirm that they are each registered separately with Companies House. Furthermore, which I find more worrying is that they are also registered with the Information Commissioners Office as separate Data Controllers.

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

f. passing on debtor details to debt management companies without the debtors'informed prior consent

 

I can confirm that my consent has never been requested, let alone given for Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd to pass my details onto Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

 

4. Debt Collection & Default Guidelines

L) Take all possible steps to verify that the person being pursued, is in fact, the debtor.

As previously mentioned and confirmed in Correspondence from Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. When they purchase a debt, they do not receive any documention from the original creditor. As this is the case, how can they verify who is the debtor ?

 

7. Complaints

IV. Complainants must be advised that one of the remedies is referral of the complaint to the Association where appropriate.

 

I have never been informed that I can refer my complaint to the CSA.

 

I have brought these breaches of your Code of Practice to your attention. I have also clearly demonstrated that the law has been broken and the guidelines of the Office of Fair Trading have not been followed.

 

I trust you will take my concerns very seriously and investigate them thoroughly. I look forward to your comprehensive response to complaint.

 

regards

 

tbern123

[Seahorse]

If all it does is make their eyes go squinty, it'll have made my day.

 

Now, where did I put my specs?

 

Seahorse

[elizabeth1]

Tbern,

we really ought to donate "that paper" to them!! Sure looks like they'll need it soon?

[tbern123]

Tbern,

we really ought to donate "that paper" to them!! Sure looks like they'll need it soon?

 

lol:D

 

The only thing they are going to get from me is sweet FA ! (not talking fanny adams either)