Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[tifo]

 

Personal Data

 

12 We may use and share your information with other members of the Group to help us and them:

• assess financial and insurance risks;
  
• recover debt;
  
• develop customer relationships, services and systems;
  
• prevent and detect crime;

Your information includes information about your transactions.

 

We do not disclose your information to anyone outside the Group except:

• where we have your permission; or
  
• where we are required or permitted to do so by law; or
  
• to other companies who provide a service to us or you
  
• where we may transfer rights and obligations under this agreement.

From time to time we may change the way we use your information. Where we believe you may not reasonably expect such a change we shall write to you. If you do not object to the change within 60 days, you consent to that change.

 

In that case why are they passing data without permission.So when a debt is passed over they are breaking their own T&C

 

If you would like a copy of the information we hold about you, please write to: The Royal Bank of Scotland plc, 36 St Andrew Square, Edinburgh,EH2 2YB. A fee may be payable.

 

'where we may transfer rights and obligations under this agreement.'

this is when they sell the debt to a DCA so can pass on your personal info?

 

i assume so ....

[PriorityOne]

 

 

We do not disclose your information to anyone outside the Group except:

• where we have your permission; or
  
• where we are required or permitted to do so by law; or
  
• to other companies who provide a service to us or you
  
• where we may transfer rights and obligations under this agreement.

 

Is it possible that they could wriggle out of things by using bullet point 3 ?

[andrew1]

No, hang on here. This document is originated from RBS or the original creditor

 

Kingshill No1 Ltd buy the debt, only they could be included in this statement, Nobody gave Kingshill No1 Ltd the right to transfer data TO ANYONE. not even to their sister - Cabot Financial (Europe )Ltd

 

There has been some recent postings suggesting Cabot Financial xxxxx? have bought the debts in which case it would be that company and not Kingshill. but for all the older accounts you can guarantee it is Kingshill No1 Ltd.

[PriorityOne]

... but could they still argue that these other companies are providing a debt collection service... in the bullet point (3) above ?

[andrew1]

... but could they still argue that these other companies are providing a debt collection service... in the bullet point (3) above ?

 

Yes, but we are talking about the original creditor RBS and the debt being sold to one company -kingshill no1 ltd. They can only sell it to one company and pass your data on to one. Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd are, if you think about it the 'third' party once removed and Kingshill No1 Ltd have no right to pass it onto anyone without Your permission.

[tbern123]

'where we may transfer rights and obligations under this agreement.'

this is when they sell the debt to a DCA so can pass on your personal info?

 

i assume so ....

 

lol, this is what Kings Hill must have assumed. BUT and boy this is a BIG BUT. According to the ICO, BEFORE your personal data is processed, by a new company you should be sent a fair processing notice,. Now.... Kings Hill have never sent anything to anyone

[andrew1]

lol, this is what Kings Hill must have assumed. BUT and boy this is a BIG BUT. According to the Information Commissioners Office, BEFORE your personal data is processed, by a new company you should be sent a fair processing notice,. Now.... Kings Hill have never sent anything to anyone

 

They wouldn't know what one was!

[tbern123]

Everything seems to be happening at the same time. Finally had a response from the Information Commissioners Office today.... I need to get back to them though for further clarification.

 

25th January 2007

 

 

Case Reference Number ENQ0140575

 

 

Dear tbern123

 

Thank you for your E mails of the 3rd and 18th of November 2006 regarding your dealings with two financial companies. Please accept my apologies for the delay in providing you with a substantive response; this is due to increased volumes of correspondence being received by the team which deals with finance based queries.

 

You ask whether Kingshill (No1) Ltd can transfer information about you with Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd without your prior consent. You state that Kingshill have purchased an alleged debt and without providing notification or seeking consent, they have supplied the information to Cabot. You wish to know if this practice complies with the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

In general terms, it depends on the reasons why the companies have decided to share this information. It may be the case that the alleged debt has been sold on from one company to another as both companies deal with debt management/administration. As far as fair processing information is concerned, the initial lender should provide individuals with this information when they sign a credit agreement or contract.

(Doesn't really answer my question , but I will email them back, really looking for a yes or no answer)

 

According to our internal database, Kingshill and Cabot are two separate data controllers for the purposes of the Act. As such, if you made a request to one company for the personal data they held about you, it would seem unusual if the information in question was provided by the other company.

 

I hope this response is useful and helps to clarify the issues you have raised with our Office based on the information provided.

 

Yours sincerely

[tbern123]

According to our internal database, Kingshill and Cabot are two separate data controllers for the purposes of the Act. As such, if you made a request to one company for the personal data they held about you, it would seem unusual if the information in question was provided by the other company.

 

I know, we all knew this already, but it is nice to get official confirmation. Now this is where things can get really fun.

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, is a client of the CRA's and Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd have been registering defaults on behalf of and in the name of Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd

 

Can't wait to see Kings Hill headed paper.....

[andrew1]

I know, we all knew this already, but it is nice to get official confirmation. Now this is where things can get really fun.

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, is a client of the CRA's and Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd have been registering defaults on behalf of and in the name of Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd

 

Can't wait to see Kings Hill headed paper.....

 

tbern, just remember something I posted a while back. When I telephoned Experian & Equifax, both had different clients one said Cabot the other Kingshill ( can't remember which ones though now - it's the grey matter failing me!) you might like to try them for yourself.

 

From the jist of their letter to you, it appears that they are assuming Kingshill gave you the credit in the first place and passed your data to Cabot which is not the point here. Make sure you clarify who gave the credit in the first place, who Kingshill are and who Cabot are.....(as if I need to tell you) sorry I don't mean to be patronising - you know more than most on here

[tbern123]

Thanks Andrew1, I have emailed them back and outlined the circumstances.

 

I have only been dealing with Experian. I previously asked them to remove the default, but they came back and said that Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd (their client) would not agree at this time.

 

Before anyone says it, I know I should have SAR Kings Hill already, but I didn't really feel the need. I am going to do it tonight and send the a copy of the email from the ICO...

[elizabeth1]

Well when Hodsons filed their court claim against hubby - they filed on behalf of Kingshill No1 - who the the people who are writing to the CRA's about default etc.. every month since 2002. So we sent CCA & SAR to Kings Hill and Cabot's

 

Today we got a pack of stuff from Cabot's (for two card account's and in the covering letter they say they are relying on the original card companies for the CCA's & it's unlikely they can get them in 12 days!!! (this was a request made early December 2006 they have already had 12 + 30 days) Should they be taking this to court while no paperwork supporting their claims exists?? And should it be Cabot's sending info rather than Kingshill?? Seems they are a little muddled in West Malling??

 

At the front of this bundle was all the stuff we'd sent to court - (we'd sent court copies of requests made for the SAR & CCA's etc.. showing court we were relying on Kingshill for data relating to the said claims etc..) - then there were a bundle of letters all dated 9th January 2007 - these we'd never seen before!! Then what looks like some sort of payment plan type of thing relating to an installment plan leading up to 2011 - we are in arrears apparently!! Oh!! and there were loads of pages showing all the annoying phonecalls they made too!! But don't display where calls came from!!

 

Give them enough rope ???

[andrew1]

Cabot have no right to take money off you at all. Kingshill maybe but not Cabot.

[stan5131]

I find it really annoying that the Information Commissioners Office appear to be sitting on the fence. No response like, "yes this is not normal practice and we are investigating"!!!! just "well.... suppose so, but what do you want us to do about it"?

 

Whats the point in having rules and regulations set in place when they mean nothing at all.

 

Sorry to be having a rant on your thread but it just p*sses me off!

[Rhia]

Am working out my papers for OFT so they will be getting a second hit for the same company (ies?) and there may be well be others we aren't aware of. Tbern your trailblazing is insiprational.

[elizabeth1]

I sent my complaint to Andy Lowther last week - I haven't had a reply yet - but I am sure they are very busy with many complaints to look at!!

[debt_mountain]

time.

 

Before anyone says it, I know I should have S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Kings Hill already, but I didn't really feel the need. I am going to do it tonight and send the a copy of the email from the Information Commissioners Office...

Tbern, I was the same as you. I only did this last week. But I did Cabot not Kingshill. Cabot should not have any info on me as they don't have my permission. I will also do Kingshill today to see what comes back. The cheque has been cashed. Wonder what headed paper will be used for the reply, assuming we get one?

 

Nice reply from the Information Commissioners Office, shame it wasn't the yes/no we all want to see in black and white, but great job..

[Rhia]

When I did that they cashed just one cheque (for Cabot) and sent the Kings Hill one back as said it had already been paid. Has anyone CCA'd the Message Service in Rugby. Be interesting to see what response you get from them? It just gets more and more tangled.

[elizabeth1]

Well - I just opened a letter and we got a 10 quid cheque back off Cabot's for the SAR we paid for by postal order back in December!! ;etter clearly says it is a refund.

 

We did send cheques for SAR to King's Hill No1 and to the Messaging services too - but we've not heard anything back yet

[Seminole]

Question: If you SARN a Data Controller and they have no data to provide, is there a requirement that they should refund the £10 or are they allowed to keep it?

[elizabeth1]

Seminole - I would think that's how it would work - they'd refund the money if they couldn't supply data.

 

For ourselves this could very well be why they refunded our money as what they sent doesn't in any way fit as any SAR cause there is no statements from the original lender etc.. all there is - is info that CABOT's had themselves and their letters all dated 9th January 2007. So that could very well be the answer why they refunded the 10 POUNDS !!!!

[tbern123]

Ok sent this to the Information Commissioners Office last night:

 

Dear Mr Information Commissioners Office

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query. Would it be possible for me to ask for further clarification.

 

I appreciate that Kings Hill, purchased the debt and as per the terms of the original agreement, may have my authority to process my data. However, they are still the legal owner of the debt. Taking this into consideration, are they allowed under the Data Protection Act, to disclose my personal data to Cabot and for Cabot to then start processing my personal data.

 

Regards

 

tbern123

 

I thought that this was a straight forward question..

 

Nope, I was wrong... Or are they hinting at something and just not saying it ?

 

26th January 2007

 

 

Case Reference Number ENQ0140575

 

 

Dear Mr tbern123

 

Thank you for your follow-up E mail which I received yesterday.

 

From the information provided, it is not clear whether Kingshill are still the legal owners of the alleged debt, it depends what they have done with it. If, for example, they have sold the debt in its entirety to Cabot, then Cabot will become the legal owners of the debt and have a basis for processing your personal data.

 

As they haven't sold the debt to Cabot, does this mean they shouldn't be processing my data ?

 

In general terms, if an individual owes money there must be an expectation that debt administration agencies may become involved. If a debt is sold on, then clearly the third party organisation which purchases the debt needs personal data about the individual concerned in order to pursue the matter further.

 

I would suggest you need to contact both Kingshill and Cabot to establish the current situation. You should ask them to clarify who is currently dealing with the alleged debt and try to bring the matter to a satisfactory conclusion.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Gary Jones

Casework & Advice Officer

I am going to email back in very simple terms ask for a yes / no

[tbern123]

Also... I recieved more fan mail today, from Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

 

Dear Mr tbern123

 

Re: Barclaycard account

 

We write in relation to your letter dated 20 January 2006 in relation to the above account.

 

'We' ???? did they need help to write it.... ?

2006.... Hmmmm easy mistake...

I note from our records that on 20 November 2006 the above referenced Barclaycard account was recalled by Barclaycard and confirm that Cabot no longer hold the account.

 

20 November 2006 ???? It has taken them more then two months to tell me...

Cabot ????? Surely they mean Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd

We are currently investigating your matter further and shall provide you with a response to your letter in due course.

We are currently investigating your matter further

(Cabot code for we don't know what do about you)

Yours sincerely

:idea:

 

Ms Sue Pratt

Customer Auurance Advisor

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

[PriorityOne]

Ms Sue Pratt

 

 

 

 

[tbern123]

 

lol No comment

 

Anyway... Just sent this response to the ICO:

 

 

Dear Mr ICO,

 

Please forgive my prior lack of clarification. They have confirmed in writing that the owner of this debt is Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd and that they have appointed Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd as their agents. Since taking ownership of this debt, all correspondence and copy statements have been sent by Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

 

I appreciate and do not dispute that as the legal owner of the debt Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd have the right to process my personal data. However, my concern is that they have disclosed this personal data to Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd and that they have now commenced with the processing of my personal data.

 

The question, I need answered is:

 

Under the DPA, are Kings Hill (No.1), as a "Data Controller" permitted to disclose personal data (as defined by the DPA) to another "Data Controller", in this instance Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited and for this second "Data Controller" to start processing my personal data without my consent or my knowledge ?

 

I would really appreciate a clear and concise, answer to this question. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your time and assistance in relation to this matter.

 

Regards

 

 

Mr tbern123