Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[tbern123]

Kingshill No1 registered a default on my account last year. I have cca the orignal card issuer (Cap One) but not heard anything back. I have recently read on a thread that if the DCA has purchased the debt then you have to go after them for the default removal (I have issued the NI for charges and default removal to Cap One but now wonder if it will be of any use if Kingshill have put the default on). What I wanted to know is can I still issue a cca against Kingshill or will they now have the default on my credit report under Cabot? Very confusing.

 

If Kings Hill (No.1) put the default on your file you can still send them a CCA, just use their new name. I have already started one claim against them and number 2 will be started in the next two weeks.. Just waiting on some more info

[Guest The Terminator]

http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/2002/20020040.html#188

 

 

You only need to read Part 6 it say's it all

 

Enterprise Act(2002)

[louiboy]

On the Cabot Financial (dot) com website the site clearly identifies it's self as belonging to Cabot Financial Group. An individual limited company. CABOT FINANCIAL GROUP LIMITED Company No. 05754978 However when you use the contact link it provides the address of a different limited company. CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED Company No. 03439445.

Became curious used to prepare international company docs for the bigger boys. Thought something was missing. Didn't think much until (?) The companies act!

 

New company registration legislation (nearly rhymes) Outlaw

 

It's always good practice to display your company's registration details on your website and business email, but now it's the law. Yes, that's right - it's the law.

 

The First Company Law Amendment Directive came in on 1 January 2007, and you're now required to put the following information on your website and business emails:

 

* Company registration number

* Place of registration

* Registered office address

 

You're also required to have the following information on your website:

 

* The name, postal address and email address of the website's service provider.

* The name of any trade bodies or professional associations that the business is part of, including membership or registration details.

* Your VAT number, even if the website is not being used for e-commerce transactions.

* Any prices on the website must clearly state whether they are inclusive or exclusive of tax and delivery costs .

So even the website is misleading: no registration number, wrong office address etc. By contacting Cabot Group you would be providing information to a separate Ltd Company.

[tbern123]

So even the website is misleading: no registration number, wrong office address etc. By contacting Cabot Group you would be providing information to a separate Ltd Company.

 

Hello Louiboy..

 

If you check with companies house you will find that both companies actually have the same address i.e.

10 KINGS HILL AVENUE

KINGS HILL

WEST MALLING

KENT ME19 4LT

 

And also sorry but

 

Quote:

It's always good practice to display your company's registration details on your website and business email, but now it's the law. Yes, that's right - it's the law.

 

The First Company Law Amendment Directive came in on 1 January 2007, and you're now required to put the following information on your website and business emails:

 

* Company registration number

* Place of registration

* Registered office address

 

You're also required to have the following information on your website:

 

* The name, postal address and email address of the website's service provider.

* The name of any trade bodies or professional associations that the business is part of, including membership or registration details.

* Your VAT number, even if the website is not being used for e-commerce transactions.

* Any prices on the website must clearly state whether they are inclusive or exclusive of tax and delivery costs .

 

 

Cabot Financial Group

[tbern123]

You are right though, by contacting them you would be disclosing information to the wrong company.

 

The owner of the debt is usally Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd (previously called Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd)

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd are their self appointed agents

[lookinforinfo]

I may be wrong, Tbern, but I think what loiuboy was indicating was that by

exchanging companies, Cabot and Kingshill are able to a produce an argument

as to how each company is able to process your data. They have muddied

the waters. You have given information and maybe permissions to both

companies in the past. Now that they have exchanged company names

they will claim that they have the right to have access to your data as Cabot

before and as Kingshill now, or as Kingshill before and Cabot now.

 

And if you continue to correspond with Cabot, that was Kingshill, then that

act of yours is confirmation that they have the right to access your data

from whichever company because you have accepted the change in status

of both companies.

 

I accept that these matters are not retrospective, but the whole situation

of who owns who, and who is who, has become so complicated that they may

feel that we and the Courts will be unable to work it out. And thus, they

hope, they may be able to extricate themselves without as much censure

from the Courts.

[Deepthroat]

I may be wrong, Tbern, but I think what loiuboy was indicating was that by exchanging companies, Cabot and Kingshill are able to a produce an argument as to how each company is able to process your data. They have muddied the waters. You have given information and maybe permissions to both companies in the past. Now that they have exchanged company names they will claim that they have the right to have access to your data as Cabot before and as Kingshill now, or as Kingshill before and Cabot now..

 

From what I have read, they have only changed names, not companies.

The transfer of names, does not mean that their rights to process your data has also been transfered.

 

And if you continue to correspond with Cabot, that was Kingshill, then that act of yours is confirmation that they have the right to access your data from whichever company because you have accepted the change in status of both companies.

 

Even if, due to the change of names, you corresponded with the wrong company, it would not be possible for them to accept this as your authority for them to process your data

 

I accept that these matters are not retrospective, but the whole situation of who owns who, and who is who, has become so complicated that they may feel that we and the Courts will be unable to work it out. And thus, they hope, they may be able to extricate themselves without as much censure from the Courts.

 

If that is the case, tbern has blown that idea a part by showing the new and previous names of each company. Oh I hope they wasted alot of money thinking that one up.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Well done tbern.... You have given people like me hope.

[louiboy]

OOps! missed the small print on the "all you need to know page"

 

Incidentally that domain is registered to Cabot Financial (UK) (previously dormant) and has been since 16th February 1999 due for renewal soon. Looks like 3 companies are sharing the same website. The mail from the .co.uk Cabot Financial (Europe) site goes back to the .com domain.

 

The proper Group Address is in small print and the address on the contact page in large print is for Cabot Financial (Europe) both different companies registered at the same address.

 

It is misleading and does have an implication for the data protection act.

[tbern123]

Thanks Deepthroat...

 

You can't knock lookinforinfo though..

 

(sorry lookinforinfo) All his (as I am a sexist pig) make me think and have always been a good source of info..

 

Anyway, just wanted to say thank you for clicking on my scales, always a pleasure.

 

I think the secret is not to treat this to seriously and don't let them get to you.

 

Well, I am tired and I have to get up early... So night everyone

[tbern123]

Incidentally that domain is registered to Cabot Financial (UK) (previously dormant) and has been since 16th February 1999 .

 

Now that is interesting, I would if the web host has just updated their records or it was the old Cabot Financial (Uk) ????

 

On a seperate note, I know that quite a few people are following and reading this thread. Can you please sign this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/61524-baliff-petition-stop-them.html

 

Thanks

[louiboy]

Last change in the registery I can find is 31st Dec 2001. That was the first day Cabot put up a holding page for a website.

 

Wayback Machine

 

It's due for renewal on the 17th Feb. Worth a look to see who renews it. Should update around then.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi all

 

I have been following this thread with great interest. I just looked on the cabot website out of curiosity and found this gem amongst their client info:

 

Collections Approach

top ^

Integrity is pivotal to our business approach. As a class-leader in collection services, you can therefore be confident and rely on us as our ethics and compliance processes are second to none.

 

 

???????????????????????

 

Regards, Pam

[debt_mountain]

If Kings Hill (No.1) put the default on your file you can still send them a CCA, just use their new name. I have already started one claim against them and number 2 will be started in the next two weeks.. Just waiting on some more info

Surely if Kingshill or whoever they are, are recorded on the credit file then they are the ones you need to chase at the moment (Not the new company name), until the hugh machine that is cabot start changing all that info?

 

What will actually happen, Kingshill No 1 are still (Just checked) lodging the CRA info, the company number for Kingshill has changed, so I guess CRAs will see nothing different?

 

I feel another fax to Mr Judge to forewarn them of this additional new twist. Just like keeping Mr Judge aware of the situation.

[debt_mountain]

The owner of the debt is usally Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd (previously called Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd)

Does anyone know how long (if atall) they have to inform us their "customers" that we now have a new owner?

[Rhia]

I am still wondering about this angle. (Yep I know Andrew1 you say it does and I respect your knowledge as you know) but if Kings Hill No1 has registered a default or started court proceedings under that name it is still under that name. There is no requirement to add the company number to either activity. So, for instance, if someone gets to court and the action is brought by King's Hill No 1 they will have a bit of explaining to do to the judge as to why they have suddenly changed names, particularly when the issue of them using different company names to create a smokescreen is in clear debate.

[andrew1]

Does anyone know how long (if atall) they have to inform us their "customers" that we now have a new owner?

 

DM you are missing the point I think... there is no 'new owner' the company has just changed hats - it's the same body. A company is born and given a registration number. Most companies start their lives as ' off the shelf' companies. These are set up by people sitting at a desk thinking up every conceivable name imaginable, I've seen them, people just dreaming up names to make a new ' body'. That then is its' first name. People then come along and buy that company ' off the shelf' and change the name to suit themselves. That company might change its name 3 or 4 times throughout its lifetime but the BODY and number remains the same just like your National Insurance number. You might have a sex change, a face transplant or no end of other changes throughout your life but your NI number remains the same. Thats what has happend to Kingshill No1 or Kings HILL no 1 and Cabot Financial UK Ltd - they just swapped faces so the debt and default registered in Kingshill name which is now Cabot Financial UK Ltd are one of the same number. Get it?

[andrew1]

I am still wondering about this angle. (Yep I know Andrew1 you say it does and I respect your knowledge as you know) but if Kings Hill No1 has registered a default or started court proceedings under that name it is still under that name. There is no requirement to add the company number to either activity. So, for instance, if someone gets to court and the action is brought by King's Hill No 1 they will have a bit of explaining to do to the judge as to why they have suddenly changed names, particularly when the issue of them using different company names to create a smokescreen is in clear debate.

 

No Rhia, what you would say is " The company now known as Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd - formerly known as Kingshill No 1 Ltd which changed its name on ...........registered at companies house as No ....... registered a default on my account etc....

[debt_mountain]

Andrew1

 

It is confusing for us (me) non financial engineering types but

 

If Kingshill have registered my Default before Jan 15th (the co house ref is not mentioed by the CRA in my file), and the Kingshill change name to Cabot then surely the data kingshill was sharing about me with CRAs now needs to be changed the new name Cabot ?

 

By the way how did you find out about my sex change? Is that available on line too.

 

I am so looking forward to my CSC with Hodsons (or their rep).....

[andrew1]

Andrew1

 

It is confusing for us (me) non financial engineering types but

 

If Kingshill have registered my Default before Jan 15th (the co house ref is not mentioed by the CRA in my file), and the Kingshill change name to Cabot then surely the data kingshill was sharing about me with CRAs now needs to be changed the new name Cabot ?

 

By the way how did you find out about my sex change? Is that available on line too.

 

I am so looking forward to my CSC with Hodsons (or their rep).....

 

 

It is confusing DM that's the whole trouble with Cabot, but although some of it just appears from a business point of veiw to make commercial sense ie keeping most of the core business carrying the Cabot name somewhere in the title ( what the hell does Kingshill mean anyway?) Cabot Rogues, Cabot Harrasers, Cabot DCA, Cabot credit reference checks, Cabot this, Cabot that, it gives a good corporate image ( if you can call it good!) I can actually understand why they might use one of their dormant company 'Cabot' names to change the kingshill bit over. They are obviously going through transition, especially after the takeover and for all our jesting the directors will have direction now from the new owners and they are astute businessmen take no fear of that. Maynard included. They have previously had a very mixed bag of tricks they were allowed to get away with, and I know the credit industry well and these guys are as sharpe as razors - their image has always been similar to the old second hand car dealer but it is big business and as time has moved on they have had to reshape their image and start to fall in line with new laws. I honestly believe they had the shock of their lives when CAG appeared on the scene. Never have they been put on their heals and made to run - they were used to being the bullies and getting away with it, but now they have been truely shocked at what has turned on them and just like the banks were not ready for the onslaught of charges reclaiming, so too have the DCA been given one hell of a jolt to which they have had to readjust. That is what we are seeing here. As well as Cabot being taken over they are trying to bring back into the fold their rogue companies and we are faster than them and exposing it faster than they can change it.

 

As for your data, they havent given it to anyone else specifically on the Kingshill No1 Ltd / Cabot Financial UK Ltd name swap it is still with the company number. Just think 'Registered number' not name and it might fall into place a little easier.

 

What tbern and others are exposing is all the things they have been getting away with for years, but these will be put right in the fulness of time after they have paid out a few people for doing it wrong for so long and getting their knuckles wrapped by Information Commissioner and Trading Standards - but believe me there will always be this kind of debt and there will always be the Cabots of this world making megga bucks out of it. I would also imagine that Cabot will become a good outfit ( please god forgive me for saying this ) to work for as an employer as they get their act together.They have strong leadership and sharpe business minds. It's not the kind of business I particularly like, but as I say, they will always be with us whilst this country suffers from over lending, buy today - pay tomorrow and unlawful practices still operating within the lending industry - there's always a victim. So long as the likes of CAG are around the practices they preach will be bought into line and hopefully we will have in the long run a cleaned up financial services business and less debt to contend with. That comes with sheer grit, determination, effective regulatory bodies ( and I mean EFFECTIVE) proper financial education for our kids and common sense.

 

nuff said unless you really want me to tell you how I found out about your sex change !

[Rhia]

That was a magnificent summing up Andrew1. I have thought that we should all stand in the next election under the CAG banner (seriously)and that was one helluva maiden speech.

 

P.S. DM's sex change was spposed to be a secret but he's now posting under LadyBoy - location Brazil.

[andrew1]

... and if I'm not boring you all too much with this.... it also is good business practice in keeping your trading ' in-house'. Like setting up other companies which appear to be owned by others ( estate agents do it all the time - all these boards outside peoples houses being sold - check who actually owns them all - often the same people own 2 or 3 agents who all compete for the same business. The punter thinks it's choice!) It just looks like comeptition - it 's not, its good business - you have a choice ( well, not with dca's you don't) but the owner wins which ever company you use - could he care which one you go to?

 

In the past banks have passed debts from one to another dca - if Mr Maynard owns 3 out of 5 he couldn't care which one they choose he wins anyway, so the likes of the Messeging Service and Financial Collections & Recoveries are just good business practice, keeping the profits whichever way they go or come from. Their trouble has come from breaches in Data Protection Act issues passing our data about and the other lax controls internally by staff - that can be put right with training. We are winning the fight to bring them into line - no question about it, but it'll take a while although they know exactly what we are doing and have probably already worked out how much they'll be paying out in compensation and fines and making provision in their accounts for it - believe me they won't be worried about it, not with their turnover. Just like the banks - maybe paid out £10 - £15 million so far in returned charges - on a profit of £4 billion a year? - who's laughing at who?

[Rhia]

What really concerns me is the love of greed and the lack of morality with people who own and work for these organisations. To exploit the misery and ill fortune of people who don't have a lot to start with is just the absolute pits. It's a pity they don't use these sharp business minds to do something to benefit mankind. I really am a great believer in karma and one of these days something's gonna get them.

[Seminole]

I really am a great believer in karma and one of these days something's gonna get them.

 

Yes, it's called the Consumer Action Group

[andrew1]

How did the day off go Seminole and the phone calls?...

 

 

You are right Rhia, what would you think of Cabot if they had a debt counselling service which, from their profits they took people in and gave them financial advice to get their debt out of their lives? There are charities who have debt help lines but they are stretched to the limits. A £million or two from the Dca's would make one hell of a difference and then maybe some kind of debt AVOIDANCE workshop & training school - Actually, there's an idea for CAG - maybe???? ....ermm... I'll think on that one.... watch this space.

 

I wonder if Ken Maynard would sponser tbern to run it?

[andrew1]

What really concerns me is the love of greed and the lack of morality with people who own and work for these organisations. To exploit the misery and ill fortune of people who don't have a lot to start with is just the absolute pits. It's a pity they don't use these sharp business minds to do something to benefit mankind. I really am a great believer in karma and one of these days something's gonna get them.

 

Actually Rhia, if you really think about it - Cabot and the DCA's make their money not out of you and I, not our misery but out of the difference between what the banks sell the debts for and what they can retreive from us for that debt. We, in our misery actually owe the money to someone and ought to be paying it back. The misery is caused by the original lender who charge high rates of interest. The dca's, yes do take advantage by adding amounts they ought not to and by using threatening behaviour to scare us, but the laws should take care of that, but in the main the dca's are making their money from a business opportunity just like you might buy something at one price and sell it on ebay at a profit and more than you paid for it. ( What have I had in my tea this morning - I sound a reformed dca lover? )

 

It's hard to see it that way but that's the truth of it IMHO.